[poonnassunlix]

a few days back i made an off-handed remark that essentially stated that death was the greatest con ever perpetrated on the terran species. the statement seems to have raised perturbation in some so i thought that i might have a go at clarifying the statement. what follows is not an opinion but perception built upon observations of the 3d environment that surrounds me and the scientific work of the university of virginia.

as is often required i will set some “rules” and/or “boundaries” for the discussion. first, death will be defined as that event that occurs when the physical body ceases to function. secondly, the death event itself must be separated from the emotional reaction that occurs in those who are associated with any particular occurrence of that event including the individual experiencing the actual event and those who are related, in some way, to that individual.

let’s begin by examining the event from a spiritual/metaphysical aspect. the primary reality one reaches early on when awakening to the spiritual/metaphysical existence of an entity in 3d is that we are not the physical vehicle. we are a consciousness, often referred to as the higher self, that is separate from and not a part of that vehicle. an analogy would be that of an automobile and its driver. the automobile is very analogous to a body in that it has devices that give it mobility along with an engine that provides propulsion and, in this day and age, computers and sensors which provide a level of intelligence or consciousness, if you will. regardless of the capabilities, the automobile still needs a driver to complete it functionality.

in time an automobile will wear out and cease to function or through an accident it can become non-functional, however, in most cases the driver is unaffected and will continue to function exactly as it did before. the automobile is merely a device that provides the driver with the mobility to access experiences in remote locations.

the same is true of the physical body. it is simply a vehicle through which the higher consciousness, our creator fragment, can experience 3d. the body may have inherent within it a personality strictly for interfacing with other-selves that is equivalent to the paint and body on the automobile but that is still not the “driver”. the body may have a part of it that can do conscious thought processes the same as the computers and sensors in an automobile but again that is not the driver. so you see we are not the body, we are truly an infinite, eternal consciousness that is a fragment of the original infinite creator.

the confidence game or scheme is done through persuasion and the gaining of the victim or mark’s confidence. the death con has been perpetrated down through the years by science, organized religion and other social structures which have had the confidence of the people and has used that confidence to persuade the general populace that they were their bodies. even religions for thousands of years have leaned heavily on the implication that the body was somehow important and not simply a vehicle for temporary use as evidenced by the burial rituals of ancient cultures.

this realization that the body is but a temporary vehicle is not to imply that a life stream is to be taken with little or no regard as that is diametrically opposed to the true reality that every life stream is sacred. however, the true reality remains that we are not the body and that the transition back into the energetic consciousness that we are, death, should not be mourned but celebrated for what it is--another “soul” completing another learning journey through 3d.

brother asa

[Âåðåùàãèí]

well, brother asa, thanks so much! i love your automobile analogy, this is one that i have used myself.

even though many who have embarked upon the spiritual/metaphysical path have gained some understanding of being an eternally existing being which only temporarily occupies a body, many still wonder about their present incarnate self – their present sense of self, their personality, their loves and relationships and their conscious mind and their accrued intellect which has been developed over the course of their incarnation – what aspect or aspects of ‘me’ will survive death? will i recognise myself as me when i have passed, or will my familiar personality fail to survive bodily disintegration?

a fair question, i concur, as when we are born, we seem as brand new identities, starting from experiential scratch.

if one considers the scenario in which we pre-plan our incarnative biases and personality potentials prior to birth – or in the hyper-dimensional sense of timelessness, outside of incarnation, we may wonder if the person we are and were designed to be this time around consists of a very few carefully chosen aspects of our greater being which may be considered to be the product of all the experiencing we have had, all the way up from first density, through second, and including all of our gains therewith including all we have distilled from many lifetimes spent in third density.

it may be that the personality that we wear in this lifetime is merely a conglomeration of carefully chosen aspects of our bigger selves, brought together for the purpose of having been calculated to mesh optimally with our karmic debts, as well as the demands of the current age in which we find ourselves.

