[NikkitaZ]

Thanks for the posts, i would go to my local imam's but unfortunately they only speak Urdu (all of them), there is no English speaking Imam within my vicinity. Anyways in my opinion a lot of them are so difficult to contact they may as well be celebrities because they're no use to me (not all off course). The folding up of the sun is actually a metaphor used so there's absolutely nothing wrong with that verse, it is used in relation to circular objects being folded up such as turbans etc. My only issue was the hadith which i'm inclined to think does not exist as nobody can find it.

[CarrieSexy]

Thanks for the posts, i would go to my local imam's but unfortunately they only speak Urdu (all of them), there is no English speaking Imam within my vicinity. Anyways in my opinion a lot of them are so difficult to contact they may as well be celebrities because they're no use to me (not all off course). The folding up of the sun is actually a metaphor used so there's absolutely nothing wrong with that verse, it is used in relation to circular objects being folded up such as turbans etc. My only issue was the hadith which i'm inclined to think does not exist as nobody can find it.

I should add, i received a reply from Mufti Menk earlier through email, so not all well known scholars are difficult to contact.

[TouccuraLar]

My only issue was the hadith ....

not a good attitude


beware of anti-Islam websites, beware of what sources you read about Islam from as human devils write too you know,

remember your first thread and your second etc all are on these type of things?

all refer to stuff that is promoted in wrong ways on many anti-Islam sites to confuse ignorant people.


Allah (SWT) can make a square triangle

He can make planet earth pass through the eye of a needle.

He can roll up the sky and perfectly re-make the long dead people.


There are no laws of nature

apparent physical laws are just His habits

don't get caught up with the illusion of permanence and solidity of the world as it is


It is just temporary

just a dream

one day we will awake to the real existence


prepare for that day and don't get sidetracked with waswisu

[Broorbbub]

not a good attitude


beware of anti-Islam websites, beware of what sources you read about Islam from as human devils write too you know,

remember your first thread and your second etc all are on these type of things?

all refer to stuff that is promoted in wrong ways on many anti-Islam sites to confuse ignorant people.


Allah (SWT) can make a square triangle

He can make planet earth pass through the eye of a needle.

He can roll up the sky and perfectly re-make the long dead people.


There are no laws of nature

apparent physical laws are just His habits

don't get caught up with the illusion of permanence and solidity of the world as it is


It is just temporary

just a dream

one day we will awake to the real existence


prepare for that day and don't get sidetracked with waswisu

No - you're conflating laws of logic with laws of nature. Yes, 'laws' of nature are subject to change, and yes, it's possible for the sun to exist in an ocean.

However, it's never possible for a square triangle to exist - that's a contradiction in terms, and as such, a meaningless statement which doesn't reflect anything outside of your brain.

Maybe you need to review a few 'aqidah texts yourself?

[fiettariaps]

No - you're conflating laws of logic with laws of nature.

Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah wa Barakatuh my brother


be careful that you are not limiting Allah's omnipotence to your 'logic'

Allah is the master of creation not a set of human constructs that you call 'logic'.


"Allah (SWT) is able to do all things" (Holy Quran 2:109)


tell me where in Quran or Hadeeth there is anything at all that limits Allah Almighty's omnipotence to what we humans deem as 'logic'?

tell me where in Quran or Hadeeth there is anything at all that says that Allah Almighty cannot make a square triangle?



However, it's never possible for a square triangle to exist - that's a contradiction in terms, and as such, a meaningless statement which doesn't reflect anything outside of your brain.
you are assuming that this is my idea and it is not something that I have heard from a Sheikh.

[29clepayJainync]

You should post your answer here in this thread.

I should add, i received a reply from Mufti Menk earlier through email, so not all well known scholars are difficult to contact.

[HootSnori]

The text in maariful qur'an saying that the sun will be thrown into the ocean was just one of many interpretations by a past scholar. For all we know, it could be completely wrong.
Nouman Ali khan mentioned in his tafseer that the sun would just be folded up, nothing about it being thrown into the ocean.

Also, aren't the sun and moon supposed to collide on the day of judgment (75:9)? How do we reconcile this with the sun being folded up and thrown into jahannam and/or the ocean?

[Caursedus]

You should post your answer here in this thread.

He replied to a different question. I emailed him earlier regarding this issue, inshAllah he should reply today or tomorrow and then i'l post it.

[Karensmith]

You should post your answer here in this thread.

yes it would be beneficial InshaAllah

[Carfanate]

Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah wa Barakatuh my brother


be careful that you are not limiting Allah's omnipotence to your 'logic'

Allah is the master of creation not a set of human constructs that you call 'logic'.


