[BritneySpearsFun@@@]

Ishtar,
i spent seven years in boxing rings at schoolboy level, it taught me to just keep going and get back up, even when your head is crying out for you to stay down.
My hands to eye co-ordination are well trained, and I can just keep jabbing away, jabbing away.
I reckon We KNOW everything, the annoying bit is when it is close to been remembered, then our temper can make us stubborn, and dig our heels in, this is due to two brains been in use, one has dominated for ever so long, but the other knows universe, it is connected, we just need to re-learn how to better plug in, but the more information there is stored in the left brain, the more it defends itself, so I will just keep jabbing away, jabbing away.
I am an annoying little obstinant Yorkshire tyke.
kevin

[Berta]

I was just poking at you Ish.
I am a great believer in
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.
If you teach him to fish, you feed him for a life time."

BTW, I love your library of PICs and you ability to tie them to your text.

[bxxasxxa]

Is this "float time" a kin to being beween awake and sleep, when your aware of being almost awake but choose to stay asleep. Its like having a dream, getting up to go to the toilet, getting back in bed and going back to the same dream. Or in fact once I spent hours asleep unable to wake up, i thought i was awake but I was still dreaming, it went on and on. Does any one also know is there any meaning to (I hope you dont think I am nuts) a spinning very colorfull pyramid shape in dreams? jx

[Lenny Hensley]

Joplusiain -

Float Time, actually, is a misnomer, because one of its characteristics is

That it is timeless.

But, I'll begin at the beginning..........

And bear with me:

In 1970 I rented a largish old farmhouse at the outskirts of Medford, Oregon at

The base of a really big hill called colloquially enough, by

The name of "Roxy Anne."

Soon we were a household of 4 young men and 3 young women,

Various dogs, wood heat, and a really big truck garden.

Now, just outside of my room, on the ground floor, was

What we call insalubriously in America, a Mud Porch.

It was about 7' x 9', with 30" high solid lower walls and all glass windows up above.

It was intended originally to be the main entrance to the house, but we all used

The back door, which entered the kitchen directly.

That space powerfully attracted me - I can't tell you how to this day -

So one day I carpentered up a wall to wall platform in it, bought some 6" sheets of foam

And made it into my bed.

Of course my housemates immediately and raucously dubbed it the "Pleasure Palace",

Not without a superficial point, because I "was across three counties in the moonlight" those days,

As the saying goes.

Anyway, I wake up one spring morning to find the Tree of Life, infinitely large, at the foot of my bed.

My forbears called it Yggdrasil.

It is known in a thousand cultures, and has a thousand names.

And I talked with the Tree of Life and it talked with me.

Now, a couple salient perceptual points. Even though I was in the

Same old Pleasure Palace, it had become dimensionally infinite because I was no longer

Ratiocinating via Western dimensionality. Time, too

Had ceased to exist.

I felt an incredible sense of joy and fearlessness at simultaneously

"Being home" in something which absolutely was not any home I had

Ever remembered or imagined.

So that was the first time I went into fullblown Float Time.

Now, if you look at the Tao, Buddhism, Shinto, Shamanism worldwide, or more

Modern appreciations, such as the bicameral mind,

It is still all there.

Over the years, I have learned how to enter that portal awake or asleep, at

Work or at home or out in the woods.

You can do it in less than 5 minutes, then you just run.

There is always the temptation not to return. For whatever reason, something

Like a voiceless voice has always requested I return, whether I'm only

A little way out there or a very long way out there.

Consistently I have found that when I return the sense of alive

And intensity of the creative are running at max.

A pleasure, indeed.

For what its worth.

hoka hey

john

[HonestSean]

Thanks john,
I do understand i have been there although unlike you I have a negative time of it there for the most part. There was no tree for me, I must have upset someone somewhere because well here goes I will tell as I feel I may not be staying in the gate, so here goes. A few years ago I had what I thought of as semi conscience dreams. Each one about the same thing but another bit of the story. I am floating above a battlefield, I think it is jacobean, there is a man on the ground injured, above him stands a figure in a long robe with a hood. He has the heel of his foot on the mans hands and is grinding it into the ground, the man is screaming in pain. I enter the man to take his pain, I stay there for as long as i can stand it. The mans pain transfers on to me. The pain is so intense I have to step back but I go back to help again. This goes on and on and I repeat when i am in the man, I got through culloden I can get through this. This is a dream repeated to me in some form or another for some time and from which I wake exhausted. Then it happened, after leaving the man the figure turned and looked at me directly, there was no face inside the hood, it screamed "you" and a spinning pyramid flew from where its face should have been straight at me. I screamed and woke up with a jolt, and yes your right when I opened my eyes and was really awake, the pyramid was still in front of me. I dont think I have got out of bed so quick in my life. I pulled back then and put up mirrors in my head and closed my mind. i have only just started to take down my mirrors and open my head again. I wish my experiences had been as lovely as yours, but they werent, but who knows one day I might feel the love i did when I had my NDE because they must all be conected. jo x

[echocassidyde]

Jo

The walls are very thin and flimsy between this dimension and the 'other one', shall we call it? This is why you still saw the pyramid in your room, when you woke. You were still in both worlds.

