[k5wTvu9f]

Where would people schooled and inspired by deobandi views rate me on a "deobandi scale of an ideal Muslim" from 0-10. 0 is according to deobandi wisdom totally errant Muslim and misguided fool versus ten following the salaf and sahaba, tabi'in and great classical Muslim greats.

Many of the below views I have received trouble from alot of Muslims and called liberal, modernist, changing sunnah and Islam e.t.c. Someone basically in conclusion people say I am not worthy of listening opinions too.

These are the things which people find extremely controversial and I basically just feel passive and find the controversy non-existant or non-important.

1. I believe in the modern nation state for administrative purposes but believe the boundaries are just arbitrary and an Islamic Union needs to be emergently formed.
2. I believe in modernization aspirations for society - I admire the west for its science/technology, infrastructure, relative lack of corruption, commendable administraion systems including many governmental concepts and nothing else do I see of exciting value. I dont need to talk about things in the west I dislike or am averse too.
3. I believe in Islamic democracy and am not averse to the idea of laicism in government
4. I believe health, food and education in basic form are universal priorities which ALL muslims need to be provided with. Following that belief: I believe taxation is justifiable by a nation until the whole Ummah -country joins in a union and nation resources and zakat is distributed across borders.
5. I believe not all music is haram and it has occassional benefit and feeling good to good music is not haram. I feel I am allowed to dance occassionally also in an appropriate setting.
6. I believe in free consience based choices rather than forcing strict adherence to law. Law should regulate environment and society but not impose and execute punishments until and unless Islam has enfolded people in spirit like the medina polity. Then Quranic and sahih hadith statutes can be made law.
7. I believe women should work in society and have an important role to play in both dunya and religious affairs. Men however are more important in that dunya-work aspect. However women can be teachers, doctors and other proffessions of modern day. I interact with such women both Muslims and non-Muslims.
8. I take and watch videos and photographs. I dont see any wrong in that.
9. I believe in compromising for unity purposes. Even shia-sunni unity is possible if shia's compromise on two basic mischief - tehreef of quran and cursing sahabas.
10. I believe in Abrahamic unity. Muslims should look after christian and jews and not hate them and seek their destruction. More unpopularly, I recognize the history of jews both recent and ancient and acknowledege that Palestine/Israel has to be shared with Jews. Jerusalam should be Muslim run though.
11. I believe milad-un Nabi is unneccessary but perfectly ok.
12. I believe salafi's are good people, academic but errant in a few subject.
13. I believe Islamic revival is going at an unprecedent rate.
14. I think the Turks will lead the Muslim world again this century.
15. I believe that Harun yahya is a magnificent and the finest Muslim of recent times.
16. I consider myself fully affiliated to AhlusSunnah Wal Jamah and feel connected to the community enlightened by men like Imam Ghazali, Bediuzzam, Abu Hanifa, Imam Rabbani and all other scholarly gems of Ahlus Sunnah.
17. I think deobandi ilm and scholarship is very good and tries its best to be true to tradition. Sincerity is unquestionable.
18. I feel beard's are strongly recommended, an Islamic sunnah, but not an obligation.
19. I feel women who dont wear hijab should be given benefit of doubt as good Muslims and initial judgement not biased on that factor.
20. I believe Taliban, al-qaeda, al-shabab are severely flawed Muslims who have got things severely wrong.
21. I believe only in defensive G!had.
22. I wear shirt, trouser, belts, t-shirts, jeans. I avoid shorts.
23. Foremost is that a Union be formed of todays Muslim nations and most problems will start to sort themselves. However no need to change things radically. Just an honest, sincere pledge and pushed by people of the 50 or so Muslim majority nations that we want a strong union of brotherhood and practical economic and societal links and trade.
24. I believe in everything else - prayer, quran, fasting, zakat, qadr, day of judgement, angels, enjoing good, forbidding evil, all basic morals of Islam, pursuing excellence in character, charity, race for goodness, ilm seeking, following the salaf, excellence of sunnah - miswak, white dress, cleanliness, beard keeping, evil of riba/usury.

SO Where am I on the 'Muslim status according to deoband score? Please reply so that I can look more into these things. Because I feel I have already firmly thought these things and issues.

[sbrpkkl]

I'm not Deobandi so I will not answer your question, but really brother do you think Harun Yahya is the finest Muslim of modern times?