"Allah (SWT) is able to do all things" (Holy Quran 2:109)


tell me where in Quran or Hadeeth there is anything at all that limits Allah Almighty's omnipotence to what we humans deem as 'logic'?

tell me where in Quran or Hadeeth there is anything at all that says that Allah Almighty cannot make a square triangle?






you are assuming that this is my idea and it is not something that I have heard from a Sheikh.

Infact brother suleiman is right. A square triangle is a logical impossibility and hence it can not exist so the question whether Allah can create a "square triangle" or not is superfluous and meaningless. Even if a person responds to such a question with a NO , it does not effects Allah 's omnipotence as the question is referring to a logical impossibility which can not exist/ Same logical impossibilities are posed in various other questions as well , like "Can God make a stone which he can not lift himself?" , "Can God lie?" etc etc.

[AndreasLV]

Infact brother suleiman is right. A square triangle is a logical impossibility and hence it can not exist so the question whether Allah can create a "square triangle" or not is superfluous and meaningless. Even if a person responds to such a question with a NO , it does not effects Allah 's omnipotence as the question is referring to a logical impossibility which can not exist/ Same logical impossibilities are posed in various other questions as well , like "Can God make a stone which he can not lift himself?" , "Can God lie?" etc etc.

This logic you talk about is something that He created, He is not bound by it like you are.


A square triangle would certainly be a paradoxical shape, but Allah can do anything that befits his Majesty.


Allah cannot make a stone which He cannot lift because it does not befit His Majesty.


Allah cannot lie because it does not befit His Majesty.

[parurorges]

There are three views on this as far as I know


the Zahiri view which is everything means everything

the view that Allah can do anything that is not a logical absurdity

and the view that Allah can do anything that befits his Majesty


all 3 of them have been around for a very long time

and the last two them still exist amongst the Sunnis

there is no point arguing over them


this exchange is non-productive


Allah knows best on these things

[illetrygrargo]

not a good attitude


beware of anti-Islam websites, beware of what sources you read about Islam from as human devils write too you know,

remember your first thread and your second etc all are on these type of things?

all refer to stuff that is promoted in wrong ways on many anti-Islam sites to confuse ignorant people.


Allah (SWT) can make a square triangle

He can make planet earth pass through the eye of a needle.

He can roll up the sky and perfectly re-make the long dead people.


There are no laws of nature

apparent physical laws are just His habits

don't get caught up with the illusion of permanence and solidity of the world as it is


It is just temporary

just a dream

one day we will awake to the real existence


prepare for that day and don't get sidetracked with waswisu

short of the controversial part this is exactly the point


less of this type of thread would be good.


the thread itself shows the need for more Muslim websites to refute the distortions of the online anti-Islam calumny machine.

[varrozans]

This thread reminded me of a hadeeth in which Rasulullah mentioned the sun and the moon will be in jahannam like wrapped cheese.

A tabi'ee (?) heard this from a sahabi and wondered how can the sun and moon with be thrown into jahannam. The sahabi became angry at him for questioning the words of Rasulullah

I don't know the context or full scenario of this hadith (if it is in fact real?)but I find it somewhat strange that people were admonished when asking questions such as this. If the prophet (saw) has been present then I am certain he would have answered the tabiee's question without hesitation but unfortunately the sahabi(ra) seems to be showing anger instead of trying to explain the narration in a pleasant manner.
If this same narration was told to any person nowadays, it is possible that they will ask similar questions as the tabi'ee.

[SallythePearl]

short of the controversial part this is exactly the point


less of this type of thread would be good.


the thread itself shows the need for more Muslim websites to refute the distortions of the online anti-Islam calumny machine.

Ameen - i am ready and raring to go Inshallah for our 'counter hate' project

ps you are right - the accusations these hate sites use are becoming increasingly clever. if there is one thing they are doing, it is forcing us to learn more about our deen so we may safeguard it.

[Vapepreab]

Ameen - i am ready and raring to go Inshallah for our 'counter hate' project

ps you are right - the accusations these hate sites use are becoming increasingly clever. if there is one thing they are doing, it is forcing us to learn more about our deen so we may safeguard it.

yes it is the good side of the issue

they plan a plan - but Allah plots a plot and He is the best of plotters

if you look at history it has often been the challenges thrown at us by the non-Muslims that have inspired Islamic intellectual growth and revival amongst the Muslims

[KatoabamyHant]

I don't know the context or full scenario of this hadith (if it is in fact real?)but I find it somewhat strange that people were admonished when asking questions such as this. If the prophet (saw) has been present then I am certain he would have answered the tabiee's question without hesitation but unfortunately the sahabi(ra) seems to be showing anger instead of trying to explain the narration in a pleasant manner.
If this same narration was told to any person nowadays, it is possible that they will ask similar questions as the tabi'ee.