That sounds to me like a very healing dream, and you were very lucky to have had it. In having that dream, you were able to get through possibly lifetimes of pain in just one moment ... thus sparing you the necessity of continually having to come back here, lifetime after lifetime, to experience the pain that you had set up for yourself to experience. (Read those last eight words again, they're important).

Our spirit guides can and do come to us in our dreams to either give us important teachings or important guidance. Sometimes, they act out a play in front of us with a hidden message, but the message is a feeling rather than an intellectual idea. This is called communicating in metaphor. The spirits communicate metaphorically rather than with words, and particularly when they're doing a healing.

So that's a great dream ... and now that you understand it was just a play to help you, to heal you, perhaps you can let go of the pain associated with the memory of it, just as you would after watching a horror movie. I hope so. And you haven't upset anyone in the netherworlds either.... far from it, I should say! So I hope that understanding will help you to let go of the guilt and terror about that.

[Lyikmcmb]

that brought tears and I understand x

[ergyuu]

"Saying it so, makes it so."

- another one of my Mother's aphorisms -

"Letting it go makes it so."

- the Tao Te Ching -

(my translation)

We all have nightmares. I've had

Some doozies.

Not to be confused with, for lack of a better phrase,

Float Time.

And Ishtar is absolutely right, terror,

Whether asleep or awake, sometimes gives

The greatest understanding

Of Healing.


hoka hey

john

[Krruqgwt]

John, I have a question about Float Time, to see how it compares to shamanic journeying.

Q: Do you meet any other beings or entities or people while in this other dimension that you can talk to, or even receive advice or wisdom or healing from?

If the answer to the above is 'Yes', then please answer this next question:

Q: Can you decide while in this dimension here to go your Float Time dimension specifically in order to seek information or guidance or healing from those entities you meet there?

Thanks!

[phinno13]

Remember,
He is a boat designer.
And that is a very different world then most of us live in day to day.
It is a very “fluid” environment.

[Heliosprime]

John, I have a question about Float Time, to see how it compares to shamanic journeying.

Q: Do you meet any other beings or entities or people while in this other dimension that you can talk to, or even receive advice or wisdom or healing from?

If the answer to the above is 'Yes', then please answer this next question:

Q: Can you decide while in this dimension here to go your Float Time dimension specifically in order to seek information or guidance or healing from those entities you meet there?

Thanks!

Ishtar -

Boy howdy, you ask the hard ones.

But I'll do my best.

I've only had four full-blown "visions" in my life, starting with the Tree of Life.

I tend to think of Float Time as someone I call Grandfather, i.e.

An specific entity.

But it doesn't always happen that way.

Sometimes there are other entities.

Communication is nonverbal.

We "talk" without talking.

There aren't any psychedelic visionary bells and whistles,

Or very rarely.

And, by the way, I have never considered this Shamanic,

But just my own Way of Knowing. This is important,

Because I have never put it into the context of Shamanism as a discipline.

Alright. Colors, space, time.

Well, there isn't any time, and space goes infinite, I don't weigh anything,

And there is no fear involved with that. Really, a sense of joy.

Colors; sometimes the space is dark, sometimes very light.

Geometric shapes may drift through, and the colors may change like watching a

Sunrise or a sunset or a storm. Regularly, items may appear, such as

A strange flower, or a child's sandal, or a headland of a coast I don't know.

Sometimes faces, beings, dancers.

In answer to your second question, none of the above is "Cognitive" in the everyday sense that

We discuss on this forum.

And yes, I decide to step through that portal to a specific and different awareness,

Sometimes on a daily basis.

I decide and ...........shift.

I just read through this and realized that I would appear to be a madman.

Be it said that I balance this with a high intensity upper management job by

Which I support gas and groceries and clothing and mortgage and and and.........

So I guess I live in two worlds.

Damned if I know.

So, as poor as this answer may be,

'Tis the truth of it, as truth may be.

hoka hey

john

ps

Forgot to answer maybe your most important question.

