[IRMartin]

why dont you back up each of your views with the quran and sunnah, as this is the only measure that we as muslims should worry about.

if your views cannot be backed up by the quran and sunnah then you have a problem, dont you.

and by quran and sunnah, i dont mean your own particular understanding of quran and sunnah, but the quran and sunnah as understood by the salaf and the scholars of the ahle sunnah wal jamaah.

[lopaayd]

why dont you back up each of your views with the quran and sunnah, as this is the only measure that we as muslims should worry about.

if your views cannot be backed up by the quran and sunnah then you have a problem, dont you.

and by quran and sunnah, i dont mean your own particular understanding of quran and sunnah, but the quran and sunnah as understood by the salaf and the scholars of the ahle sunnah wal jamaah.

[yarita]

Ignorant question:

Nothing wrong with that and he is enlightened and intelligent.

Anyway brother mubakr why do you care so much about deobandees view of you. I mean like who are they, you should only seek Allah's s.w.t approval and Prophet Muhammad's {pbuh}

Matter of fact reply:

They are the people who, in the middle of very adverse circumstances, decided that they shall give priority to protect the teachings of Islam and devoted not merely a life time but whole generations to the task. The end product is the Deoband interpretation of Islam - for whole world to see, observe and adopt in their life. And to take it further from there.

It seems like the post 9/11 scenario of Islam, the more they tried to smite it with lies, the more the truth about it became manifest Allahumma barik fihee.

why dont you back up each of your views with the quran and sunnah, as this is the only measure that we as muslims should worry about.

if your views cannot be backed up by the quran and sunnah then you have a problem, dont you.

and by quran and sunnah, i dont mean your own particular understanding of quran and sunnah, but the quran and sunnah as understood by the salaf and the scholars of the ahle sunnah wal jamaah.

I concur.

The thing about muhasabah is there's more accountability of oneself and less focus on others. I don't think you have to concern yourself with getting acceptance from Deobandiyyah during your self reflection. Rather look at the points you've raised and see what the majority of other traditional Ulama say regarding them.

Otherwise the OP's post can be taken as setting up to play the victim, hope that's not the intention.

You sure have an eye for detail bro

[wgX44EEn]

May Allah increase us in knowledge so that we become better Muslims. Aameen.

The only approval we should seek is that of Allah and that of his nabi . Are we going to be those who even the noble Rasool is going to reject at the hawdh? Are we going to be among those whose graves are going to be tightened and constricted? Or are we among those whose graves will be widened and windows to jannah will be opened within them? Are we among those who Rasoolullah would pour us the water from the hawdh?

[Hokimjers]

JazakAllah khair everyone for the feedback. Very helpful feedback. I ask deobandi views because this forum is deobandi and I use them as a benchmark since I can understand spoken urdu to some extent/find them sincere and generally academically sound/grandpa was devoted Tablighi, brother is very pro-tablighi. I also wanted to know an overall assessment of my views from a core Ahlus-Sunnah group. And I want to test the waters and analyse how one of the most conservative Muslim groups views a person who holds such views.

I am quite happy with the above views I listed from my own understanding of Quran and Sunnah at this stage and as I said dont hold them controversial and have always wondered why people are ready to dismiss everything one has to say, which happens to quite often, because of certain views a Muslim holds which if the dismissers go and do a detailed analysis of these topics themselves have quite significant skepticism of what the real truth is but dont make that skepticism manifest.

For example, some people and I am sure most genuinely dont believe that a 1 minute music tune for example not associated with the slightest degenerate lyrics or images invites the anger of Allah and sinfulness accumulates.

Most of this 'controversial views' actually are views which are not controversial and have no explicit haram basis in Quran and Sunnah which some people so confidently exclaim (I am making this statement at this stage, I am ready to revise my views if I get a certain evidence and hidayat from Allah about the views) Everyone if engages in detail scrutiny and reflection will be skeptic and say Allahu'Alam, and least say, I cant make a definite judgement, I am just playing safe and unsure thats why I hold these views.

I am not trying to make this thread about myself. It helps me reflect but it is also to encourage freedom of views and ikhtilaf in Ummah around certain issues and acceptance, tolerance and respect of members who hold these. No one is asking to accept Irshad Manji. But harunyahya, hamza yusuf, tariq ramadhan, suheib webb and many other scholars and many many laypeople keep on getting criticized to the extent that some people avoid them totally. If we keep on dismissing people on every unclear view point I mentioned we will have a very fragmented ummah. And infact it will even isolate deoband scholarship and ilm if deobandi supporters batilize these scholars since some people more attuned to the scholars views will avoid deoband because they are continuously criticizing harshly these scholars.

[Farson]

The problem is, some scholars should remain quiet in areas that they are not experts in. For example, some Deobandi ulama suggest that the beard is wajib/fardh according to the Shafi'i madhhab, when that is one view within the madhhab, not the primary, contemporary view. For this, these scholars are lambasted.

An example is that of Shaykh Hamza Yusuf and his talks about the Qadianis. There is unanimity on the kufr of the Qadianis, whether they be the Lahori jamat or otherwise. All the scholars in the subcontinent, from the Ahle Hadees to the Jamat-e-Islami to the Barelvis to the Deobandis are all united on their takfeer of the Qadianis, both Lahoris and non-Lahoris. Sh Hamza Yusuf then suggests that the Lahori jamat cannot be called kaafir when he has little knowledge on this subject.

For example, we in North America know about the "Nation of Islam" and how they believe that some guy was a manifestation of god and other such nonsense. If a scholar from India who is not completely familiar with NOI beliefs suggests that NOI are Muslims, would he be right or should he be corrected? If some people blindly follow this scholar, they would be misguided into believing that NOI are Muslims. There are a LOT of people who follow Shaykh Hamza Yusuf and are not familiar with the status of the Qadianis and when something like this is mentioned, they would get confused and accept the Lahoris as Muslims.

In case you're wondering, the kufr of the Lahoris lies in the fact that they accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani as a mujaddid, let alone a Muslim, when it is historically proven that he claimed prophethood. They also do not see someone who believes in MGA's prophethood as a kaafir, which itself is kufr (i.e. to say that a kaafir is a Muslim is itself kufr). This latter point can also be used against the Shi'a, where some claim to not believe in the tahreef of the Qur'an but they do not say that someone who believes in tahreef is a kaafir because a lot of their great scholars did believe in tahreef and if a Shi'a says that if someone believes in tahreef of the Qur'an is a kaafir, he has just made takfeer of many famous Shi'a personalities.

[replicajoy]

May Allah guide you, me and us all to the straight path. Ameen.

I will bow out of this conversation - a brother called it what it is and others gave some excellent advice, there really is nothing more to say (at least on my part).

[SHUSIATULSE]

And infact it will even isolate deoband scholarship and ilm if deobandi supporters batilize these scholars since some people more attuned to the scholars views will avoid deoband because they are continuously criticizing harshly these scholars.

Some advice. Deobandi's are very comfortable on an island all by themselves if it comes to that. In fact, they are so convinced in their ways that they hand out merit badges for such a thing. I would worry less about what will happen to Deoband, and more about learning about the intellectual and scholarly legacy of Islam. Focus on figuring out what sources of knowledge are worthy of your following. When you've determined those streams of knowledge, those schools, those scholars ... stick with them and hold fast.

I would suggest reading the following works as part of your investigation, if you haven't already:

http://www.abumohammed.muftisays.com...ingAMadhab.pdf
http://www.binoria.org/ebooks/Author...TaqiUsmani.pdf