as we enjoy and cherish who we are as precious and unique individuals in this incarnation, we may well be very pleasantly surprised – upon passing from this seeming mortal coil, that we find to our outright delight that the personality we have worn is but as a single hand dealt in a poker game; and that we remember much more about ourselves and the entirety of who we really are than what we are aware of, now.

ra speaks of the veil of forgetfulness as a cordoning off of our incarnative experiences from our whole selves; a temporary pushing out of a temporary personality which consists of a few carefully chosen (and put-together-strategically) aspects from amongst the more wholistic aspect of our greater being, in order to apprehend and work with certain bite sized chunks of certain areas of our overall self which could stand some refinement.

in this, a single lifetime consists of only a few harmonically blended aspects of the greater whole of what we have achieved as individuals, a single lifetime being as a single facet of a diamond, the single facet reflecting light captured by the whole diamond in unique ways, and the personality which we identify and guard so well in this lifetime and which is subject to the end of this body’s run may be seen upon passing as having been all along as a thinner but carefully chosen and smaller version of the greater totality of our being.

i would offer the idea that upon passing, you’ll look upon the immediately experienced chapter as having been only a small part of you, and you may actually say to yourself, “oooooohh, what a fantastic dream! thank god i have re-awoken to who i really am, and thank god for having had this chance to smooth myself out!”

we may even find that those whom we have loved the most turn out to have been turned-out aspects of ourselves. mark

[Faumpiggueria]

upon further consideration, our totality upon this awakening to ourselves upon 'death' may own an aspect of being the totality of our experiences up to and including third density, but yet with being comfortably aware of and at peace with our 6th density being; the sum of our overall human experiencing as one being, and leading towards re-unification with oneness of all there is. mark

[BigMovies]

this is a good thread for 11.11.11

and to push the automobile theme a bit further we can see even more connections to current situations.

we can liken the idea of predetermining our life path to customizing a new vehicle online. one can go to a car manufacturer online and pick and choose the accessories that are comforting to the driver. furthermore, one can enhance certain features of the vehicle depending on the types of roadways or terrain one will be driving upon with the vehicle. some people like to go very fast while others like to drive up big mountains. the interesting thing about all this is, why we would pick out all the accessories and features custom for our adventure, and then forget what we even ordered to begin with. it's like having a new truck delivered to your home, not expecting it or knowing what it's for, and then to be told it's what you ordered. some even go as far as taking there new sports car onto mountain trails! it's as if they have no real idea of what it's designed for in the first place. i would guess that this is the joy of discovering it for yourself. well truth be told, there is no better teacher than experience.

so all in all, we are not the car we drive, and we equip ourselves to handle the many conditions we will encounter on the roads of life. sounds like a good time to me!

thanks for the post asa

-apophis

[neguoogleX]

wow, i just have to say you guys are awesome. i'm feeling both my spirit and my brain expand exponentially as i read these posts. i also have several lightbulbs flashing maddly over my head, complete "aha" moments in reconciling my reluctance to kundalini, the death portal, and my desire to not leave my loved ones prematurely as i feel there is much i can do for them in this time we have. i will let this knowledge simmer and percolate as i get ready to embrace this spiritual journey fully once more, knowing there is nothing to fear. love and light to you all. thank you for being here.

[didrexx]

i don't see how death could be "the greatest con ever manifested" if it's doing such a poor job tricking people so often...
mark informed us he "doesn't believe in it" period.

question: as an entity goes through the death process in 3rd density it finds itself in time/space. would you describe that?
ra: in space/time the spatial locations of different material objects, all of which appear in the visual field at the same instant of time, produces a tangible framework for the illusion of space. in time/space the inequity (i.e., the differences perceived?) is upon the shoulders of what you call time. this property renders entities and experiences intangible in a relative sense.

