[Vulkanevsel]

Hi everyone!

Yet another one of those newbie stalling questions, so I apologise, but I was hoping you could give me some advice and/or reassurance.

I started VLCD on 2nd Oct and lost 4.6# in the first four days on protocol, but have been stalled/gaining the last four days as you can see from the record of my weights in my sig. All my meals are recorded in the spreadsheet linked in my sig too, although I haven't included the cajun spice mix I use (checked - definitely no sugar listed) and lemon juice/fresh herbs/garlic with my dinner. Generally though, my meals have been:

Breakfast - black coffee
Lunch - 3.5oz crab meat or 3.5oz prawns + lettuce
Dinner - 3.5oz pollock (white fish) + either 200g onions or ~200g spinach
Snack - 300g stewed apple (homemade, prepared by cooking apples in a bit of water, no sugar added and I portioned it out so that one serving was the same amount of calories/carbs as a medium apple ie I am only having one fruit a day)

I don't eat meat but do eat fish, which limits my choices somewhat. I also can't get hold of the melba toasts/breadsticks where I am in the UK, but I don't want to eat them anyway really.

I drink only black coffee, sweetened with saccharin - probably 1-1.5litres per day, and 2-2.5 litres pure water per day

I was feeling a little hungry for my first few days but the last couple of days I've just been eating my meals even though I'm not hungry. Last night I also used a Smooth Move tea which made me lose a little bit again, but my inches haven't changed during the length of this stall either.

If anyone has an suggestions as to what I can do to break the stall, then I'm all ears! The only thing that I can think of is that I might be ovulating right now, with my last day today (but my cycle is super irregular so who knows!) and so it is perhaps water retention. How long do stalls due to ovulation normally last? Do they normally end at the same time as ovulation?

Thanks again (sorry for the long post)

[QwOpHGyZ]

Now on day 5 of no loss - still at 125.8...

[Seisyvose]

Now on day 5 of no loss - still at 125.8...

It is frustrating, I know.

My 2 cents. Can you vary your menu somewhat? A little variety could shake things up a bit.

Both constipation and TOM can cause stalls or gains. In those cases, you can just ride it out, drinking more water, and use either magnesium citrate and/or Smooth Move/senna tea for the bowels.

For encouragement, re-read Dr. Simeon's explanation of stalls in the protocol.

Stay on track. It will pass! We've all been there.

[Adamanta]

Thanks for replying with the encouragement, itsy! If nothing else, just a bit of support makes it a bit more bearable...especially because I'm getting to the point where I would kill someone for a PepsiMax (my one true vice...although that said I haven't craved it at all until today)

I agree with your suggestion about varying my menu, but I guess I'm just a bit nervous to because a lot of the things on there that I would eat seem to cause stalls for a lot of people (strawberries, oranges, eggs, cabbage etc. etc.) but I'll try out some new stuff today.

I had actually thought that I might be drinking too much water/fluid - probably about 4 litres so I'm not sure if that's having any negative impact, although I doubt it.

I'm taking the senna tea daily. I don't think I'm near TOM cos I had my two loading days just after my last period finished, so I suspect ovulation is a possibility but I have never even considered water retention at this point in my cycle so I have no idea how it affects me.

Thanks again!

[cookiemonster]

300 grams of apple at once (especially if in the evening) seems to be way too much in my opinion. That is more than a "medium" apple. That is over 150 calories with about 40 carbs with 30 of those from sugar. A medium apple is about 2 3/4 inches and you would be eating no more than about 150 grams which would be half the calories and carbs. I think medium throws us off because these days most apples are pumped up and huge, so a medium apple back in the time this was created would likely be what we would look at as a small apple now. If you have looked at organic apples (or apples people have on trees in their yard) you will notice they are about half the size of the freakishly big ones that are all waxed up at the store.

I would say if you are going to stick with apples than I would make sure 300 grams is broke up between both meals. While this diet is not specifically a no carb diet, keeping your glycemic index constant is something that happens when following protocol. 30 sugar carbs at once would be a considerable spike.

I personally don't do apples. Even at the protocol serving size they tend to stall me. I mostly cut out my fruits all together and if I do feel hungry enough to need one (which I think some people eat them because they can, not because they are hungry and need them) I seem to do better with grapefruit.


