[Amirmsheesk]

hello!

this perfectly fits in to my current situation. in a course of mediumship i'm attending i was asked to take two cards that should reflect how i should relate in my current relationships and what energies were coming for me this summer. the first said: "lying" with a picture i forgot and the other "rot" with pple holding hands in a circle and one standing outside it, alone...

at first i just shook my head and laughed, but slowly it made sense to me:; i have to withdraw from plle who are not supporting my spiritual path and i'm partly doing it by withholding the total "truth" about what i'm giong to do and why i can't see them. the thing is, that somehow circumstances arrange themselves so what i say somehow becomes true and the persons in question get occupied too in the end. i have to liberate myself from codependencypatterns so it's not that i want to do any harm.

as for the "rot"-card i'm not sure yet, but it might be that this will lead to the "rotting" of my sense of being outcast, connecting me with pple and circumstances where i can serve in the best way, not feeling rejected, laughed at, not respected for my knowledge etc. and then i can reconnect with old friends in amore relaxed way, not feeling separate just because i have to keep quiet about my big interest in the matters we're discussing here.

liliane the uranus opposite ascendant-transit

[Gogogo]

i have a question that needs answering, concerning free will choice.

i am quite familiar with the concept, but i am having trouble with one particular aspect of understanding free will choice - the act of abridging it.

what constitutes abridgment of free will choice?

for example, i wonder if you are tricked into giving consent that you otherwise would not give, is this abridgment?

is the act of lying to one, an abridgment?
is a misrepresentation to others also an abridgment?
is the deliberate withholding of facts to manipulate a behavior in others an abridgment too?
is giving consent to some act an abridgment of your free will when you do not have enough information to make a reasonable decision?

i do understand that free will choice to me necessarily means that any consent i give to a situation can be rescinded at any time with my simple declaration that it is not my free will choice anymore.

i am directly concerned about situations where one acts in their self-interest and contrary to you and does so without giving you direct knowledge, or else inferring that you made a free will consent.

anybody have an answer?

thanks in advance.

[Kubasarika]

hi edwardjs,
here's a quick analogy that might clear things up. consider every entity continuously constructing their path as they go, one stone at a time if you will. we as humans feel the urge to help others build their path. this is where free will gets thrown into a gray area. if an entity places a stone in someone else's path, when that entity reaches the end of the journey he/she has an obligation to return to that particular stone, remove it and replace it with their own. so preventing an entity from placing their own stone is an infringement upon free will, and also has a karmic effect. what we are encouraged to do instead is put up sign posts along the path giving them free will to observe it. planting seeds in other words. it is important to forget about the seeds that we plant, for example we shouldn't check up on others to see if they looked at our signs. their may be instances where an entity desperately needs our help and asks us to place a stone on their path, it is our responsibility at this point to make it clear to them that they will, at some point, need to return to replace the stone, perhaps at a later time when sufficient energy is replenished. this would clear the helper of any karmic reaction and would preserve free will.........................sylvain..................

[Eujacwta]

hi edwardjs,
here's a quick analogy that might clear things up. concider every entety continuously constructing their path as they go, one stone at a time if you will. we as humans feel the urge to help others build their path. this is where free will gets thrown into a grey area. if an entety places a stone in someone elses path, when that entety reaches the end of the journey he/she has an obligation to return to that particular stone, remove it and replace it with their own. so preventing an entety from placing their own stone is an infrigement upon free will, and also has a karmic effect. what we are encouraged to do instead is put up sign posts along the path giving them free will to observe it. planting seeds in other words. it is important to forget about the seeds that we plant, for example we should'nt check up on others to see if they looked at our signs. their may be instances where an entety despretly needs our help and asks us to place a stone on their path, it is our responsibility at this point to make it clear to them that they will, at some point, need to return to replace the stone, perhaps at a later time when sufficient energy is replenished. this would clear the helper of any karmic reaction and would preserve free will.........................sylvain..................

i kind of understand this, but what does this mean in 3d terms.

is okay to lie to someone or mislead them?

paul

[Kubasarika]

i see what your asking, i can only offer my point of view. i would rather look at it in terms of withholding truths. there are subtle situations where a person can recognize an other's opportunity for growth and could find themselves quieting down even though they know the answer, giving the other person the chance to figure it out for themselves.

in the case of service to self, lies and deceptions are the name of the game, seeds of the negative path. in the case of service to others, the understanding of the ramifications of such behavior is meticulously observed as infringement upon free will and is to be treated as such. the law of one does state that the majority of our thoughts and action should be positive in the case of service to others, but what about the rest of our thoughts and actions, nobody is perfect? so if it happens, hopefully a lesson can be extracted and perhaps a level of growth............................sylvain......... .............