question: as this transition continues into 4th density activation, in order to inhabit this 4th density earth it will be necessary for all 3rd density physical bodies to go through the process which we refer to as death. is this correct?
ra: this is correct. [note: this is the most widely misunderstood quote in the law of one series. context reveals that ra is referring to a transmutation, not any type of death as we would normally think of it. this is an ecstatic feeling -- the most incredible moment of any lifetime you've ever had as a human being.
elsewhere ra says you can reconstitute your third-density body after this happens if you so choose -- you simply have to focus on a "more difficult configuration" to get it back.
through wilcock, ra further revealed that there will be an et-assisted transition off of the earth plane prior to the 20-degree polar realignment. this highly joyful and even ecstatic transition will not seem like death at all, even though the time of 3rd density incarnation will come to a natural and unseen end along the way.]

ra: ...an entity able to program experiences may choose the number and the intensity of the lessons to be learned it is possible that an extremely positively oriented entity might program for itself situations testing the ability of the self to refrain from defensive action even to the point of physical death of self or other-self. this is an intensive lesson, and it is not known what entities have programmed for themselves. we may, if we desire, read this programming. however, this is an infringement and we choose not to do so.

[imporrilk]

i don't see how death could be "the greatest con ever manifested" if it's doing such a poor job tricking people so often...
mark informed us he "doesn't believe in it" period.

you will have to have mark expand upon the position that he "doesn't believe in it" period. from my perspective i do not embrace the 3d trappings and emotionality connected with the transition process we refer to as death. that does not mean that i do not "believe" that the physical body ceases functioning. it simply means the the ritualistic trappings that surrounds 3d death are not relative to the event they surround.

question: as an entity goes through the death process in 3rd density it finds itself in time/space. would you describe that?
ra: in space/time the spatial locations of different material objects, all of which appear in the visual field at the same instant of time, produces a tangible framework for the illusion of space. in time/space the inequity (i.e., the differences perceived?) is upon the shoulders of what you call time. this property renders entities and experiences intangible in a relative sense. correct, the "death process" is a transitioning back to our resident state of space/time. as referenced in a following quote before we each enter into any learn/teach situation for expansion, growth and becoming we choose the lessons that will be the lessons for that particular incursion. whether it is a situation where we utilize a 3d vehicle/existence or a situation where we utilize a 4d vehicle/existence does not matter we enter it after actively participating in planning our own growth exercises and challenges.

question: as this transition continues into 4th density activation, in order to inhabit this 4th density earth it will be necessary for all 3rd density physical bodies to go through the process which we refer to as death. is this correct?
ra: this is correct. [note: this is the most widely misunderstood quote in the law of one series. context reveals that ra is referring to a transmutation, not any type of death as we would normally think of it. this is an ecstatic feeling -- the most incredible moment of any lifetime you've ever had as a human being. i must at this point disagree with you. i have never found in all my years of study of the law of one ever found where ra either lied, misled, or failed to provided a correct response to a question asked. ra had all types of ability to provide a variety of responses that would prevent them from acting in a manner that would be contraindicative of all christ consciousness higher level beings. the question asked is clear and concise "through the process we refer to as death" and leaves little room for misunderstanding. the phrase "through the process we refer to as death" can only mean one thing that is the physical body ceases to function and we transition back to the conscious energy we are. beyond that point it does not mean that i have to transition all the way to space/time but it does mean that i have to "let go of the body". ra then confirms with no equivocation that the statement is an absolute. he did not say it was partially correct nor did he say it was incorrect. if your interpretation is correct then ra committed an act that reveals them as impostors as they would not be positive 6d christ consciousness.

elsewhere ra says you can reconstitute your third-density body after this happens if you so choose -- you simply have to focus on a "more difficult configuration" to get it back. we know this is possible already because of the many reports of those who have witnessed this being done. i will confirm this as being an absolute but it is not something that is routinely done or witnessed.