Edited to say - I see you say you portioned it out so I assume that means no more than about 150 grams. I would still try a different fruit though. Stewed apples killed me the 2nd week!

[Kneedycrype]

Ah OK. I thought that apples were the better choice from the list based on what others have said on this forum with regards to stalling. I tend to portion out 300g (30g carbs, 95 calories - it's made with extra water and a variety of cooking apple which is lower in carbs and cals than a regular eating apple) and eat it throughout the day as a snack. I could probably cut it out, if I'm honest, but I guess they are the 'highlight' of my meal. Stewed apples have been a real comfort food for me since I was a child! And I thought that since I lost so well with them in the first few days that they would be alright, but I guess I might have to cut them out to see if that helps

I have just had lunch - 60g prawns and 120g lettuce and I feel so stuffed I might explode. I can't see me wanting to eat any dinner at this rate - is that bad? I wasn't hungry for lunch but at about 3pm I thought I should probably eat something as I'd been out at lectures and walking around university, but it was almost impossible!

Thank you for your input

[SantaGanstag]

I am the same way. I am not hungry a lot of the time and have to push myself to eat. I always be sure to get in my protiens, but skip on fruits most the time, and sometimes one of my veggies too. My book says is it fine to not do all of the 500 or to skip things in the case you are not hungry. I am trying to watch this though because my weight gain is mainly due to the fact I have no issues going a day or two without eating and then I store eveything I eventually do eat. I really wrecked my metabolism that way. I never tend to be all that hungry and I have never been a big eater.

I would try to get away from the apples just for a few days to see if it makes a difference. If they are a little bit of a crutch or comfort to you I wouldn't ditch them all together since you might be more inclined to cheat on something much worse!

I personally seem to be extra sensitive to the higher carb things we can have though (mostly apples and tomatoes are another one I have to be careful with). I figure maybe it has something to do with the fact that I also have gestational diabetes when pregnant so maybe I just don't handle sugar well.

Water is my other issue. I will do great getting my 2-3 liters in (I usually do not drink much of anything). Those days I lose great. Then I slack on getting my water down and that is another thing that stalls me pretty badly.

Lastly, how tall are you? Could you be getting close to a healthy weight? HCG should quit working at a healthy weight. Sometimes there is a bit of a difference on where you think you should be and where your body thinks it should be.

[mplawssix]

I am the same way. I am not hungry a lot of the time and have to push myself to eat. I always be sure to get in my protiens, but skip on fruits most the time, and sometimes one of my veggies too. My book says is it fine to not do all of the 500 or to skip things in the case you are not hungry. I am trying to watch this though because my weight gain is mainly due to the fact I have no issues going a day or two without eating and then I store eveything I eventually do eat. I really wrecked my metabolism that way. I never tend to be all that hungry and I have never been a big eater.

That bolded bit - that is me to an absolute T!

I would try to get away from the apples just for a few days to see if it makes a difference. If they are a little bit of a crutch or comfort to you I wouldn't ditch them all together since you might be more inclined to cheat on something much worse!

Will try to do this the next couple of days. After all, a couple of days isn't going to kill me and it might make a difference so it's worth a shot.

I personally seem to be extra sensitive to the higher carb things we can have though (mostly apples and tomatoes are another one I have to be careful with). I figure maybe it has something to do with the fact that I also have gestational diabetes when pregnant so maybe I just don't handle sugar well.

I suspect this sensitivity to sugar may apply to me too...which sucks cos I have a killer sweet tooth! Even if it is just fruit!

Water is my other issue. I will do great getting my 2-3 liters in (I usually do not drink much of anything). Those days I lose great. Then I slack on getting my water down and that is another thing that stalls me pretty badly.

I'm normally pretty good with this. I drink about 2-2.5litres water and a LOT of black coffee because I need the hot drinks to keep me warm. So I'm hitting 3-4 litres minimum every day I think.

Lastly, how tall are you? Could you be getting close to a healthy weight? HCG should quit working at a healthy weight. Sometimes there is a bit of a difference on where you think you should be and where your body thinks it should be.

I'm 5'4, so my BMI is about 21.7 I think. But I'm very much one of those 'skinnyfat' people you hear about - wreck your metabolism by crash dieting, put it all back on as fat (plus extra) when you aren't crash dieting. I think my body fat percentage is around 27-28%, so quite high. I'm mainly trying to 'reset' my metabolism with the hCG. But I am definitely not at a normal weight for my usual standard - I used to weigh 115 comfortably (at about 20% body fat) but put on about 15lbs last year that I just can't shift despite eating hardly anything and exercising.