[mensforyouthis]

I'm not Deobandi so I will not answer your question, but really brother do you think Harun Yahya is the finest Muslim of modern times?

Brother I dont want to debate each point and cause argumentation in this thread. Its just a feedback and personal development/reflection question.

Actually let me rephrase my scale

Where am I on the "ideal Muslim scale according to deoband"?

0 is according to deobandi wisdom totally errant Muslim and misguided fool
versus
10 that the points do not in ANY way interfere with the authenticity of Islam. As long as I am firm on Islamic essentials belief in the above has not compromised my Deen.

I want to know this because lets say according to most people on this sunni forum I get score range of 0-5 and they believe that I have completely lost the plot by believing in these things then I need to go on a spiritual re-treat and go through all these things again because I feel my mind is set on these things. I enjoy alot of arguments by brothers AbuZakir, Usama and many other brothers and feel they make excellent points but I feel my beliefs are the right thing for the Ummah at this stage and I am keen to propagate them because I feel Muslims will progress and these beliefs are Islamically valid and legitimate. I also intend in the near future to set up a youtube channel participating in dawah and expressing my views. So I really need to prepare and be true to the teachings of Islam. And I need to know whether these views would compromise the Deen of people or they are neutral beliefs which any reasonable, educated and modern Muslim can hold as a matter of difference(ikhtilaf) and still be within the realm of Sunnah.

[infinkPoode]

NO such type of rating exists. And I don't understand whats the benefit to bring Deoband here.

Listen Mr., keep your erroneous self defined Islam in yourself, there is no need to propagate it. Your views are similar to that of Mr. Auzer. May Allaah guide you and your parallel mates.

P.S.: Please read my signature and this is the opinion of every rightly guided muslims.

[agracias]

You need get rid of the "I" "I" "I""I" you see "I" symbolises that "I" am very enlightened and "I" am very Intelligent, therefore "I" think my world view and perspective is right for the ummah and "I" want to see if anyone can change "my" mind because " "I" dont think "I" really need to change. "I" believe those who dont agree with my views perhaps need to change there views.

[Lån-Penge]

You need get rid of the "I" "I" "I""I" you see "I" symbolises that "I" am very enlightened and "I" am very Intelligent, therefore "I" think my world view and perspective is right for the ummah and "I" want to see if anyone can change "my" mind because " "I" dont think "I" really need to change. "I" believe those who dont agree with my views perhaps need to change there views.

Its better to use 'I', then to say Islam says that. In that way any deficiencies in me are not reflected upon Islam. I am a lay person interested in being a middle man between the scholars and the inactive people and I am determined for Islam to flourish. I am not a scholar to start talking about ISlam as if that is what Islam is exclusively about. The 'I' seals that its 'my' opinion and 'my' learning, reading and understanding. Also you didnt see what I wrote. Its a self-reflective/personal development question. Thanks for the feedback regardless.

[royarnekara]

