[Nundduedola]

studies have been conducted on this. according to what i have researched plants do not have a nervous system so they are unable to feel pain. now have you seen the way they kill animals in slaughter houses.

buddhist monks do not eat meat. i read that they go to pet shops and buy thousands of fish and then free them in the ocean.

actually, if you read up on some of temple grandin's work [please pm as the link](i hope that this link is tangential enough to pass through the filter, otherwise just pm me) you will find that, when the killing is done correctly, cattle at least will not feel pain, even while their throats are being cut. it has something to do with the shape of the knofe and where the cut is made, but it is possible to take the animal's life with no apparent suffering.

also, as for the monks, i know that tibetan buddhist monks, at least, will eat meat. a group came to my state some years back to make sand mandalas and ate at least one meal at a local mcdonald's.

[we0MA4MI]

if everything, even planets, even trees, even animals, even us, if every single living organism and cell is made up of "the spark of the divine" then arent we here to experience eachother anyway? we do it in relationships a lot. not only that, but ra discusses the fact that the creator is always experiencing itself. how is eating any different? i would consider that part of that umbrella, whether your a sprout or cattle or a human.

also, i do see from posts in this thread that everyone is centered on the "killing" part. well, really? arent we all eternal? havent we decided that? i mean, most of us do not fear death because we know there is more. and does that animal or life form or plant not go right to the creator, just as we all do??? we are incorporating that "fear reflex" when it comes to death in our statements against meat or plant eating....

------------------

we can all try and debate the food issue all day, really. it seems like it could go on forever. its very intruiging to listen to everyone's view points. at the same time, until we truly know when we are in a different plane of existence...then....we'll never know!

meat or no meat, right or wrong, good or bad....

it doesnt mean a thing if we are all truly loving and happy. and we will all, every single speck of it all will return to the creator at some point. so what does it matter?

[appletango]

great points. remember that hitler was a vegetarian it can point towards certain polarities, but really your diet has to do with biological necessity and not your true spiritual frequency.
some blood types, such as o-type blood, require animal protein. i've always said that the size and efficiency of the human brain is linked with our historical digestion of omega-6 fatty acids, such as fish. yet people over-consume animal protein to such an extent it becomes damaging to their body...which again is another extreme.
it raises several questions too about the act of hunting as well; a hunter could be a loving soul but if she/he needs to feed their family, then the act of killing an animal becomes a necessity. i wouldn't think it would be a negative karmic act if it's done with love and respect. although it may to some degree indicate sts polarity, the only way you can truly be of service is if you look after yourself too and sometimes, that means gobbling down a nice burger or two...
but factory slaughterhouse conditions are pretty horrific...go for free range!

[Toossehew]

dear jadde44,
just a quick comment, in my understanding, eating meat, or other flesh, has very little if nothing to to with sts or sto, but a lot with vibration; our vibration.
many argument can be made or or against eating meat, or whether eating plant material is still killing. it all involves the mind, if you ought to sustain from eating meat, you will know, and you never will eat meat again. that simple. until then, eat with appreciation, what you enjoy.

regards detlef
rah nam

[Soolfelpecelf]

i don't want to judge anyone. but after i saw "meet you meat" on you tube my life has never been the same. i think anyone that watches this video and sees the torture that animals go through in slaughter houses will never eat meat if they have a conscious and aware mind. these animals did not come here to live in cages, be tortured and killed. if you see the video you will see the suffering, you will see the sad life these animals live. for what???for us, when we can eat so many other things. there are so many alternatives to meat today that i feel animals should be left torture free. can you imagine someone slicing your throat and leaving you there to bleed to death? just so that we could eat...no human needs meat to survive, that is a false statement. you will not die if you stop eating meat, guaranteed. there is so much myth. i think many humans are not ready to understand and that is okay it takes time. when slaves were allowed they were viewed as human property and they were viewed as less than us. i hope one day we will not view animals as less than us and killing an animal will be punishable by law. i don't care if buddha, jesus, or the holiest masters ate meat. they too were not perfect and we should not follow anyone blindly. follow your heart but open eyes, stop sugarcoding and making it alright to kill these poor creatures. they came here to live just like you, not to be on your plate. i think its heartless to do what we do. i too included. i swear to you i can not understand humans. how can we have a pet birds,pet fish, pet dogs, pet cats and love them so much but turn around and eat chicken. how would you feel if they killed your pet? i hope noone on this forum gets upset or takes this personal but i am writing this because i am confused. confused at how this world can be so cruel. animals in the wild may not have a choice but we do.

