[Garry Hovard]

Are you calling lucid dreams projections or just OBEs? I haven't had an OBE for some time. If I try to have them, I have them but, otherwise, their spontaneous occurrence is fairly rare. Lucid dreams, however, are different. I currently have about one a month without deliberate induction but more or better quality lucid dreams if I work at it. When I'm relaxed and not overworked I have more lucid dreams but that's probably just because I actually have better dream recall then.

[MeverikcNils]

I have the same question, are lucid dreams considered projections? To me a lucid dream is simply a dream in which you realize you're dreaming, I never considered them full astral projections.

[HoqCBYMl]

As many people, who think they have OBEs to the "public astral" actually do have lucid dreams within their private dream space, lucid dreams will be counted by some unknowingly. Also lucid dreams are OBEs as one experiences an environment while in ones energy body or then dream body - out of ones physical body.

As the experiences while OBE are very subjective, most authors seem to use their own terminology. That is why one almost always has to ask people about what they mean/understand when using certain words. Also some things one needs to experience/feel, they can only be tried to put into words using metaphors and such.

[Jueqelyl]

They do feel distinctly different, however, so, even though I personally think they're all projections, I can handle if others disagree. That said, I also think a lot of non-lucid dreams qualify as projection experiences, but that's a whole other discussion.

[Darlmtgq]

Well, to add to the subjectivity of the theme, I'll tell you how I classify them for myself-
All nonphysical experiences are projections, because your mind is focused on some other stimulus. In this way dreams, whether lucid or nonlucid, are projections. In a certain way they can be said to be APs because it seems like dreams (whether lucid or nonlucid) seem to have a lot of the components typical of an Astral Projection, with a few variables.
Now, all being projections, not all are APs or OBEs- not because they are different, but because they're perceived differently. (Now, I'm not saying they're not different, I'm saying they may not be- some seem very different and some don't, so I just don't distinguish for my own clarity.
To me, and OBE is any projection in which I experience leaving the body, and usually ends in the RTZ/etheric; although I usually don't stay there long, I'm usually 'somewhere else' before long.
And just to add detail, I think phasing is the experience of exiting to the astral (and to me phasing does have an exit, just not an exit to the RTZ) and some sort of OBE that is usually experienced differently than an RTZ OBE.
Now, all dreams being projections don't mean they are all focused on the same place/space/focus, they can be very different from each other, and usually psychologically driven. Even precog dreams have symbology attached to them, which means that they're processed by the same mechanism that processes 'daily routine' nonlocid dreams.
Anyway, that's how I see them.

Ps. I also wanted to add that when I answer the question, by 'Projection' I mean and OBE or AP phase, because used as a verb "I project" there's an action taking place, and usually voluntary.

[HedoShoodovex]

I agree, dreams are all a kind of projection, but when not lucid, then it is not a conscious projection. And as we all do dream every night according to the scientists, quite obviously the "normal" dreams are for the poll and also for most discussions not considered as OBE.
I do usually what I think people consider "phasing". I just close my eyes, shift my awareness and move out of my physical body. This I can also do with the eyes open, but then it is more difficult, as it basically causes two visions overlapping. So while phasing, also my physical senses are still working. I am very alert and have day consciousness.
Lucid dreaming and those techniques that go via a deeper trance state usually have the physical body asleep, so the senses are shifted more completely to the energybody/projection. I had few spontaneous lucid dreams, but am not working with them, as it takes some time to induce them and also the mind tends to be a bit "sleepy" from the deep relaxation.

[blogforloversxx]

Good distinctions. I acknowledge phasing/WILDs do involve a kind of conscious exit and yet, in my personal classification scheme I dub them lucid dreams. I also don't include partial projections or etheric projections of the astral limb/sight/sound types in considering my average number of projections. Nor do I call remote viewing/ clairvoyance/clairaudience/clairsentence etc projection, though some type of projection of consciousness may be involved when these things occur.

[blogwado]

Great topic, I really like this thread. Perhaps any non physical place that our conscious mind goes to would be considered a projection of consciousness. Just throwing that out there.

[fount_pirat]

Yes, Ariel, I think this is very likely. You seem to be quite adept at lucid dreaming, I bet you've experienced dual consciousness. I know I have.

