[Wezfyowk]

looking at this issue from the a 4d heart chakra based view, karmic action when released without conditions reflects the working of the law and circulates love to the whole of creation in an unconditional way that creates prosperity for the whole, with each entity being an integral part of it. so the notion of economy on a cosmic level is an exchange of values between self as itself. does the taking from the whole without returning value to the holocosm reflect sts or sto? we can see many examples of each orientation if we look closely at ourselves throughout human history. when a forest is clearcut by large corporate interests, a disintegration occurs where entire species can be wiped out over night. the web of life is effected by every input placed into it. as we sow, so do we reap. karmic law is a mirror in which there is opportunity to see ourselves as we are or in distortion.

[Unrersvar]

i'll take the karmic hit thankyou very much.

spending a small fortune for sound compressed onto a piece of plastic is not my idea of fun.

[CGH1KZzy]

well i thought the karmic hit would be if you went into the music industry and started having alot of trouble getting fans for all the music you downloaded, or it just means that it's more of a service to self thing. because you could listen to underground artists and musicians that aren't in the mainstream, and those individuals don't have the income to buy the ivory back scratcher so really downloading their music is just making it harder for them, but really couldn't that just be karma for them?

[triarmarm]

to me, a musician, i think there has to be an exchange of some sort. if someone downloads my album for free, they better be coming to my gig, or buying my merchandise, or sending me a letter! an energetic exchange must take place, be that physical or emotional.

radiohead had the right idea, their last album was released on the internet, and you could pay as much, or as little as you wanted for the basic album download. if you bought the full album with artwork etc there was a reasonable charge applied. they are of course in a position where they can afford to do so, but so would anyone who could write music as engaging as they do.

musicians should play for the playings sake, fullstop. if someone else digs that, surely you gotta find a way to make sure they can continue making the music you enjoy?

the karmic hit could come from the inbalance you create if you do not return some 'energy' back to the artist. be that buying their stuff, going to a gig or letting them live on your living room floor.

i doubt that the karmic hit comes from breaking a law of the land. that would just be insane.

[Amirmsheesk]

well i surely hope for a "karmic hit" with my "nep-tunes" before going into 4d....but i can wait until 4d, then the problem probably doesn't even exist...

liliane

[DadaSeeva]

i have worked as music producer/songwriter for many years in germany

and came to the conclusion it is simple a lobby like any other business!

no chance for a "good" artist to advance if he does not match the lobby rules

either in terms of looks, message or or or


so though i love music more than anything i became discouraged and

thought this will never make me happy and i will probably keep working

as a slave for executives fulfilling their exact rules for minimum wage

so i quit!

and since then i do only music for my own band with own messages that

seem to be of value to me - i am following my heart's desire so to speak

and until now we only have some songs on myspace freely to hear.

our plan is to finish our first album (within the next month)

and then put it available to be bought on itunes and alike

not necessarily to gain income from sellings but to be within the worldwide

distribution network - everyone knows to grow our "fanbase"

the plan is to focus on live gigs and playing live as much as possible

all around the world!

so if you really like an artist after you downloaded his music

you would do him and yourself a favor to buy his material

especially if he is not backed by a record company -

this means the artist need all the support he/she/they can get

i must admit i do not always accomplish this -

so i should also practice what i "preach" more consistently

love and light my friends!

alex

[arriftell]

i also agree with the latest posts.

personally, i feel karma "hits" on me almost instantly as we approach the transition, so i am immediately notified if i do wrong things. and i have downloaded lots of music. nothing came back.

it's just downloadable data after all, bits, zeroes and ones. expecting to forbid such data from circulating the internet is like trying to forbid evolution.

i'm a programmer and i get paid for developing software that can be pirated. we've developed ways to prevent that but it's still happening.
thinking about it though, those who use pirated versions would never actually agree to be paying customers, right? so after all there is no loss for the company. you can't forbid them to use the software but they can't make money off it, or they get caught. that sounds fair to me.

would be nice if applicable in music industry as well.

i also think that if you have to "push" someone to pay for something he doesn't feel like paying, you're not a very keen businessman.

[Dumpishchaism]

i download tons of music, but pay .99 per song on a site i probably can't say. its nice to just get a certain song you like instead of buying the whole album. at first it was free when downloading songs but not worth it. the chance of getting viruses and songs that are not in good quality any ways.

another thing i noticed to is why would they taking down music vids on utube. you would think it would raise sales on music if they leave the vids on.