Thanks for all your considerate and thoughtful suggestions and responses!

[horoshevapola]

Up to 127.2 today - I could have cried! I did have eggs last night in a bid to change things up a bit but maybe that caused it?

Today is the first day of really cutting down on the apple (hoping to cut it out completely) but the urge to just give in is really becoming quite hard to resist.

[arcalmanard]

Up to 127.2 today - I could have cried! I did have eggs last night in a bid to change things up a bit but maybe that caused it?

Today is the first day of really cutting down on the apple (hoping to cut it out completely) but the urge to just give in is really becoming quite hard to resist.

Sorry to hear you gained.

A few things to consider:

1. Eggs are not on the protocol due to the fat content in the yolk. I suggest that if you want to change things, you cut out the stewed fruit, have a raw apple instead, and increase the protocol protein. It is possible that by cooking the apple you are losing out on the enzymes that might benefit you.

2. At 5'4" normal weight for you is 120, give or take a couple of pounds for frame size. Are you ravenous? Plus, it is always slow going when close to the ideal range.

3. At this weight, even though the muscle/fat ratio is not what you want, it seems to me that adding protein and building muscle through light resistance would be the way to go. Muscle burns fat.

4. Are your hormones/thyroid/adrenals functioning well? Are you stressed out? Sleeping well?

Hope this sparks some ideas for you to consider. Also take a look at the Leptin Reset threads. People are healing their bio-chemistry and losing weight that way.

[22paseabelldaps]

Sorry to hear you gained.

A few things to consider:

1. Eggs are not on the protocol due to the fat content in the yolk. I suggest that if you want to change things, you cut out the stewed fruit, have a raw apple instead, and increase the protocol protein. It is possible that by cooking the apple you are losing out on the enzymes that might benefit you.

I thought eggs were on the protocol - 1 whole + 3 whites - for people who are vegetarian? Well, i'm not vegetarian but I don't eat chicken or red meat so thought that I would have it instead of white fish or prawns as they are my only two other options? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I have been eating the fruit peel on its own (uncooked) today instead of the actual stewed fruit. I'm going to cut the fruit entirely but it's gonna be tough because I always like just a small sweet taste after a meal. But that does leave my calorie counts coming in really low - 200-300 calories - because I'm not doing the fruit, the breadstick or the meat forms of protein.

2. At 5'4" normal weight for you is 120, give or take a couple of pounds for frame size. Are you ravenous? Plus, it is always slow going when close to the ideal range.

Nope, not hungry in the slightest. I have to really force myself to eat and normally feel stuffed pretty quick. I forced myself to have lunch and dinner today...lunch was 80 calories and dinner 125. I guess it will be slow going, it just seems like I'm not going anywhere at all (except the wrong direction!)

3. At this weight, even though the muscle/fat ratio is not what you want, it seems to me that adding protein and building muscle through light resistance would be the way to go. Muscle burns fat.

True. Although the fact that I'm not losing weight on a ~300 calorie diet anyway just shows how stuffed up my metabolism is following years of eating disorders/disordered eating and I don't know what to do to fix it. My doctor told me just to 'stop eating entirely' if I wanted to lose weight...but at this stage I don't think even that would work! I do yoga a couple of times a week as a kind of light resistance activity but I really just want to be able to eat like a normal human being!

4. Are your hormones/thyroid/adrenals functioning well? Are you stressed out? Sleeping well?

Hope this sparks some ideas for you to consider. Also take a look at the Leptin Reset threads. People are healing their bio-chemistry and losing weight that way.

As far as I know, everything is normal. My last blood test in Feb/March came back fine apart from I'm anaemic. I'm always stressed out and tired, but then I'm used to running on zero food so that's to be expected, and I'm in my final year of uni doing a Masters so talk about pressure! I do sleep well though. Weekends up to 11 hours a night! But i'm definitely going to check out that Leptin Resistance thread - I'm intrigued!

Thanks for all your support and helpful contributions as always.

[galaktiusman]

Since you said eggs, I thought you meant whole eggs. Some folks use egg whites for additional protein.

I really think the Leptin Reset is what you are looking for. Good luck!