[Ivanaishere]

i go with what my body requires. my body tells me what it needs. i eat when i'm hungry and stop when ive had sufficient.

this may seem like teaching granny to suck eggs, but its surprising how many people over indulge on a daily basis.

[BoboStin]

i don't want to judge anyone. but after i saw "meet you meat" on you tube my life has never been the same. i think anyone that watches this video and sees the torture that animals go through in slaughter houses will never eat meat if they have a conscious and aware mind. these animals did not come here to live in cages, be tortured and killed. if you see the video you will see the suffering, you will see the sad life these animals live. for what???for us, when we can eat so many other things. there are so many alternatives to meat today that i feel animals should be left torture free. can you imagine someone slicing your throat and leaving you there to bleed to death? just so that we could eat...no human needs meat to survive, that is a false statement. you will not die if you stop eating meat, guaranteed. there is so much myth. i think many humans are not ready to understand and that is okay it takes time. when slaves were allowed they were viewed as human property and they were viewed as less than us. i hope one day we will not view animals as less than us and killing an animal will be punishable by law. i don't care if buddha, jesus, or the holiest masters ate meat. they too were not perfect and we should not follow anyone blindly. follow your heart but open eyes, stop sugarcoding and making it alright to kill these poor creatures. they came here to live just like you, not to be on your plate. i think its heartless to do what we do. i too included. i swear to you i can not understand humans. how can we have a pet birds,pet fish, pet dogs, pet cats and love them so much but turn around and eat chicken. how would you feel if they killed your pet? i hope noone on this forum gets upset or takes this personal but i am writing this because i am confused. confused at how this world can be so cruel. animals in the wild may not have a choice but we do.

hi jadde44,

like everything else in life, your diet is a choice. i think you consistently heard from people on this forum that you should follow your own inner guidance. judging from the post above, i don't see why you're confused! your inner guidance is clearly that you should be a vegetarian!

i hope our discussions may have been of some service to you in reaching this conclusion, but i rather suspect that you knew that before you started the thread.

love and light,

3d sunset

[Virosponna]

so let's open this up even further. we live in an age of incredible ease and abundance, and truly all most of us can do is give lip-service to the idea of actually sustaining ourselves. i own my home and it has a small yard which my wife and i intensively garden. we have fruit trees and do our best to freeze, dry, or can all that is possible come harvest time.

do you know what we can grow enough of to get through the whole year on, including seed or stock for starting the next season's crop? garlic and cayenne peppers. and apples (dried or otherwise prepared).

really people, our ability to provide our own food is virtually non-existent. i garden for joy and health. i don't know that it saves that much on our food-bill as gardening has its own expenses (the rising cost of water being one of them, although its cost isn't rising like food at the store!), but the product is superior if only in that it is food i have been physically present and involved with, that i have imbued with as much love as i can.

but we are doing what we can to close the circle, to cut out the waste of transportation of food, to use the debris for our compost, to make the most of that which we have. frankly, while it is only garlic i can grow enough of to last all year, what if everyone grew enough garlic to last a year? it doesn't take much space at all and the reduction in diesel fuel used to transport garlic all over heck and back would be huge!

i've gotten perpendicular here though. we have chickens as well, kept for the eggs. they are loved, but we were careful to name them things like dumpling, potsticker, and barbie (i think her last name was "q" something!)
because in taking on chickens as part of our trying to close the circle, as it were, we have taken on all that is implied therein.