[jokilewqs]

i find this thread interesting, so i'll post a few of my own observations on karma and sts and sto

in any decision you make, there is the chance to be sts and sto. if you are an sto, then an sts decision gives you a karmic hit.. same goes for sts and a sto decision (and this might be the case if our own world was not in fact working towards a sto vibration, be thankful for that!) there are other worlds where that is the case.

so in every decision you have to ask yourself, am i doing this out of service to myself, or out of service to others? there is no magical set or rules to follow, no 10 commandments as they were, while they are good guideposts, it comes down to weather you are serving yourself or others.

now. who's job is it to enforce karma? you yourself monitor the karma for yourself in order to help educate yourself on the lessons you've decided to learn in this life time. the same goes for the record company ceo's and any of the rest of the scumbags charging way more than is necessary for any service what so ever! so don't think that for one moment its ok to steal from them because your 'teaching them a lesson' cause its not your job. your job is to remove their power by a) not fighting against them and b) finding a better way and thus forcing them to change or die. david has discussed this many times, that the nwo won't be defeated by a hale of flaming arrows, but rather by people removing their power and saying, 'we forgive you for what you've done, but we will not allow you to do it any more'

i listen to pandora. i deal with the pop up ads and advertisements. i type in 'free music' and download songs that artists are willing to upload for free, not ones that have been uploaded illegally. i think 99c a song is a pretty good price when you can pick and choose the songs you want rather than other songs you would rather do without. yes the system is broken, yes people's greed and selfish nature tend to skew the ideals of honest enterprise and business. our job is to find another way.

i gave the thought experiment a try, as to how sites like this and others can operate for free and end up do so without impacting their own lives in a negative manor. i soon realized that in order for any one to give things away for free.. everything has to be free as well. the site they use to host, the electricity used to run the site.. the food they get, the fuel they use, the home they live in, the computer they use etc etc etc.. that is the only way a free system works because the second any one charges one mote for what they do, it ripples down the line and effects every one. in the end, it is a tangible expression of the exchange of energy from one person to the next. that in itself doesn't mean that money is wrong. its how it's used that is wrong, not the money itself. 'the love of money is the root of all evil'

an example of free things on the net. ubuntu (free desktop os) open office (free productivity tools). basically they can do this because their source code is free for any one to download, modify and redistribute. in essence the pay back is people improving the system over time, and those enhancements make it into the official releases over time. often times these systems get money back by offering paid professional service to help with problems and issues (say to a company who would like to use it and can't afford to have their system tank for any amount of time.) examples of free systems are out there and there is no reason they can't be used in other systems, it just needs intelligent people to figure it out.

[freflellalafe]

ive seen david reference this before, and you know its the one thing ive disagreed with him on so far. i agree with david on many things, but on this i feel he has taken something that is opinion based and has inadvertently taken it out of context.

it boils down to this. say you worked a very long time handcrafting sculptures, and you put them on the table for sale, and someone comes up and takes one without paying - thats theft. now this person that stole that item, goes to a passerby and says hey buy this from me. thats whats happening in the entertainment industry. when you buy music or video or text, it goes to everyone else (call them group a) but the artist(group b). and these people are charging exorbitant amounts so they are ripping off both the artist and the consumer.

this part gets into opinion and just that - is it theft when you download music without paying group a - especially when essentially they are selling you nothing. they didnt do anything for you, they are not giving you an equal trade. you are not receiving anything that comes from them. but roundabout, is it not theft when you download for free, because even if an artist gets .1 cent out of that 16.99 cd, its the principle and not the amount... you are still taking from the artist. so the [rhetorical] question here is is it not theft when taking from group a.... but is when taking from group b?

in my personal opinion - not agreeing to pay group a's prices is standing up and saying "i wont be enslaved to your thievery". there is no karmic imbalance for that. to take directly from the person who did the time, labor, and craftmanship - there is bad karma. to me, the solution then is to buy directly from the artist when at all possible. and it is possible, thanks to the theory of complex adaptive systems - which is that when one thing becomes too large (and usually negative) it collapses upon itself as a new system emerges and evolves into a higher level.