[AntonayPina]

@purple dragon

i agree with you about hate, hate is spoiled energy, which you only make your enemy (the hated one) stronger with. but i have some questions regarding following ;

they have the right of free will to control and manipulate those that choose to be controlled and manipulated. do "they" also have the right to manipulate and control those that do not want to be manipulated and controlled?

does the raper has the right to rape his victim? what about the free will of the victim?

is free will to be seen as an instrument which you can take the free will away of others with?

is there no difference between free will and free handling?

if you have the right of free will, dont you have the duty to respect others their free will? because they have also the right of free will.

blessings, ld.

[zlopikanikanz]

if you have the right of free will, dont you have the duty to respect others their free will? because they have also the right of free will.

for those of us on the path towards sto, yes we will most definitely respect the free will of others but unfortunately we are at a definite disadvantage towards sts for sure. it's just like all the good guy-bad guy shows. the good guy doesn't cheat but the bad guy does. but who usually ends up winning :d

the other key thing to remember is every action is a catalyst for learning. we have chosen our path before we were born, so if one murders another, the victim has actually chosen that path for a reason. one thing ra has said is that the victim actually chooses this path in order to help form a catalyst for another-self to help them. almost like the good guy throwing himself in front of a bullet to save someone.

remember we always have a choice to how we feel, and although we can choose to get as much information as we can in order to avoid being manipulated, the sts try to trick us into following them as voluntary slaves. and it's worked for many century's, but their time is running out. quickly. we are awakening and we won't be afraid to spread our love and awaken others to spread their love.

[AntonayPina]

@purple dragon

you have a funny way of thinking. i believe we are not in disadvantage to sts, once you have knowlegde enough you realise the others are another me. the bad guy might win the show, but will he win in reality too? and what will he win? he will become one with an illusion, not with the one. i do agree there are people who try to enslave the others, but i believe there is an effective defence againt that, and that is to me knowledge, kwoledge of self to come to knowledge of others and realise ther just another self like you.


the other key thing to remember is every action is a catalyst for learning. we have chosen our path before we were born, so if one murders another, the victim has actually chosen that path for a reason. one thing ra has said is that the victim actually chooses this path in order to help form a catalyst for another-self to help them. almost like the good guy throwing himself in front of a bullet to save someone. has ra said that this is allways like that, like this is a law? i believe ra stated that this was a posibility. like you put it, it looks like a murderer is doing nothing wrong, because the victim has chosen to be murdered. it is not always like this. you say we chose our path before we were born here. yes thats correct, but you stil have to walk that path, only by walking it you give form to it. so because we chose a path it is not solide yet, so that choice does not create the path. the walking does. if everything is absolute and solid before you were born, then free will coud not be in the game. to the warrior walking the path is the most important, not the goal. because the goal can change as you walk your path.

blessings, ld

[zlopikanikanz]

i believe we are not in disadvantage to sts, once you have knowlegde enough you realise the others are another me. the bad guy might win the show, but will he win in reality too? and what will he win? he will become one with an illusion, not with the one.

i totally agree with you, with just a side note that some bad guys will win their 4th density path, just as we will win ours. i`m not saying anyone lose`s, just that we have the choice to choose either path.

so because we chose a path it is not solide yet, so that choice does not create the path. the walking does. if everything is absolute and solid before you were born, then free will coud not be in the game. to the warrior walking the path is the most important, not the goal. because the goal can change as you walk your path. i do agree that the journey is the most important thing, and we need to learn along the way and depending on the life, we will learn different aspects of ourselves. but although the path we walk may be different in each life, i believe the goal never changes as the ultimate goal is to become one with the creator and learn as much as we can about ourselves along the way. this is a reason why i also believe it is very important to have both sto and sts paths, for we need to learn both aspects of ourselves, to each extreme. but we as entities have the choice what aspects we want to learn, and that is definitely the fun part :d

[AntonayPina]

hi purple one

i agree the ultimate goal never changes, this is being one. but when we walk our path we choose goals to go forward, don juan tells that we walk our path in the movement which is like the movement of the snake. he also tells that there were very wise and powerful magicians who tried to walk the path streigt to the ulimate goal. and they have a problem now. the have lost there connection with this world. that's a problem for them because they originally inteted to help the world with it. so they try to make contact in our dreams, maybe channeling etc

i often think about the ra entity in this way. witouth the people of the ra soul group the entity has nu hands, no eyes, no feet to move things to do things. the ra entity is like a tree, alltough it is not able to move, it moves averything around him. look what happened afther the channeling of the ra material. thousands of people have read it, and are thinking and debating about it. david has worked it out, the law of one, the free will the sts/sto thing, this is old knowledge brought back to life. so this ra entity is very smart, it knows that it has to activate as many people of the soulgroup as it can. and then the ra entity will have hands again, eyes again, and it wil speak again. many of you here on the forum are those hands those eyes the voice. think about it david is not the only one of the ra gruop. and besides that there are many other group entities such as the one of christ, boedha, and padmasambhava, there were many masters thet walked the face of the earth, and they all have soul groups. there are even people wo are part of different soul groups.