this year we got eight new birds as our four that were left are finishing egg production. this weekend it is time for me to thin the flock as we can't afford to feed chickens that aren't closing the circle anymore, y'know? organic chicken feed just went up $5 a bag. i am going to harvest the eldest chickens and add them to the circle (likely as enchiladas or chili).

they have been part of our circle, eating our leftovers, creating hi-test fertilizer for our garden, providing eggs for our larder, and ultimately providing protein of themselves to the table.

and it is a huge amount of work, but it is hands on and honest.

there was one comment in this thread along the lines of "well, at least i don't get the bad karma of actually killing an animal." i have to disagree, and say with this, as with anything, there is no single right or wrong on this free-will plane. i agree slaughter-house practices are deplorable, and egg-farms as well (another reason i raise my own chickens). so it seems very silly to think that i could be so fully and consciously involved in a process, trying to close the circle and lessen my impact upon the planet, and taking personal responsibility with as much love in my heart as i can, and i'm gonna end up sucking bad karma eggs for honoring my circle?! i think not.

and free will sez you may not like it, but that doesn't mean you can legislate against it. so easy there jadde44! if we can reach a global consciousness of love and eradicate the need for protein production (it is very inefficient raising, say, cattle, compared to what the feed would provide people directly) that will be wonderful. if we don't attain such consciousness, well, i'm gonna need to feed my family. you too. what then?

some of our ideas are based on the concept that the world food supply and local economies are going to allow the continuing choice of organic or not, meat or not. we are omnivores for a reason. beyond these great choices we currently have lays necessity. faced with necessity much of what is spoken of in this thread would be moot, philosophies that won't fill the belly.

let's bless the abundance of choice we have and seek that world-wide epiphany! between here and there, respect, love, and gratitude to all.

and pardon's for the length of this...

[geniusxs81]

...holding so much resentment for those who eat meat or kill animals or do anything you view as negative or unhealthy will only hold you back spiritually.

we are not here to judge what is right and what is wrong onto others. i think drinking alcohol is gross and i dont understand why people do it, but it is simply not for me to understand. i dont harbor resentment of a person who drinks. nor do i harp on them and tell them that "it is not the right way."

toss the judgements aside of those that are eating meat. toss the judgement aside for those that murder or love or hate or help or anything. we are not here on this forum for this, are we? to tell eachother that "eating meat is wrong" or doing whatever is wrong...

you cant guilt someone into not eating an animal or attatch the fear of death in your own mind to what is going on. one must come to their own conclusions and balances. if it involves eating meat? great! if it involves living a life off the grid and eating berries and twigs? great! if it involves anything that balances an individual in the way they require? wonderful!

everyone has their own balances!!!! rejoice in the fact that you have found your balance! stop chastising people for their path being different and wish for them to achieve the same wonderful balance, if they have not already, in any way that suits them!!!

the truth is, we are all as unique as snowflakes. one mans trash is anothers treasure. its not for you to say what is good and bad karma for anyone else.

again, rejoice, my friends, for we are all individuals with our own individual balances. meat or no meat.

[kertionderf]

i agree with detlef 110%
i'm a natural vegetarian - eating meat and fish was always wrong to me, i was completely confused by it as a child, i ate it to please my parents but stopped at age 10, at which time i was old enough to explain why i needed to be vegetarian and to assist in food preparation.

the only place you need to look for answers to the vegetarian or not vegetarian debate is within.

however, i work as a marketing consultant - among my clients are a butcher and an organic livestock farm. i have the utmost respect for these businesses, they are non exploitative and trade ethically, sustainably and seek to encourage people to understand their food. despite being veggie i enjoy promoting what they do. i would however feel differently about exploitative farming practices or wasteful food production companies.

interestingly my son who turned 2 a couple of weeks ago asked his first vegetarian question today - he was watching a kids tv programme that mentioned fish as in food, and was clearly confused by the difference between fish for eating and fish swimming about. i tried to explain the difference and that we don't eat fish. i suspect we shall have many interesting vegetarian-related discussions as he grows... i however believe that since he chose me to parent him, he has already chosen a vegetarian childhood.