[continued in the following post]

[ulnanVti]

through wilcock, ra further revealed that there will be an et-assisted transition off of the earth plane prior to the 20-degree polar realignment. this highly joyful and even ecstatic transition will not seem like death at all, even though the time of 3rd density incarnation will come to a natural and unseen end along the way. i do not question what dw received, for as you point out the et-assistance does not have to be rendered to you in a physical body. i point out that you used the term "3rd density incarnation will come to a natural and unseen end". define for me if you will what the natural end of a 3rd density incarnation is please. the only "natural end" that i'm aware of for a 3rd density incarnation is "death". so based on your own words ra's original reply is still correct. the only way off this 3d rock is through "death".

ra: ...an entity able to program experiences may choose the number and the intensity of the lessons to be learned it is possible that an extremely positively oriented entity might program for itself situations testing the ability of the self to refrain from defensive action even to the point of physical death of self or other-self. this is an intensive lesson, and it is not known what entities have programmed for themselves. we may, if we desire, read this programming. however, this is an infringement and we choose not to do so. i alluded to this earlier. if you're here in a 3d incarnation you had the ability to "program experiences" and you chose the number and intensity of the lessons that you would be given during that incarnation. you also reviewed the basic parameters and outline of the life stream associated with that incarnation prior to all parties agreeing to your being granted permission for that incarnation. everyone on this planet today are of the "senior" group of "souls" as ra pointed out that incarnations have been allocated by priority to these types of entities for over a century during the lead up to harvest.

i thank you for demonstrating that death is not something to be feared nor is it something that should bring anguish to those who are still incarnate but is the simply transitioning after the conclusion of a "incarnation contract" back to our "static" state and should be look upon with celebration. as a species and through our "organized religions" we have turned death into something to be feared and dreaded which is a hoax and con simply to further establish control over the unknowing.

brother asa

[orillaVar]

in the 'who am i?' thread, mark recently wrote: "'death' could be the ultimate con... i personally don't believe there's any such thing. i don't believe in death..."

i forgot to point out dw wrote that note in the ra quotes.

i love what all you share, asa. thanks for being so awesome.

[www.forumsovetov.ru]

i believe that some are anxious of this event due to their grasping of the 3d physical standings. many have worked tirelessly over several years of their lifetime to achieve goals and desires. to say that all is for nigh, is to also say there lifetime is worthless. however, as some have pointed out, it is truly the journey which has worth, not the end result.

as you continue to say, letting go of the physical 3d body and it's positions is the true goal and gift to the world. the sooner one realizes they will inevitably die, the sooner one realizes their true place on this rock, in this 3d world, and the sooner they will come to peace with themselves.

love is not holding onto, rather it is the letting go of.

-apophis

[CymnMaync]

to backtrack a little and to add clarity to my original statement, (and to hopefully make amends for my lack of clarity) the original context of the discussion as perceived by myself had more to do with the popular perception which is tangled up with the word 'death'.

this spoke to the pervading fear in our society that death equals eternal oblivion of an entity; no afterlife, no soul or existence independant of the physical body. that so many have come to assume that no aspect of themselves exists beyond the physical biological framework suggests to me that many have been conned into holding this assumption. indeed, most of my relatives and friends assume that bodily death is the end of their existence, period.

the word 'death' may also be seen as meaning the ceasing of utilizing the outermost biological energetic shell which is the vehicle of expression in third density space/time, regardless of species. i suppose it may be useful to make this contextual distinction for the purpose of conversation of spiritual matters.

dw and others have put forth the concept of bodily ascension, a process wherein a spontaneous dna upgrade may potentially transmute the body into a vehicle of higher density expression, given sufficient experience with mastery of third density lessons and, in terms of en-masse ascension, a commensurate boost of outer energetic catalyst, perhaps coming in the form of a wave of fourth density energy which nudges the planet past the barrier between third and fourth density.

dw and others have cited much evidence of how a biological body may entirely leave our familiar universe, and a case in point is that an entire planeload of people may have left our normal space/time framework, passing into third density time/space - a realm of three dimensions, but reciprocally related to space/time in the sense that the roles of travel/duration are reversed - and re-appeared ten minutes later, with all on-board chronometers ten minutes advanced as compared to everyone else.

one wonders if the process 'we' loosely refer to as death can apply here in any of it's meanings, as for ten minutes these bodies did seemingly not exist in third density space/time.