thanks to the internet, we now have artists who can sell as directly to the consumer as possible. they upload their music to an online store and the consumer buys directly from that store. a prime example of this is actually divine cosmos - david is the artist here - and he put his material up directly for sale. we are the consumers - we buy directly from him - and therefore outside of costs of maintaining the store, david receives the money directly. it doesnt get passed from hand to hand with everyone taking a little here and there.

in fact i saw one video promo done by a band saying that you could go to their store and buy their album for like $7.99. you could buy the single for .99. then if you get the single, and decide you want the album, you can get the album at lesser cost - because you already bought the single.

thats the solution here. buy directly from the artist. do not buy from any other source.

on a final note, i would feel its naive or a little too impulsive to say it has negative karmic consequences because its simply the law. in this case we are referencing whose law here? not the universal one - but the one made by man. and just because its law does not mean its a morally correct one. just for example, we now have a law that they dont need a warrant to come into your house. do we say its the law and leave it at that?

[traithJah]

ive seen david reference this before, and you know its the one thing ive disagreed with him on so far. i agree with david on many things, but on this i feel he has taken something that is opinion based and has inadvertently taken it out of context.

it boils down to this. say you worked a very long time handcrafting sculptures, and you put them on the table for sale, and someone comes up and takes one without paying - thats theft. now this person that stole that item, goes to a passerby and says hey buy this from me. thats whats happening in the entertainment industry. when you buy music or video or text, it goes to everyone else (call them group a) but the artist(group b). and these people are charging exorbitant amounts so they are ripping off both the artist and the consumer.

this part gets into opinion and just that - is it theft when you download music without paying group a - especially when essentially they are selling you nothing. they didnt do anything for you, they are not giving you an equal trade. you are not receiving anything that comes from them. but roundabout, is it not theft when you download for free, because even if an artist gets .1 cent out of that 16.99 cd, its the principle and not the amount... you are still taking from the artist. so the [rhetorical] question here is is it not theft when taking from group a.... but is when taking from group b?

in my personal opinion - not agreeing to pay group a's prices is standing up and saying "i wont be enslaved to your thievery". there is no karmic imbalance for that. to take directly from the person who did the time, labor, and craftmanship - there is bad karma. to me, the solution then is to buy directly from the artist when at all possible. and it is possible, thanks to the theory of complex adaptive systems - which is that when one thing becomes too large (and usually negative) it collapses upon itself as a new system emerges and evolves into a higher level.

thanks to the internet, we now have artists who can sell as directly to the consumer as possible. they upload their music to an online store and the consumer buys directly from that store. a prime example of this is actually divine cosmos - david is the artist here - and he put his material up directly for sale. we are the consumers - we buy directly from him - and therefore outside of costs of maintaining the store, david receives the money directly. it doesnt get passed from hand to hand with everyone taking a little here and there.

in fact i saw one video promo done by a band saying that you could go to their store and buy their album for like $7.99. you could buy the single for .99. then if you get the single, and decide you want the album, you can get the album at lesser cost - because you already bought the single.

thats the solution here. buy directly from the artist. do not buy from any other source.

on a final note, i would feel its naive or a little too impulsive to say it has negative karmic consequences because its simply the law. in this case we are referencing whose law here? not the universal one - but the one made by man. and just because its law does not mean its a morally correct one. just for example, we now have a law that they dont need a warrant to come into your house. do we say its the law and leave it at that?

yes! this is my point as well. it is the death of the music industry. not the death of the musician. if you ask me, those shady music executives had this coming to them. buy directly from your artist now. a lot of artists are sharing their albums via p2p for free and then asking for donations if you like it.

ultimately it has always been up to us to sponsor our favorite artists all along. i have been dubbing records and tapes since i was a kid. ripping and burning and everything. i rarely bought anything anyway, long before the internet was available.

it is time to change. you just can't stop this flow of info. so just relax and go with the flow.

@ xlsander

i listened to your stuff. quality man. keep nurturing your baby and it will grow into a wild animal, one day, that will not be denied. if you ever play in ny send me a pm and i will be there to support.

[Dumpishchaism]

i agree with this that the music industry does make profits selling albums. if you go to the store and want all the best songs sang by that artist you will get a few good songs on each album sold seperately. so actually you end up paying more for a few songs. unless they are a fan of the artist and not just the music. i enjoy the music and get the songs that make people/us feel good. just fun loving music as it was intended. it has turned into a huge profit for these companies. when i download music its because i enjoy the music and others who do the same.