Yes it is all about healing and guidance for myself.

But even more so to share with others.

j

[VowJoyday]

Forgot to answer maybe your most important question.

Yes it is all about healing and guidance for myself.

But even more so to share with others.

j

You are right, John. That is the most important bit ... and all the rest, whether it's 'shamanic' or not, is just to do with the cognitive labels that we put on things on this side of veil. These labels can be helpful, but they can also hinder when one says one way is right and another says 'no, it's another'. That's religion.

The shamanic way is a particular discipline that is taught in a certain way. But if someone knows how to built a rocket to the moon, you wouldn't say they couldn't just because they didn't have a degree in aeronautical engineering.

Some people are just naturals, and I've always considered you as such.

[Serereids]

This extract from a review in today's Counterpunch is about a new book called The Assassination of Julius Caesar: The People's History of Rome by Michael Parenti.

It puts some some flesh on the skeleton outline I gave earlier in this thread of how Constantine and subsequent Roman emperors enforced Christianity by destroying all the previous wisdom literature:

Of course, much of the story of Rome’s first few centuries is, as Parenti puts it, “lost to us.” For as the Roman Empire became the Holy Roman Empire, its paganism proved insult to the newly pious. As always, the theocrats employed hammer and flame to erase an inconvenient past. Though the great Alexandrian library, the Serapeum, and Museum were left intact by the Caesars, (Julius and Octavian) they were laid waste by monotheistic hordes.

“The Egyptian Serapeum -- containing hundreds of thousands of scrolls and codices dealing with history, science, and literature -- was ... brought to ruin by by a gang of Christ worshipers, led by the bishop Theophilus in A.D. 391.” Parenti continues, “This was at a time when the ascendant Christian church was shutting down the ancient academies and destroying libraries and books as part of its totalistic war against pagan culture. ‘The burning of books,’ Luciano Canfora notes, ‘was part of the advent and imposition of Christianity.’”

After the ascension of Emperor Constantine, Christianity becoming the official religion of the realm, “Rome’s twenty-eight public libraries ‘like tombs were closed forever,’ laments the noted fourth -century pagan historian Ammianus Marcellinus. In pagan times, the Romans boasted libraries of up to 500,000 volumes. But under Christian hegemony, laypersons were regularly forbidden access to books, the profession of copyist disappeared, and so did most secular writings.” (Parenti)

Though the writing of Roman history was “a time honored task” undertaken by many, the record was largely erased by “systematic campaigns waged by the Jesus proselytes against library archives, secular learning, and literacy in general.”

So today, in our understanding of “ancient history” --- of the implacable violence deployed by elites against democratic reforms such as land distribution, rights to food, rent controls, rational power relations and other issues of perennial importance to plebs and peasants everywhere -- important evidence is denied us.

Only scant fragments remain, handed down second-hand, based on previously glimpsed, long-destroyed source material and recorded generations later, usually by those in service to the wealthy and blood-stained. The rest of review is here and it's very well written and very interesting, by Richard Rhames, who describes himself as a dirt farmer in Maine.

[CGH1KZzy]

My argument is not with the historical facts that these things happened.
My argument is that it was done in the name of Christ.
The Holy Roman Empire was far from "Christian"
Look into the history of the title "Pontifius Maximums."

[HitAttetlyTek]

I think you're getting your dates mixed up, KB.

The Holy Roman Empire was formed by Charlemagne, c 800 AD. And yes, you're right, it was neither Holy, Roman, nor an Empire.

But I'm going back 4-500 years before that, when Constantine ruled, and a Christian bishop led the mob into burning down the Library of Alexandria.

n the late 4th century, persecution of pagans by Christians had reached new levels of intensity. Temples and statues were destroyed throughout the Roman Empire, pagan rituals forbidden under punishment of death, and libraries closed. In 391, Emperor Theodosius ordered the destruction of all pagan temples, and Patriarch Theophilus of Alexandria complied with this request. Socrates Scholasticus provides the following account of the destruction of the temples in Alexandria:

"Demolition of the Idolatrous Temples at Alexandria, and the Consequent Conflict between the Pagans and Christians. At the solicitation of Theophilus bishop of Alexandria the emperor issued an order at this time for the demolition of the heathen temples in that city; commanding also that it should be put in execution under the direction of Theophilus. Seizing this opportunity, Theophilus exerted himself to the utmost to expose the pagan mysteries to contempt.