[Vomephems]

I seem to be lacking in the terminology, is "Dual Consciousness", the same as, "Bi-Location" ?

[OccabsLam]

I acknowledge phasing/WILDs do involve a kind of conscious exit and yet, in my personal classification scheme I dub them lucid dreams.

Yes, WILDs are lucid dreams, it is short for wake induced lucid dream after all. In my eyes the instruction of the MAP are basically instructions for WILDs - first relax deeply, let your body fall asleep while keeping awareness (usually considered as entering sleep paralysis), move out. Depending on the individual, they either stay in their private dream space or can move also to public astral.

The word phasing I have found used by Frank Kepple, but was actually introduced by Monroe it appears. As I use no techniques, but just shift my awareness, I thought what Frank does describe comes closest to that. Here you can read about what Frank writes on phasing: http://www.astralpulse.com/frankkepple.html
When this is done with an awake physical body and mind, I consider it not a lucid dream - at least for me, the mental state is like waking consciousness, just shifted to the energy body. During a lucid dream, the mind does feel somehow a bit sluggish in comparison - even when one might notice that only afterwards, when thinking over ones actions.

People do actually project a lot without being aware of it, that is at least how I do now interpret some of my experiences. In the beginning I thought when "astral travelers" came to visit me, the people would be aware of it. But often it is just a kind of empty representation of a person. Still, it is a projection. But it is not OBE, as the person does not experience being out of body.
Same I agree on your other examples of partial projections, they are not what I consider OBEs.

@Ariel: what you write, that is the basic idea of phasing, how I understand the word

[Cyclicymn]

-delete this-

[vNQmO2BF]

Have you ever felt your astral body move away from your physical body for a split second while you were still entirely awake?

[LongaDonga]

Ariel, yes, that is what I mostly do and what I consider as a type of phasing. Just that it is not only for a split second and I do it at will.

[Wsjltrhe]

In regards to this topic of how often do we project, whether consciously or unconsciously?, Have you ever felt your astral body move away from your physical body for a split second while you were still entirely awake, or even your astral arm lift and moved towards something next to you, but only for a quick moment? These are weird sensations, and you would definitely know them when they happened. What is this all about, is this a type of "phasing" that your referring to?

Ariel, Hello. I have had the random experience of moving an astral arm, or feeling my astral body 'detach'. It is quite strange. One of the effects of the Mind Split. It makes sense to me that we project OFTEN, without knowing it,,, wether or not we are sleeping. (Sleeping mind/dreaming mind/waking mind/projected mind etc...) I often perceive different aspects of self operating simultaneously. I believe that we are 'bi-located' MOST of the time, and 'multi-demensionally-tasking'.

As far as phasing goes,, I may be a bit off on this, but I believe 'phasing' is the simple act of slipping in and/or out of different astral states and even the physical. For example, I could wait for exit sensations and 'exit', or I can slip into trance and seamlessly transfer conscious focus to another aspect of ourselves that is awake and aware, somewhere in the astral, or RTZ. I think that 'clicking out' is a bit different. Phasing in and out of different ,, lets say,, points of view, can take some getting used to... IMO, it requires a basic understanding that we exist simultaneously in different layers of reality. I hope I am not too far off base.

[ITYfl01c]

In regards to this topic of how often do we project, whether consciously or unconsciously?, Have you ever felt your astral body move away from your physical body for a split second while you were still entirely awake, or even your astral arm lift and moved towards something next to you, but only for a quick moment? These are weird sensations, and you would definitely know them when they happened. What is this all about, is this a type of "phasing" that your referring to?

This has happened a few times, one time when I was meditating I felt my astral arms go up, this is the closest I've ever gotten to projecting from a waking state. Another time when I was in bed I actually saw my astral legs come out of my body. Funny thing is they were wearing pants when I was naked at the time.

[leareliovag]

This has happened a few times, one time when I was meditating I felt my astral arms go up, this is the closest I've ever gotten to projecting from a waking state. Another time when I was in bed I actually saw my astral legs come out of my body. Funny thing is they were wearing pants when I was naked at the time.

That is really cool! I too am working on projection through meditation, but have not yet achieved it.