I believe in the modern nation state for administrative purposes but believe the boundaries are just arbitrary and an Islamic Union needs to be emergently formed.
.
FAIR ENOUGH, BETTER TO BE TOGETHER THOUGH, NATIONS CAN BE JAHILYYAH - BETTER TOGETHER AS THE UMMAH
.
I believe in modernization aspirations for society - I admire the west for its science/technology, infrastructure, relative lack of corruption, commendable administraion systems including many governmental concepts and nothing else do I see of exciting value. I dont need to talk about things in the west I dislike or am averse too.
.
MAKES SENSE. I SUSPECT THAT MANY DEOBANDIS WOULD AGREE WITH YOU.
.
I believe in Islamic democracy and am not averse to the idea of laicism in government
.
SO LONG AS THAT ISLAMIC DEMOCRACY IS 100% LIMITED BY THE PERIMETERS OF THE SHARIAH THERE'S NOTHING WRING WITH THAT IN MY BOOK. PERHAPS THIS IS A DEOBANDI NEUTRAL ISSUE.
.
I believe health, food and education in basic form are universal priorities which ALL muslims need to be provided with. Following that belief: I believe taxation is justifiable by a nation until the whole Ummah -country joins in a union and nation resources and zakat is distributed across borders.
.
FAIR ENOUGH. I SUSPECT THAT MANY DEOBANDIS WOULD AGREE WITH YOU.
.
I believe not all music is haram and it has occassional benefit and feeling good to good music is not haram. I feel I am allowed to dance occassionally also in an appropriate setting.
.
NOT VERY GOOD ON THE DEOBANDI SCORE THERE. SOME SCHOLARS SAY THAT TOO, BUT NOT MOST OF THEM. DANCING ISN'T A GOOD IDEA, WHY NOT LEARN TAI CHI IF YOU WANT TO MOVE IN A NICE WAY?
.
I believe in free consience based choices rather than forcing strict adherence to law. Law should regulate environment and society but not impose and execute punishments until and unless Islam has enfolded people in spirit like the medina polity. Then Quranic and sahih hadith statutes can be made law.
.
THATS QUESTIONABLE IN SOME WAYS. I THINK THAT MAYBE THERE ARE A RANGE OF VIEWS ON THIS ISSUE AMONGST THE BROAD RANGE OF PEOPLE AND SCHOLARS WHO HAVE AFFILIATION TO DARUL ULOOM DEOBAND AND ITS SCHOOL OF THOUGHT.
.
I believe women should work in society and have an important role to play in both dunya and religious affairs. Men however are more important in that dunya-work aspect. However women can be teachers, doctors and other proffessions of modern day. I interact with such women both Muslims and non-Muslims.
.
BETTER TO AVOID THEM WHERE YOU CAN, BETTER FOR THEM TO MARRY AND BE HOME MAKERS, WORKING WOMEN WHO ARE OLDER IS LESS OF A PROBLEM. SO NOT VERY GOOD ON THE DEOBANDI SCORE THERE THEN.
.
I take and watch videos and photographs. I dont see any wrong in that.
.
DEOBANDIS AND A LOT OF SCHOLARS ARE AGAINST THAT. NOT VERY GOOD ON THE DEOBANDI SCORE THERE THEN. BUT THAT SAID SOME SCHOLARS PERMIT IT THOUGH.
.
I believe in compromising for unity purposes. Even shia-sunni unity is possible if shia's compromise on two basic mischief - tehreef of quran and cursing sahabas.
.
THEY (TWELVERS) DO MORE MISCHIEF THAN THOSE TWO, DON'T TRUST THEM. ZAYDIS ARE OK THOUGH, UNLESS THE RAFIDITES BRAINWASH THEM. NOT VERY GOOD ON THE DEOBANDI SCORE THERE AS DEOBANDIS DO NOT CONSIDER THE RAFIDITES TO BE MUSLIMS DUE TO A NUMBER OF THEIR BELIEFS.
.
I believe in Abrahamic unity. Muslims should look after christian and jews and not hate them and seek their destruction. More unpopularly, I recognize the history of jews both recent and ancient and acknowledege that Palestine/Israel has to be shared with Jews. Jerusalam should be Muslim run though.
.
ISRAELIS HAVE MUCH EUROPEAN AND TURK BLOOD, THEY BELONG IN AND DESERVE PALESTINE NO MORE THAN THE CELTS DESERVE EUROPE BACK AND FAR LESS THAN THE AMERICAN INDIANS DESERVE AMERICA OR AUSTRALIAN ABORIGINES DESERVE AUSTRALIA. PALESTINE BELONGS TO THE MUSLIMS, JEWS CAN LIVE THERE AS DHIMMI CITIZENS, BUT THEY MUST GIVE BACK ALL STOLEN LAND AND PROPERTY. I SUSPECT THAT YOU ARE NOT VERY GOOD ON THE DEOBANDI SCORE THERE.
.
I believe milad-un Nabi is unneccessary but perfectly ok.
.
ITS NOT ACCORDING TO DEOBANDIS, BUT IS ACCORDING TO MANY SCHOLARS WHERE IT DOES NOT INVOLVE EXCESSES OR SIN.
.
I believe salafi's are good people, academic but errant in a few subject.
.
DEOBANDIS GENERALLY DO NOT, BUT AT ONE TIME THEY GENERALLY DID. PERSONALLY I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT THOUGH.
.
I believe Islamic revival is going at an unprecedent rate.
.
ALHAMDULILLAH.
.
I think the Turks will lead the Muslim world again this century.
.
MAYBE, MAYBE NOT. DEOBANDI NEUTRAL ISSUE I WOULD SAY.
.
I believe that Harun yahya is a magnificent and the finest Muslim of recent times.
.
I LIKE HIM, BUT I THINK HE HAS LOST HIS MIND OR IS DISSIMULATING. EITHER WAY HE HAS LOST MY TRUST. I DON'T KNOW WHAT DEOBANDIS WOULD SAY BUT I KNOW THAT THEY WOULD NOT APPROVE OF HIS TV SHOW.
.
I consider myself fully affiliated to AhlusSunnah Wal Jamah and feel connected to the community enlightened by men like Imam Ghazali, Bediuzzam, Abu Hanifa, Imam Rabbani and all other scholarly gems of Ahlus Sunnah.
.
10 OUT OF 10 ON THE DEOBANDI SCORE THERE THEN.
.
I think deobandi ilm and scholarship is very good and tries its best to be true to tradition. Sincerity is unquestionable.
.
10 OUT OF 10 ON THE DEOBANDI SCORE THERE TOO, BUT NOT IF YOU ARE SAYING YOU DISAGREE WITH THEM ON MANY ISSUES.
.
I feel beard's are strongly recommended, an Islamic sunnah, but not an obligation.
.
NOT VERY GOOD ON THE DEOBANDI SCORE THERE THEN.
.
I feel women who dont wear hijab should be given benefit of doubt as good Muslims and initial judgement not biased on that factor.
.
NOT VERY GOOD ON THE DEOBANDI SCORE THERE THEN.
.
I believe Taliban, al-qaeda, al-shabab are severely flawed Muslims who have got things severely wrong.
.
SOME DEOBANDIS THINK THAT TOO, THEY HAVE A RANGE OF VIEWS YOU KNOW.
.
I believe only in defensive G!had.
.
THERE ARE DIFFERENT VIEWS ON THAT, SOME STRONGLY HAVE THE OPPOSITE VIEW.
.
I wear shirt, trouser, belts, t-shirts, jeans. I avoid shorts.
.
NOT VERY GOOD ON THE DEOBANDI SCORE THERE THEN. BETTER TO WEAR MUSLIM CLOTHES.
.
Foremost is that a Union be formed of todays Muslim nations and most problems will start to sort themselves. However no need to change things radically. Just an honest, sincere pledge and pushed by people of the 50 or so Muslim majority nations that we want a strong union of brotherhood and practical economic and societal links and trade.
.
GOOD IDEA. DEOBANDI NEUTRAL I WOULD SAY.
.
I believe in everything else - prayer, quran, fasting, zakat, qadr, day of judgement, angels, enjoing good, forbidding evil, all basic morals of Islam, pursuing excellence in character, charity, race for goodness, ilm seeking, following the salaf, excellence of sunnah - miswak, white dress, cleanliness, beard keeping, evil of riba/usury.
.
GOOD ON THAT POINT THEN[/LIST].