"And to begin with, he caused the Mithreum to be cleaned out, and exhibited to public view the tokens of its bloody mysteries. Then he destroyed the Serapeum, and the bloody rites of the Mithreum he publicly caricatured; the Serapeum also he showed full of extravagant superstitions, and he had the phalli of Priapus carried through the midst of the forum.

"Thus this disturbance having been terminated, the governor of Alexandria, and the commander-in-chief of the troops in Egypt, assisted Theophilus in demolishing the heathen temples. These were therefore razed to the ground, and the images of their gods molten into pots and other convenient utensils for the use of the Alexandrian church; for the emperor had instructed Theophilus to distribute them for the relief of the poor.

"All the images were accordingly broken to pieces, except one statue of the god before mentioned, which Theophilus preserved and set up in a public place; 'Lest,' said he, 'at a future time the heathens should deny that they had ever worshipped such gods.'"
From here

The same mob attacked a pagan seeress who taught maths, philosophy and astronomy, and skinned her alive with sea shells.

Wiki article on Hypatia

Hypatia of Alexandria (pronounced /haɪˈpeɪʃə/ in English) (Greek: Ὑπατία; born between AD 350 and 370 – 415) was a Greek[1][2] scholar from Alexandria in Egypt,[3][4] considered the first notable woman in mathematics, who also taught philosophy and astronomy.[5] She lived in Roman Egypt, and was killed by a Christian mob who blamed her for religious turmoil. She has been valorized as a "valiant defender of science against religion",[6] and some suggest that her murder marked the end of the Hellenistic Age,[7][8] although others observe pagan philosophy continued to flourish until the age of Justinian in the sixth century.

[Michmant]

You are right.
I got my "C's" mixed up.
But neither was a follower of Christ.
Either personaly or in the organazitions they headed up.

[mikeyyuiok]

The rape and murder of Hypatia was carried out by Christian ascetic monks from the Nitrian valley and led by one called Peter the Reader. These were the monks that came from that part of the desert known to be the habitat of the Early Desert Fathers, the Wadi El Natrun valley.

Wiki on Wadi El Natrun
The region of Wadi El Natrun was and remains one of the most sacred regions in Christianity. Between the 4th century, when Saint Macarius of Egypt retired to the desert,[1] and the 7th century A.D., the region attracted hundreds of thousands of people from the world over to join the hundreds of monasteries of the Nitrian Desert. The desolate region became a sanctuary for the desert fathers and for cenobitic monastic communities. Many anchorites, hermits and monks lived in the desert and the hills around the region. The solitude of the Nitrian Desert attracted these people because they saw in the privations of the desert a means of learning stoic self-discipline (asceticism). Thus, these individuals believed that desert life would teach them to eschew the things of this world and allow them to follow God's call in a more deliberate and individual way. It was the cradle of Christianity. You don't get any more Christian than that.

[Meerenuch]

Again;

A far cry from what Jesus taught.

Just because you claim a name does not mean you deserve it,

In fact,

While he said
"Be no part of the world"

He did not say to
"Remove ourselves from it."

The "Christian" thing to do is to publish or proclaim, or evalanginaze, or what ever word you want to use, the hope he provided to those who are "skinned and thrown about."

That kind of throws out the whole “Hermit” and “Cloistered" concept.

[Texdolley]

Well, there is a good reason for being a hermit and cloistered if you know what to do with all that silence. Mystics and yogis in caves in Himalayas use it to turn their concentration inwards to perceive the inner worlds. However, you need to be initiated to known how to do this.

Thus Peter the Reader and his cohorts in the desert had not the first clue about how to reach the inner worlds. By having a metaphorical story made literal, and the second initiation being taken away from them, if they did turn their concentration inwards they would have just found empty blackness.

So they must have been extremely bored just staring out at all that desert sand, day after day after day ... and what better to break that boredom on a Saturday night than to go out on the town in Alexandria and rape, skin alive and murder the most famous female philosopher they could find? They probably rounded it off with a chicken tikka masala and a few beers afterwards... as you do.

[VistaULTIMATEdownloadaPro]

This may be seemingly unrelated, but to me is the living, beating heart

Of the matter.

What is the web of cognitive relationships between meditation, shamanic voyaging, and what I call "float time?"

There are no real boundaries I can call out, but I am somehow aware of these shifts in perception as they happen.

And, by the way,

None of the above have anything to do with what we commonly call religion, any religion,

Which is by purpose and practise a fascist imposition of a "tyranny of belief"

By an Oligarchic system hell-bent on profit and temporal power.

"Soldiers of God", indeed. Every religion has them, cossets them, praises them, anthemises them.


hoka hey

john