[stunnyravytal]

i'm broke right now (just started my new job after moving and haven't been paid yet) and i am so thankful for cheap food like lunch meat and hotdogs and mcdonalds hamburgers.

[HaremShaih]

hey dazcox! a part of me has always considered hot dogs to be good karma food because they don't waste anything from the animal!

just make sure you bless the s**t out of that *hi* before you eat it!!!

[BruceCroucshs]

it is certainly a bounty and blessing to be in the presence of such abundance that one can afford to be picky in choosing one's food. may it someday be thus for all people of the planet.

nancy in oregon

[P1international]

the difference between nature and the animal kingdom is that they are not aware of their actions, they have no choice, no free will. a cat is hungry it can only use what it has (instincts, anatomy) to obtain its food, it has no other choice. we have free will are well aware of our actions, and have a choice. confining 8,000 pigs in a barn is not nature. nature is perfect, in harmony, flawless. throw modern man in the mix it is exploited and out of balance.

list all the reasons why its necessary to eat meat, then all the reasons its necessary to be a vegetarian, you will notice your answeres for vegetariansim are moslty sto and meat eating sts.

the argument for plant suffering isnt valid if you know anything about plants.
grass thrives on grazing.
some plants benefit from being eaten, berries, fruits, which are colorful to advertise to thier vertebrate consumers.
root veggies might disagree, and some parts of plants like the foliage too. but they arent "screaming"

[Buildityrit]

i pulled this from a website (decades of research back it up) pm for name

blood type o should basically stick to a high protein diet (including red meat), low carbs, fruits and vegetables. cut out wheat and most other grains, corn, and avoid dairy products and most nuts. must engage in vigorous physical exercise.

based on davids description he must be type o im apos and low and behold my diet and lifestyle fit niceley into this description (before i even knew about the blood type thing).


blood type a must ideally be vegetarian - high carbohydrate, low fat. basically, stick to fruits and vegetables. this blood type is supposed to have relatively thicker blood, and a sensitive immune system. must not consume dairy products, animal fat and meat. should engage in gentle exercise such as yoga or golf, and meditate to deal with stress.

blood type b can have the most varied diet of all the blood types. should consume a balanced diet of fruits and vegetables, grains, fish, dairy products. chicken is best avoided. should engage in moderate exercise such as swimming or walking.

blood type ab has most of the benefits and limitations of types a and b. should consume a mostly vegetarian diet, and only on rare occasions some fish, meat (no chicken), and dairy products. should engage in calming exercises and relaxation techniques. considered the friendliest immune system of all the blood types.

so basically everyone can go vegan except o's so there you have it.

i just want to point out that i've read descriptions of the blood types that do not fit in perfectly with these.

however, both agreed that type o benefits the most from meat.

i am ab and meat doesn't do much if anything for me... it actually makes me feel sick and heavy and lazy.

personally i don't think it is wrong per se to eat meat, however i think the way that animals are treated and slaughtered is not ok. i think if you do eat meat you should make an effort to get cruelty-free free range meat.

i have it easy because when i've tried to go off my vegan diet, i get really really sick immediately, haha. so it's actually been extremely easy for me to keep my diet. i'm not a perfect vegan though i have dairy every now and then.

[BarBoss]

daily diet includes:

* lots of water

* fresh fruit and vegetables

* legumes and nuts

* chicken

* milk and cheese

occasionally tuna and some red meat. try to minimize
all medications and supplements- i see these as potential
poison.

[Adamanta]

i highly recommend the work of [please pm for authors]. they have 3 books out. really groundbreaking ideas on nutrition, health, cause of disease, methods to heal.

ive been doing some liver/gallbladder flushes lately and getting out large bright green stones. i feel better than ever and my digestion has never been so smooth. i grew up with constant upset stomach and abdominal pain - even had gallbladder surgery at age 7 to remove a cyst. in high school i developed really terrible acid reflux and started to have celiac-like symptoms - intestinal pain, bloody stool, low weight, low energy, apathy. by age 19 i knew the food was the culprit and i had to make a change. so ive been following a mostly raw and vegan diet for 1.5 years. im still finding a balance. just changing diet is not a cure-all.