SO Where am I on the 'Muslim status according to deoband score? Please reply so that I can look more into these things. Because I feel I have already firmly thought these things and issues.

NOT ALL THAT GOOD I SUSPECT.

THAT SAID WORRY ABOUT ALLAH NOT DEOBANDIS OR ANY OTHER SCHOLASTIC AFFILIATION. WHAT DO YOU THINK ALLAH THINKS ABOUT YOUR VIEWS. DO YOU THINK THERE ARE ANY HE MAY BE DISPLEASED WITH?

YOU SEEM TO ME MORE OF A TARIQ RAMADAN MAN. IF YOU WANT TO BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STRAIGHT PATH I THINK YOU NEED TO MODIFY YOUR VIEWS ON SOME OF THESE THINGS BROTHER

[Loonakind]

Brother Mubakr, masha'Allah - we could all use some self-reflection like this. By the way, going through this exercise tells me that your mind is not as set on the items as you say... it seems to me you are on your "spiritual re-treat" (as we should always be) to review those things and may Allah give me and us all the tawfiq to do the same. Masha'Allah brother, identifying issues is the first step. May Allah give us the ability to see those areas that are grey just as much as He gives us the ability to see the clear difference between right and wrong, and may He give us the ability to address each in order that we may earn His Pleasure. Ameen.

JazakAllah khayran for sharing here.