if we take this as a conceptual starting point, and if it's possible that some mass, worldwide event occurs that removes us all from third density space/time in some form of harvest event, and our physical bodies no longer exist on third density space/time earth, and our physical bodies demonstrate a natural ability to be instantly transmuted into something very different - into forms which can be suited to other spheres of existance, might we not at least allow for the possibility that the definition of death as we know it be expanded to include the body's own ability to fundamentally alter its nature so as to be transformed into something which is no longer what we hold to be a physical biological body of third density space/time?

what do we really refer to as death? i agree that ra has not misled, but maybe they leave some things open to our own self-discovery.

the question offered by don elkins containing the phrase, 'process we refer to as death', perhaps refers to an assumption of the body in the form as we occupy now. i see nowhere that ra says that the body must rot and dissolve in third density space/time, in order to qualify as death. perhaps ra is being protective of our free will, so that we may explore the full connotations of the very energetically and emotionally charged word, 'death' so that we may be free to discover on our own, through research such as has been done by dw, the wider potentials of what ascension may entail.

i will add that i have no fear of dying, and giving my body over for spare parts, if it ever comes to that!

(ra's eplanation of the method of population of fourth density earth being bi-sexual reproduction may make for some hearty rebutting here, but that's a convo for another day.) mark

[Adfcvkdg]

mark,

you didn't think i was going to let you off the hook so easy, did you?

the word 'death' may also be seen as meaning the ceasing of utilizing the outermost biological energetic shell which is the vehicle of expression in third density space/time, regardless of species.

to my mind this isn't 3d "death" as we define it on this planet. this would be what i would term "ascension" or just simply having completed the "harvest" process such that i no longer need to incarnate into 3d.

dw and others have put forth the concept of bodily ascension, a process wherein a spontaneous dna upgrade may potentially transmute the body into a vehicle of higher density expression, given sufficient experience with mastery of third density lessons and, in terms of en-masse ascension, a commensurate boost of outer energetic catalyst, perhaps coming in the form of a wave of fourth density energy which nudges the planet past the barrier between third and fourth density.

since no one on this planet knows for sure what will happen and since there are really no right or wrong then this is simply a perception based upon what dw and others have found to be. i base my perception on two things, information as provided by ra and scientific evidence. but first let's set the stage:

19.7 questioner: then did this second-density to third-density transition take place 75,000 years ago? approximately?

ra: i am ra. this is correct.

19.8 questioner: where did the second-density beings get physical vehicles of third-density type to incarnate into?

ra: i am ra. there were among those upon this second-density plane those forms which when exposed to third-density vibrations became the third-density, as you would call the sound vibration, human entities.

that is, there was loss of body hair, as you would call it, the clothing of the body to protect it, the changing of the structure of the neck, jaw, and forehead in order to allow the easier vocalization, and the larger cranial development characteristic of third-density needs. this was a normal transfiguration.

19.9 questioner: over how long a period of time was this transfiguration? it must have been very short.

ra: i am ra. the assumption is correct, in our terms at least—within a generation and one-half, as you know these things. those who had been harvested of this planet were able to use the newly created physical complex of chemical elements suitable for third-density lessons. just as now, there were a lot of 2nd density entities that would not been at the end of the last great cycle sufficiently evolved that when exposed to 3rd density vibrations they would have been suitable 3rd density vehicles. when ra speaks to it being a generation and one-half as the time frame for its unfolding in response to a later question they give the information that at the beginning of the 3rd density cycle the average, the average, life span was 900 years. so one generation and one-half would have been a period of approximately 1300 years on average. based on archaeological records the oldest evidence that can be identified as a male ancestor of modern humans is roughly 60,000 to 65,000 years old. not bad considering that was during a period where there were no "burials" so evidence would not be too well preserved especially in a form that we could tell much about the body itself.

scientific data; approximately 75000 to 76000 years ago the tuba volcanic eruption occurred which released large volumes of sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere. [btw, i think that might have caused the sun to go dark for a while, maybe like days.] the entire homo sapien population was reduced to approximately 10,000 individuals. these transition individuals provided the "root stock" for the eventual population of the planet by what we are today. following the eruption was the tahoe glacial period where glaciers proceeded down through canada and into the northern u.s.