[Druspills]

to johnasmodeus,

in response to your question about why you would get a 'karmic hit' from downloading music.
i believe when david made this statement he was talking about the idea that if people begin expecting free entertainment then they may miss opportunities to develop they’re own creativity.

[traithJah]

this is in dw's latest blog entry:

the failed economy has led an entire generation to feel like they don’t have to pay for their music. this is actually bad karma, and unfortunately when you do this you are forcing your higher self to balance you out by having losses in some other area.

i understand why it’s being done, but you are ultimately only answerable to yourself in the higher sense — no one else. there are those who believe that information simply should be free and that the metering of information is similar to the metering of energy. i remember an american indian saying once (i can't remember the exact quote), "why pay for the energy that god gives freely?" in other words, the effort to meter information and energy is just another scheme for people to amass wealth. which leads to, the effort to control and meter information is just as much bad karma as people who try to share it freely. like when tesla was working on creating free energy and j.p. morgan did not like the idea, because where do you put the meter? morgan stopped funding and tesla's wardencliffe tower was destroyed & taken down.

trent reznor, leader of the band "nine inch nails" (nin) has always admitted that he is a big fan of illegally sharing music. he said he loved the website "oink" which, until it was shut down, was probably the most famous illegal file sharing website next to napster and now the pirate bay. in fact he decided to give his latest album away for free on his website nin.com. the greatest irony of this is that i went into the virgin megastore the other day to check out the new releases and the same nin record that he was giving away for free was selling like hot cakes. seems counter intuitive doesn't it? along with that there has been a big resurgence of nin popularity since the free release of his album.

also, i was reading that the monopoly that the music industry had over distributing it's recordings is only a tiny little blip in the full history of people who make their living as musicians. only since the invention of the record and the record player has the "music industry" been so profitable. music has always been based on performance and it always will be. we are not seeing the death of music but the death of the hugely corrupt and inflated music industry. music will never die because the universe is made of it. and as long as there are artists that have the popularity to fill large stadiums then they will continue to do just that. and be paid handsomely for it. sorry but i am not shedding too many tears for those corrupt men in monkey suits who trick artists into signing these crappy three album deals. and, as an artist myself, i am not shedding any tears for any artists that think they can record a five minute track and then sit back and collect royalties for the rest of their life. if artists want to be more profitable then they need to focus on the quality of their craft, and their worth, based on demand, will grow.

i can't help but think that dw may be a little bitter that he has a new album out and he is afraid it will be pirated which will cut down his profits. is this the true motivation behind his statement?

maybe i am completely wrong.

[BariGrootrego]

since all laws are passed in a sane and logical manner, with everyone's best interests at heart, then if the law says something is bad, then it must be.

erm, i hope you will take the time to reconsider what you just wrote here. "sane and logical manner" is not presenting a bill to be voted on with no debate, or, voting for a bill without first reading it (take the patriot act for example.) "with everyone's best interests at heart" is not when a bill, like the federal reserve act for example, is written by individuals (bankers) who are not elected representatives to the people's house.

and, most certainly, lincoln enacting "law" (through executive means) in order to deport congressman because they disagreed with him politically, certainly isn't good - unless you do believe that all politicians should agree with the president on everything without separation of power/political opinion.

in my opinion, it is the trust the people have placed in bureaucrats to solve our problems (especially now regarding economics and monetary policy) is why our currency's value is dissolving.

[inilbowly]

as i weigh on this question, one of the ten commandments comes to mind

" thou shalt not steal "

explaining on this act, when one assumes, based on their own will, they are entitled to another's item (will) by taking what is not meant to be given freely by that person or representive, it is a form of stealing something that is not yours. we are also judging to the conidtions of how to obtain something that is not currently ours.

as i agree, everything should be available to each of us., without conditions, it is also the the underlining spiritual growth we are seeking to become, to give freely and unconditionally from our hearts. the conditions or un-conditionals comes from each of us, by the creator's gift of our power of free will.

we can not assume, we are entitled without asking the will of another, you are stepping into their free will which they may have applied a value to what you want.

perhaps the true question, is more related to the type of exchange for goods or services we offer to one another. it does not always have to default to $$, it could be trades, service, ious type stuff. trade a cd for another type of arrangement.