i have never been channeled i guess that's not my path. to me it happens in another way, i had lucid dreams, obe, in which i had dinner with jesus, our a lesson from the boedha under the tree. many people say well that's nothing but a dream. but to me they are alive and kickin and the are real. reality doesnt stop were the body ends.i cannot tell you how this works it has always been there, from when i was a little child. i'm hoping next time to have dinner with ra in his flying pyramid.:d

blessings, ld.

[c6vkuNRg]

the other key thing to remember is every action is a catalyst for learning. we have chosen our path before we were born, so if one murders another, the victim has actually chosen that path for a reason. one thing ra has said is that the victim actually chooses this path in order to help form a catalyst for another-self to help them. almost like the good guy throwing himself in front of a bullet to save someone.

how do we know which path we have chosen before we are born, as human beings dont seem to have any memory of this, i think this could be the answer to knowing why we are here because of the path we chose, so are we really supposed to be finding the answer to this, or is it to say that we chose the path of good or bad, personally i am a good person am not perfect but i feeel & sense am on the good path to things. now am confused lol.

[zlopikanikanz]

how do we know which path we have chosen before we are born, as human beings dont seem to have any memory of this, i think this could be the answer to knowing why we are here because of the path we chose, so are we really supposed to be finding the answer to this, or is it to say that we chose the path of good or bad, personally i am a good person am not perfect but i feeel & sense am on the good path to things. now am confused lol.

the earth world we are all in right now is like a 'training ground' for us to make the decision on the sto or the sts path. lorddragon made a very good point when saying we need to be aware of the path while we walk it, as it winds like a snake. if we only think of the ultimate goal, we may miss the journey causing us to miss the learning.

i think our main objective on this planet is just as simple as learning who we are. we make choices every day that help us figure out if we are doing things for others or for ourselves, though this to can get confusing as sometimes we need to do things for ourselves in order to help others. everyone's path will be different, as we all are trying to learn different things. if you believe in reincarnation, this life could be looked at as our time to make our final choice, as it is time to move into 4d.

[freflellalafe]

only true thing is ra material.

to play devils advocate here - i would advise to be careful not to follow anything blindly, and that includes ra material. we are here because of course it resonates with us as truth, and we feel and believe it is truth - including me - but it shouldn't be considered the only source out there; and if we think ra is only truth then we blind ourselves to any other source that may come to us. ra is just one group of collective souls, we dont want to discount what they would have to say either.

if you have the right of free will, dont you have the duty to respect others their free will? because they have also the right of free will.

in every scenario we retain our free will. we choose how we respond to things that happen. sometimes we attract the negative things that cause something seemingly against our free will - but every step of the way, we choose. for example a woman who is raped, can choose to remain a victim, or become stronger from it - for example there are woman who use what happened to them to become stronger people, and help others.
what we think, we invite, we attract, in alot of cases as well. if we think negative things we attract negative things. but even when they come to us we make choices, even if sometimes we dont like the choices presented to us.
if someone attacks us, we make the choice to let them attack us. we make the choice to feel the fear they try to perpetuate. like, its their free will to create the condition, but its our free will to manifest the response.

how do we know which path we have chosen before we are born, as human beings dont seem to have any memory of this, i think this could be the answer to knowing why we are here because of the path we chose, so are we really supposed to be finding the answer to this,

we remember all when we are in between births, we only forget once we come into the 3d body. so if we decide to be murdered for our next life, because its whats needed for us to learn something new or maybe help another learn something - we know this prior to our birth in that life. only after the birth we lose memory of our ultimate path. in the end all that we set out for ourselves is specifically towards our spiritual growth.

[AntonayPina]

hi aqcheryl

with the frase "if everything was solid and absolute before you're born" i ment that in that case there is no free choice no free will, you can not change direction, subgoal etc on the path. the path is formed by walking it, so when we are not here in a body we sort of dream ourselves a path into this world again, but arrived here in a body we are immediatly experiencing all kind of things and we are processing new data. this new data maybe in our choices we make. so also to make choices on the walking of the path. off course in reality we can have both, but that is because there is no "absolute". so i better had formed my frase like this? imagine everything would be absolutely predesteny, then free will would be abstract.

i believe the predestination thing is about the potential, at one moment in time, looking from a certain viewpoint we see the potential in a certain path and we choose to walk it, but right after that moment there is another moment in which we again can choose but because have other data we now wil choose to take another way (subgoal) so like the movement of the snake we walk our path.

purple dragon says it in a beutifull way

if we only think about the ultimate goal, we may mis the journey causing us to mis the learning. that's so right! if we would walk in a straight line we would miss the actual journey. the warrior knows that he cannot reach the ultimate goal this way. so the path becomes the most important, you are completely free to choose subgoals, to make it an experience of maximuum learning. because all is one, one is walking his/her path for all. become one as you life trough your own creation.

blessings, ld.