Well I don't think one can blame the Sahabi (RA) here. If indeed the question was about throwing sun and moon into the hell, Muslims believe there is hell eventhough we do not know how exactly it will be. So the eeman of that Sahabi (RA) made him react like that. When Allah SWT can make hell, He SWT can throw sun, moon or anything of giant size inside in that. We can't sit and imagine how it is possible and that is why he RA reprimanded the questioner I think. Allahu alam

Once our beloved Prophet SAW was narrating something to the companians (RA) and at that time Abu Bakr Siddeeque (RA) and Umar (RA) were not present. The Prophet SAW mentioned about wolves or some animals talking, one of the sahabahs (RA) wondered like, "A wolf talking?" Hearing this, the Prophet SAW said that if Abu Bakr Siddeeque (RA) and Umar (RA) were present here, they would have plainly believed and thus appreciated their eemaan.

Same can be said about the night journey of the Prophet SAW. Today we say it takes billions of light years to reach a particular galaxy in the universe. When Prophet SAW told he SAW travelled to the heavens in a night and came back in the same night, Abu Bakr Siddeeque (RA) belived his SAW words straight away. That is the eemaan. The companions (RA) didnt ask how he SAW could travel and even we believe for we know nothing is impossible for Allah SWT for He SWT is the All able and powerful. Allahu alam

[lymnCymment]

Well I don't think one can blame the Sahabi (RA) here. If indeed the question was about throwing sun and moon into the hell, Muslims believe there is hell eventhough we do not know how exactly it will be. So the eeman of that Sahabi (RA) made him react like that. When Allah SWT can make hell, He SWT can throw sun, moon or anything of giant size inside in that. We can't sit and imagine how it is possible and that is why he RA reprimanded the questioner I think. Allahu alam

Once our beloved Prophet SAW was narrating something to the companians (RA) and at that time Abu Bakr Siddeeque (RA) and Umar (RA) were not present. The Prophet SAW mentioned about wolves or some animals talking, one of the sahabahs (RA) wondered like, "A wolf talking?" Hearing this, the Prophet SAW said that if Abu Bakr Siddeeque (RA) and Umar (RA) were present here, they would have plainly believed and thus appreciated their eemaan.

Same can be said about the night journey of the Prophet SAW. Today we say it takes billions of light years to reach a particular galaxy in the universe. When Prophet SAW told he SAW travelled to the heavens in a night and came back in the same night, Abu Bakr Siddeeque (RA) belived his SAW words straight away. That is the eemaan. The companions (RA) didnt ask how he SAW could travel and even we believe for we know nothing is impossible for Allah SWT for He SWT is the All able and powerful. Allahu alam

Moulana Sulaiman Chowksi (teacher in Madressah Zakariyyah, Lenasia) said once in his bayan that if we had seen the Sahabah 's lifestyle, we would think they are mad, and if they saw our lifestyle, they would think we are munaafiq. The same would apply in the questioning we do of every single thing.

[plantBanceper]

Ameen - i am ready and raring to go Inshallah for our 'counter hate' project

ps you are right - the accusations these hate sites use are becoming increasingly clever. if there is one thing they are doing, it is forcing us to learn more about our deen so we may safeguard it.

My impression is that we too are catching up with them in the sense that they are not getting a walkover in every thing.
Here are few examples. Professor Abdur Raheem Kidwai has been keeping an eye over the English translations of the Noble Qur'an. He remarked that western translations are being published in decreasing frequency - both publication wise as well as new translations. Then take the case of rhetoric against Islam and the Noble Qur'an. Because of people like Maulana Rhamatullah Kairanvi, Wazir Khan, Ahmed Deedat, Zakir Naik and Shabir Ally we do not have outright missionary onslaught in modern times.

What brother AbdurRaheem2 wanted to say to the OP is that it is a futile enterprise to test Qur'an on the scholastic premises. Or even scientific premises. May be he could not put it precisely but the matter of fact remains the same that the original poster should try his best to take the things of faith as a matter of faith. In case he has not developed enough faith on the Noble Qur'an then better thing is to develop that basing his efforts on those aspects that are crystal clear. It is very dangerous to hang your faith on Cryptic Verses (Ayat-e-Mutshabiha).

[Buyemae]

Moulana Sulaiman Chowksi (teacher in Madressah Zakariyyah, Lenasia) said once in his bayan that if we had seen the Sahabah 's lifestyle, we would think they are mad, and if they saw our lifestyle, they would think we are munaafiq. The same would apply in the questioning we do of every single thing.

Are you are implying that anyone who may ask such questions is a munafiq? Has it occurred to you that most reverts would have gone through this sort of questioning in order to gain their imaan? You are obviously born a muslim and take your religion for granted and have never really needed to look for answers. I'm pretty sure that even the sahaba (ra) asked these types of questions before they accepted Islam and probably even afterwards.

You might have a stronger imaan than most people but there will many muslims who will have questions and I would hope decent scholars are willing to give suitable answers without giving them the third degree or putting their imaan into question.