[DadaSeeva]

@ xlsander

i listened to your stuff. quality man. keep nurturing your baby and it will grow into a wild animal, one day, that will not be denied. if you ever play in ny send me a pm and i will be there to support.

i just read that - thank you so so much!

and yes i also believe it is the end of the music industry and far away from the end of music - the internet opens so many doors!

and it is easy to get your own material placed on itunes or alike for people to support you with 99c per song - the only thing here lies within the huge choice available to chose from - however - then the best you can do is go out there have people see you play live and if they like what they see hear they will find you!

adonai my friends!

[myhackingtosh_ws]

as i weigh on this question, one of the ten commandments comes to mind

" thou shalt not steal "

i'd just like to point out that piracy is not stealing, but copyright infringement. there's a crucial difference between taking an object, and copying an object leaving it untouched. this whole debate is not about whether stealing is wrong or not, because everyone knows that stealing is wrong. what this debate boils down to is whether an authority should be allowed to own pure information. should information be free for everyone to share? or should it be constricted, controlled and distributed by authority? one can draw parallels between the situation as it is today and contents in the law of one material.

the "old" world order is a typical sts hierarchy. at the top of the hierarchy you have the ceo who owns the company and everything the company owns. then his executives serve him out of their own free will for personal benefit. the executives then also have servants who serve out of their own free will for personal benefit. at the very bottom of the command hierarchy you have the ordinary person. these ordinary people empower this hierarchy by allowing themselves to be dependent on it. now, in the past, there was no way you could protest or defy this hierarchy without clearly becoming a criminal. you could either buy a car and empower the hierarchy, or you could steal one. obviously, stealing a car is bad.

now, however, with the rapid acceleration of technology at the end of the third density cycle, we have become so interconnected that we can share pure information around the globe in an instant. this opens up the possibility of distributing and sharing information outside the "old" sts hierarchy. instead of depending on the "old" sts way of thinking where everyone serves the ceo at the top, we can now create a sto society where people share their information directly with other people. the acceleration of technology is dismantling the old world order. before, injustices committed by authority could be covered up with threats and media control. now, however, with the advent of youtube, every person with a camera cellphone is a reporter and part of the "global sto media".

what it comes down to is the monetary system basically collapsing. it has served its purpose in the past, but now as we draw nearer and nearer to full fourth density activation, the old ways will crumble to the ground. power will reside within each person, not in ceos and their mighty corporations. this fall of third density society will manifest the "inconveniences" that ra talked about.

[inilbowly]

hi etguy, you have some good points. i feel the discussion is more related to breaking down a system that is built on "attachments", "ownership" of something and opening a new way of sharing our gifts.

i don't want to stop the flow of ideas, we are ready for a new fair way of distributing our energy freely amoung one another as love builds

"at the top of the hierarchy "
-- this is our system, our game we play, is our growth in technology requiring us to build more "controls" or to let things go. is it requiring the old systems to let go. the old way would be more controls out of fear like when the ranchers of of 1800s would fence in their assets so no one would take them. before, trust and fear were the rule of law. as we build these controls, we loose our trust in one another, thus creating man-made rules/systems that build more structures on top of these just to hold control. can we let go of our attachment ?

"these ordinary people empower this hierarchy by allowing themselves to be dependent on it"
-- i can be counted as one.., but this is in my own control., i can choose to not be dependent. no one has power over another, unless we give them that power or permission by accepting their terms.

"every person with a camera cellphone is a reporter and part of the "global sto media" "power will reside within each person, not in ceos and their mighty corporations"
-- we are becoming more empowered to communicate and decern information by sharing as well as learning to speak our truth. we each have the power to express our truths and not be linked into a hierarchy system. a heart to heart sharing ..... this is already part of our world, but not everyone is there and using this.

"monetary system basically collapsing"
-- by being able to loose our need to control, and see each other as equals and part of one another, we may get there . it will be a different type of pain that we experience as the shift happens.

etguy, i appreciate your thoughtful thoughts in your response, as i said, many old systems are ready for a change and the new flow of ideas is great to get out there and create

[Immusaatmonna]

i've learned a lot from these replies and i see now that musicians were used by a system in which they got paid very little, but i still think they need to be paid for their time and creative energy.