interestingly, about 50,000 ya (years ago), which is another of the harvest markers, something occurred as australia became very arid accompanied by bush fires that destroyed habitat and then there was megafauna die out. then about 25,000 ya (um, atlantis disappearance?) there was the taupo super volcanic eruption in new zealand followed by the tioga glacial maximum during which the ocean level was over 425 feet lower than it is today.

also since we're about scientific facts, remember that 125,00 ya the planet was warm enough [global warming] that hardwood forests grew above the arctic circle, there was megaflora and megafauna all through canada. during this period the ice sheets melted raising the ocean levels by 20 feet. all of this occurred without anthropomorphic greenhouse gases.

hey mark not done yet will catch some of the rest of your post in my next post.

light and love,

asa

[Preorbtat]

asa, are you sure you're not carla in disguise? alot of gelogy tucked away in that brain, lol. you are right on (i was a geology minor in colllege ages ago). good work, yes chris

[Essefsbyday]

i sure get the sense you're leading up to something, asa! anticipating mark

[DeedPatmeda]

this is a great conversation! on a side note, for many people of the fear associated with death is not necessarily a fear of the unknown or a fear of oblivion, but rather a fear of physical pain, of growing old, of losing one's mental and physical faculties, of those material things associated with death. some don't fear the transition itself but rather elements surrounding the transition.

i look forward to the rest of asa's thoughts connecting the loo ra material with scientific record.

in love and light,

fatima al zahra

[feroiodpiop]

"the secret to life is to 'die before dying' and find that there is no death."

—eckhart tolle

in death we shed the physical and become completely "source" but we have the ability to be both right now! meditation for centuries has been the key to just that—connecting and strengthening the coherence between you (physical) and you (source). now, more than ever, we are getting "back in touch" with ourselves through practicing the awareness of our inner energy in motion through our... e-motion. we can feel our souls! it feels like excitement, appreciation, joy, happiness, love, etc. and we use the free power of our thoughts to generate/manifest a real energetic response in our bodies. death is a con and another tool of perpetuating fear and disconnection. but we know better now, don't we? science is proving that "god" exists within and there is no need for the "religious middle man" any longer to tell us what to do so that we can be "saved".

much like there is no such thing as "cold", only a small amount of heat that we call "cold" (which is subjective because my mother-in-law is always boiling in her home while i freeze lol), there is no "death", only minimal amount of life; there is no "evil", only a minimal amount of good. this is becoming more evident as ancient secrets and forgotten knowledge comes to light.

[Piemonedmow]

dw and others have cited much evidence of how a biological body may entirely leave our familiar universe, and a case in point is that an entire planeload of people may have left our normal space/time framework, passing into third density time/space - a realm of three dimensions, but reciprocally related to space/time in the sense that the roles of travel/duration are reversed - and re-appeared ten minutes later, with all on-board chronometers ten minutes advanced as compared to everyone else.

i agree that is much evidence that biological bodies have shifted from our normal space/time into some other presence. to assume that such a shift went from our particular 3d space/time to our 3d time/space might be too quick as assumption. quantum physics says that there are parallel universes that exist right along side of this universe so to jump to the conclusion that any physical bodies transference arrives within not only our universe but that arrival is in sync with one of the upper dimensions associated with this planetary system would be to me inappropriate. we know from the philadelphia experiment that such shifts can occur but when attempted from forced action can have detrimental effects.

from the loo we know that the logos for this solar ring created "natural laws" that provide for the type chemical body that exists for manifestation within the 3d reality on this planet. so the question is; why would you want this particular form chemical body designed specifically for use on this planet to transfigure or transmute into anything else? there is already a general process within the universe that provides the mechanism for movement to and from the static energy state of our higher consciousness. we move from the use of this chemical body format back to our energetic selves then from there we have the ability to manifest directly into whatever container form is required for manifestation within any other logos created system.