[floadaVonfoli]

as an aspiring strongman, i eat tons of egg whites, turkey sausage, chicken, almonds, and fish, for muscle growth and strength gains.

[Cxcvvfbgtr]

i'm quite intrigued about other people's nutrition. are most people vegetarian or carnivore or quite mixed.

myself, i'm much more into steak, meat. i know that each time i eat a steak it is a living creature being killed for some to eat, that part is sad, but at the same time, even if human are killing thousands and millions each day, it is the way of nature. each animals hunt and kill to be able to live. i'm a naturalist, even if death can be sometimes disgusting.
i do not know much about food, but as our ancestors ate mainly meat, and a lot of living animals have to kill, in order to live.
*when you have to kill, it costs nothing to be polite*
i very seldom eat vegetables. my main meals are around 90% meat, 10% veggies. i tried eating veggies only in a day and honestly, i did not feel very well the day after. no energy, small headache.
my body needs that meat and stuff coming from it.
it may not be healthy, but i believe in nature, and nature shows me that human is made to eat meat, like a lot of other animals.

i have great respect for vegetarians, though i am not ready to stop eating meat. no that i approve of endless massacre of poor animals, i will not stop eating meat, as nature is meant to be.

[Brutton]

hi i would like to share my thoughts about the vegan diet and our transition to 4d.
i find it interesting that as we rise in frequency to the 4d we wish to eat a vegan diet.
i have been a vegetarian for 16 years but only the last 2 years eating a vegan diet, with no dairy, eggs, or honey.
i have found it has helped me feel much better and more in"tune" with my self and better concentration in meditation.

many books i am reading now share the same concept that as us humans evolve and add the next strand of our repressed dna we all will be vegan humans.

the sirian high council books that i just read mentioned that it is better not to eat the killed animals. the fear and pain and hurt goes into these animal bodies when they are tortured and killed and then into us humans when we eat them. the low frequency keeps us closer to the 3d and the fear reality and way of life. i believe this has been a way the dark forces used to keep us humans in the lower killing mode of behavior and keep us from contacting the higher light beings and higher spiritual qualities that we carryin us like unconditional love.

would anyone like to share their thoughts and feelings about if they have changed to a vegetarian diet and vegan diet lately due to the rising of our earth to 4d?

i have read that our planet has 40% percent vegetarian people now and rising.

i just read some things that talked about beings from andromeda who are 5d and they are fruitarians. i can see us humans evolving to 4d with vegan diet than 5d as fruitarians.

as i understand the fruitarian diet beings only eat foods that can be plucked from a plant or tree, bush without hurting the plant itself. foods like tomato or cucumber and oranges and nuts, berries. because vegetable that are cut like lettuce, parsley have a "scared conciousnes" because the plant has an awarness. when a plant is cut it it gets a "scared feeling" that goes into the plant and you will get this into you when you eat it.
they may eat wheat or brown rise because it is only harvested after the plant is dried out and does not have any conciousness.

so i see that the 5d people are very sensitive to this and only eat foods that are karma free.

i am thinking that 6d beings would not have to eat anything just get their energy from the light.

there are now many web sites that talk about mass raising of animals for food is causing harm to our planet earth. the animals give out methaine gas that is causing global warming and drastic climate changes. there was a climate conference in copenhagan in december 2009 which talked some about this concept.

it would be better for the planet and us humans if we stopped raising animals and ate a vegan diet. if we all stopped buying this "dead meat food" , "dead fish food" then we could use the money to plant more organic farms around the world. the resources of water and grains that are given to animals could be better used for starving people on our planet.

please share your positive feelings about the vegan diet as helping you in anyway.

please refrain from posting to advance the animal eating diet because i believe this is already "old stuff" and soon will vanish from our planet as a way of eating. thank you.