[c6vkuNRg]

so basically, like i have been doing, learn from your experiences, ases things & ask questions to better understand your self & others you effect around you, for e.g when i had a relationship go wrong & we moved on i would reflect on what i did wrong or what the other person had done wrong to me, & take these lessons learned to the next fresh relationship, therefore i think when we have learned from our mistakes we grow mentally spiritually emotionally. i think the saying is you never learn anything unless you make mistakes. but to still be concious of being on a path of being a good person & still be seeking knowledge & answers, hope this makes sense

[dubballey]

free will does not allow, nor would predetermination disallow. rather the law of confusion offers a free reach for the energies of each mind/body/spirit complex. the verb, to allow, would be considered pejorative in that it suggests a polarity between right and wrong or allowed and not allowed.

seems to me free will is not something you can actually abridge. you can try, but it's impossible because free will is an innate quality of existence.

when someone inflicts their will on another, free will is not being abridged, because the other has chosen freely to be treated this way. the error is in the attempt to abridge free will, because the attempt fails to recognize the oneness of all things and the love in every moment.

if you gaze at the creation about you and all you see is the creator, then it's impossible to attempt to abridge free will because everything is done with the knowledge of oneness and imbued with love.

[freflellalafe]

with the frase "if everything was solid and absolute before you're born" i ment that in that case there is no free choice no free will, you can not change direction, subgoal etc on the path. the path is formed by walking it, so when we are not here in a body we sort of dream ourselves a path into this world again, but arrived here in a body we are immediatly experiencing all kind of things and we are processing new data. this new data maybe in our choices we make. so also to make choices on the walking of the path. off course in reality we can have both, but that is because there is no "absolute". so i better had formed my frase like this? imagine everything would be absolutely predesteny, then free will would be abstract.

so then you mean if like our paths never had forks in the road, regardless that each fork is predestined itself? just one straight path? i think maybe theres still a chance of free will even then. because just because our higher selves would lay this out for us, it wholly depends on us staying on the path set for us. so in that sense, the pre-destined path can only serve as no more than a guide.

so in a sense pre-destiny even in a straight path is not absolute. lol it can get a bit mind-boggling lol

so basically, like i have been doing, learn from your experiences, ases things & ask questions to better understand your self & others you effect around you, for e.g when i had a relationship go wrong & we moved on i would reflect on what i did wrong or what the other person had done wrong to me, & take these lessons learned to the next fresh relationship, therefore i think when we have learned from our mistakes we grow mentally spiritually emotionally. i think the saying is you never learn anything unless you make mistakes. but to still be concious of being on a path of being a good person & still be seeking knowledge & answers, hope this makes sense

i think so - i think you can have an equal balance of following your path, knowing you walk one, and not lose sight of it. because you dont get lost in it. its like living in the now, versus constantly striving for the future. as much as its important to plan for the future, we must always live in the now as well, for equal balance.
i think its not just about learning mistakes, and responsibility for our actions, but forgiveness not just towards the opposing party but for ourselves as well. im learning this is one of the steps to loving yourself is to forgive yourself.

[DebtDetox]

i would rather look at it in terms of withholding truths. there are subtle situations where a person can recognize an other's opportunity for growth and could find themselves quieting down even though they know the answer, giving the other person the chance to figure it out for themselves.

i look at gathering information like taking vitamins and minerals. what your body doesn't need at that time, it flushes out or reserves for later use.

we're all guided, in some way. our 'good' guides reserve information we hear/read for a time in our development when we need it and can utilize it properly.
any 'bad' entities hanging around us will only be able to use information that is forced into us or we go running after of our own free will. this is why i feel it's bad to try and pound information into someone, it breaks the rule of free will, and is more often than not used to push people toward the negative path.

better to, as silvanus says, leave 'seeds' where we're guided to leave them. because trying to force your will on someone is going against the natural 'good' guides all people have, which creates bad karma for you, in the long run.

[mikefertynnz]

free will = absolute personal responsibility.

do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. love is the law, love under will.

one creation, one will.

no separation.

how could that will be usurped?!

all is as it should be, has been, will be...

[BruceCroucshs]

one creation, one will.

no separation.

how could that will be usurped?!

which also implies that there is no such thing as personal will. the only will there is, is that of intelligent infinity