[elossenen]

Brother Mubakr, masha'Allah - we could all use some self-reflection like this. By the way, going through this exercise tells me that your mind is not as set on the items as you say... it seems to me you are on your "spiritual re-treat" (as we should always be) to review those things and may Allah give me and us all the tawfiq to do the same. Masha'Allah brother, identifying issues is the first step. May Allah give us the ability to see those areas that are grey just as much as He gives us the ability to see the clear difference between right and wrong, and may He give us the ability to address each in order that we may earn His Pleasure. Ameen.

JazakAllah khayran for sharing here.

I agree. Brother is on self-inspection trip and this is a very Islamic thing to do.

[Hedkffiz]

Where am I on the "ideal Muslim scale according to deoband"?

0 is according to deobandi wisdom totally errant Muslim and misguided fool
versus
10 that the points do not in ANY way interfere with the authenticity of Islam. As long as I am firm on Islamic essentials belief in the above has not compromised my Deen.

You're a 0. When it comes to Deobandi's, you can get a 0 for something as "small" as considering intentionally lowering your trousers beneath your ankles to be not sinful - let alone the stuff you listed.

udkhuloo fi al-silmee kaaffaa is their motto.

You asked for it bro, just serving it straight up for ya.

[usaneisfiecup]

The thing about muhasabah is there's more accountability of oneself and less focus on others. I don't think you have to concern yourself with getting acceptance from Deobandiyyah during your self reflection. Rather look at the points you've raised and see what the majority of other traditional Ulama say regarding them.

Otherwise the OP's post can be taken as setting up to play the victim, hope that's not the intention.

[intorkercet]

I have a problem with 1,2, and 3 on your list, and on 24, you say 'evil of riba/usury' yet you consider 'Islamic' Banks halal and you think there in little corruption in the west.

Its not for me to label you.

[Lapsinuibense]

You need get rid of the "I" "I" "I""I" you see "I" symbolises that "I" am very enlightened and "I" am very Intelligent, therefore "I" think my world view and perspective is right for the ummah and "I" want to see if anyone can change "my" mind because " "I" dont think "I" really need to change. "I" believe those who dont agree with my views perhaps need to change there views.

Nothing wrong with that and he is enlightened and intelligent.

Anyway brother mubakr why do you care so much about deobandees view of you. I mean like who are they, you should only seek Allah's s.w.t approval and Prophet Muhammad's {pbuh}

[tutkarussia]

Anyway brother mubakr why do you care so much about deobandees view of you. I mean like who are they, ...

They are the people who, in the middle of very adverse circumstances, decided that they shall give priority to protect the teachings of Islam and devoted not merely a life time but whole generations to the task. The end product is the Deoband interpretation of Islam - for whole world to see, observe and adopt in their life. And to take it further from there.

[AttableBewNaw]

I'm not interested in an ethnocentric cultural interpretation of Islam whether they are from the Gulf or S.Asia or Malaysia etc etc. I believe in a universal interpretation of Islam.

[estuapped]

I'm not interested in an ethnocentric cultural interpretation of Islam whether they are from the Gulf or S.Asia or Malaysia etc etc. I believe in a universal interpretation of Islam.

How or in what ways is it ethnocentric I thought their Islam in universal?

[leijggigf]

I'm not interested in an ethnocentric cultural interpretation of Islam whether they are from the Gulf or S.Asia or Malaysia etc etc. I believe in a universal interpretation of Islam.

And how exactly is there interpretation cultural sister?

[Acrogeokickic]

Its better to use 'I', then to say Islam says that. In that way any deficiencies in me are not reflected upon Islam. I am a lay person interested in being a middle man between the scholars and the inactive people and I am determined for Islam to flourish. I am not a scholar to start talking about ISlam as if that is what Islam is exclusively about. The 'I' seals that its 'my' opinion and 'my' learning, reading and understanding. Also you didnt see what I wrote. Its a self-reflective/personal development question. Thanks for the feedback regardless.

Apologies for misunderstanding, may Allah give you success.

[Vzkdgdqx]

I'm not interested in an ethnocentric cultural interpretation of Islam whether they are from the Gulf or S.Asia or Malaysia etc etc. I believe in a universal interpretation of Islam.

Please don't attribute your limited and faulty understanding on everyone. We'll be asked on the day of resurrection, so we should be careful about our opinions. Can you bring any solid proof on the favour of your claim that Deoband interprets Islam from cultural or ethnical perspective?

[errolespopume]

U
Get a -7 for kufr, shia sunni w t ***