the only reason i can see for all of this effort is to provide an avenue where the projections (ego/personality) of the mind/body portion of this 3d existence is maintained after the conversion to 4d. it would appear that this effort is simply a means for soothing the fear of an extinguishment of what we have wrongly become associated with as being us. all the mystery schools, all the ancient teachings, the loo, every reference is geared toward us embracing totally that we are not our egos or personalities therefore the transition from this manifestation back to static state is not accompanied by any loss.

unless we are chosen to be one of the transition team that remains with the planet and goes through the rigors of the shift from 3d to 4d, often referred to as the caretakers, there is no need of the physical body. we simply will pass to our static state and if we have sufficient levels of light then we will incarnate back onto the planet in a body that is either fully 4d compatible or at least a transitioning 4d body [one that may be more 4d and less 3d than the ones currently being produced]. when everything is said and done i would love to be one of the caretakers and will continue to strive toward gaining sufficient consciousness growth to achieve that level. if i fall short, so what, i'll just process through and then reincarnate into whatever learn/teach environment that will provide the growth i need.

one wonders if the process 'we' loosely refer to as death can apply here in any of it's meanings, as for ten minutes these bodies did seemingly not exist in third density space/time. well, i don't think during that ten minutes one would conclude that they experienced anything near the "death" process. the "death" process has various trademark attributes that seems to be universal to everyone's experience [check out the information available on nde experiences]. there are some "mystics" who are alive today on this planet that has experienced ldar [little death and resurrection] and you might want to check out what you can find on those experiences as they give more detail sometimes than the ndes. the key is that there are elements which are indentical throughout these experiences. the instances of bodily shifts from space/time do not manifest these same key elements so it would be difficult to say that the "death experience would apply in any of these instances.

more next time.

asa

[55Beaphable]

i agree that it might be too quick an assumption to conclude that any given physical shift would be into our own 3d time/space. that this may actually be common occurrence may yet be held open for consideration and discussion when we consider the apparent close relationship between space/time and time/space.

if we consider that both space and time may be three-dimensional, there may be a reciprocating relationship between these realms wherein the exchange of energies in the form of counter-rotating fields within a toroidal vortex mesh together for the mutual sustenance of both realms – in other words, the physical universe needs to be composed of both realms in order to manifest.

it may be true that there is a constant exchanging of all energies (between space/time and time/space) that constitute this universe, which universe in turn is manifest by nature of this counter-rotating interface – the spinning torsion fields which are behind all material manifestation and which result from this exchange.

we know that movement in space involves movement in time, thanks to experiments stemming from the theoretical science of einstein, and the experiments of david hudson of ormes fame also suggest that if you can excite atomic vibration of an object to light-speed you will succeed in apparently de-materializing the object, with the object returning intact when you lower the vibratory rate. to me this suggests a distinct possibility that this excitation is causing the object to move in and out of space/time, but if there is a reciprocal relationship between our two realms, what effect may this de- and re-materialization have in time/space?

it is merely a hunch, but perhaps what we take to be motion involved with speed of light travel is more closely associated with the inherently ‘still’ nexus point of a feedback loop which constitutes this interfacing between our two realms, and that this concept of light-motion when taken to this ‘tipping point’ characterized by the speed of light allows for the free and constant passage of energy between the two realms.

perhaps the apparency of light speed velocity is merely just that; an apparency, and more rightly we have no light velocity at all – only the nexus point of balanced, reciprocal equilibrium between the realms. (an arithmetic example of a reciprocal - 1/3 x 3/1 = one) also, (reciprocal in terms of this discussion – movement/duration x duration/movement = one)

again, i merely speculate with all this intellectually, but perhaps the incoming energies of fourth density serve to have our entire third density space/time planet’s energetic body as a whole, including all of us whom dwell here as being connected to earth’s energetic field, increase our overall vibration to a point where what has been termed the harvest is the flipping over of the whole planet worth of actuated biology into the ‘afterlife’ realm which is often thought of as time/space.

here, we now have third density space/time earth rendered unto potentiation, much as we see with venus or mars. the time/space realm however may still be in form of third density actuation for as long as it takes to have us all review our lives and distill the essence of our learned lessons. the ‘walking the steps of light’ may then take place from the time/space perspective, and thence we go to incarnate into our new bodies in whatever density or planetary home we choose, leaving third density time/space to fall into potentiation.

as for what has happened in the interim with our erstwhile physical bodies, i don't know - maybe our dna has always had written into it the potential to transform our bodies into many different forrms depending on the circumstance, including different orders and complexities of light body - we are already, after all, composed of light. keep in mind that the dna of a caterpillar already contains the pattern for it's metamorphized form, the butterfly. it only awaits the catalyst of energy derived from the consumption of the light stored in leaves to prompt the event.

please understand that nothing here is a conclusion of mine, or an assumption – merely a very tentative theoretical framework largely built by others which yet others may use as grist for the mill or otherwise.

thank you asa (a straight answer) for your inspiration and your amazing discernment, you’ve provoked some new ideas and stimulated my heart. mark

[Teeppoodiug]

one thing in relationship to all this that we may wish to consider is the ra-sourced and perplexing complication of the current harvest event; that at this historical juncture the planet shall no longer continue to host third density, unlike previous harvest junctures of this grand cycle.

densities one, two, and three co-exist here, and may not require separation of experiential harvest, even as previous harvest events might not require discrete differentiation of density separation.

given the pronouncements of the ra, and the scenario of the separation of experience between third and fourth, we are left with imagining a scenario wherein we shall soon, in terms of the grand @ 75,000 year cycle, no longer be here. if, as ra states, fourth density is electrically incompatible with third, and the planet will be fully fourth density by 2011 - 2013, may we take it as being suggested that harvest is imminent; and that the 100 - 700 year experience with transition may take place in some other place than where we are now?

i wonder if time/space considerations hold a key to figuring this out for ourselves. again, i welcome alternate suggestions, even as this harvest seems unlike the rest. mark

[Blellurgews]

mark,

i accept your speculation as a possibility as we do not know for sure one way or the other. however, i question the probability of such being the likelihood of the ways of the shift process. of course, all i have to go on is the supposed word of a 6th density social memory complex that has gone through the process at least three times--3rd to 4th, 4th to 5th, and 5th to 6th. since that information would be impressed upon the social memory consciousness and would be accessible to the individuals and the group as a whole i would say that ra would stand to have a better chance of knowing what he was talking about than someone in a heavy veiled 3d existence speculating on a way to preserve something that doesn't need preserving.

perhaps all the effort to prove ra incorrect has to do with the inability to become non-attached to various other-selves perceived as not making the grade. if i have utterly embraced and accepted the knowledge that i am not the body but instead an energetic consciousness that is eternal why would i even need to expend such effort in trying to come up with a new to preserve this body? if i have accepted the concept to that level then i would know that those other-selves were exactly as i and would also be going "through the same process" and would arrive wherever i will arrive at.

let's take a look at the early robots as an analogy. early robots had all kinds of abilities. they had locomotion, cameras for eyes, arm and devices for grasping, could make limited "unassisted" decisions [i.e., could change direction when encountering obstacles], etc., but there was always someone not too far away holding a controller who was actually the "man behind the curtain". obviously the person with the controller is not the robot and should that person decide to move up to activities not involving the robot why would they want to drag it along? alternately, if the controller person desired to move up to a newer more advanced robot with enhanced capabilities why would they not just junk the old robot when they received the new one?

i guess i'm missing the point of why all the effort to create a scenario where something that surely isn't needed will be maintained. so, mark, i'm asking if you would explain to me what the purpose of such a scenario would serve? especially, when it seems so obvious from the point of view, based on numbers of teachings, that the body is simply a controllable robot being controlled by our true essence which is indestructible.

btw, isn't any teach/learn, learn/teach spiritual situation supposed to stimulate the cosmic heart?

asa

"life is a game of charades"