[Sxedlawb]

when i find myself feeling threatened ... as in the case of feeling that some other is trying to manipulate or take advantage ... i make no decision or take any action until i have pondered what 'lesson' may be found within the event or experience. often, i don't notice my dis-trustful feelings until after i 'suffer' some slight. rarely, these days do i get caught in a full-blown drama. the 'trick', i suspect, is to notice the feelings 'early' enough to avoid negative experience and consequence. at times it seems like i 'let' the other 'win' while i ponder on the 'lesson' ... and usually literally walk away, or at the very least, withdraw into silence and contempletion ... but the more i practice this, the more powerful and clear i feel.

[!!Aaroncheg]

it's interesting to read all of the different answers, some say do self defense while others say sacrifice self. this kind of reminds me what i read a while ago, i'm not sure if it was a ra session but i am pretty sure it was, it was said that a wanderer that is a home density of 4th would be more accepting and willing to do the sacrifice than a 5th or 6th density wanderer. when you think about it, the sacrifice of self is the ultimate act of love, love is what 4th density beings know best, whether it be of self or towards others.

i myself look at it like this, 3rd density beings that are not seeking spiritual enlightenment should be interaction should be constant, they should be reasoned with if situations get out of hand, boundaries should be set, and violence is only used in self-defense. of course if a situation gets out of control, some if not most of it is my fault and i have to realize that and admit where i was wrong, they are not stupid just because they don't understand or know of the law of one. never underestimate anyone.

when dealing with a 3rd density seeker of negative spiritual enlightenment interaction should be rare, in fact isolation from these types of people should be used, never let them manipulate you and they wouldn't want you around either. don't piss them off enough to make them want to kill you (they will do it) but if you have little to no interaction with them then most likely it wont happen.

that's all my opinion on the matters of dealing with lower 3rd density understanding beings and negative 3rd density understanding being. hope you guys enjoyed reading that

you all have such great insight and perspective on the subject i'm enjoying reading your comments.

[hereiamguy]

[quote=consciousnessisdivine;38366]

"so now that we have a pretty good discussion about defending yourself from the more, i hate to say it (can't think of a better word right now) but, 'primitive' people, how would you go about defending yourself from a member of the illuminati? they have a higher level of understanding than most, they are on their way to negative 4d. i don't have any fear of the illuminati but they have this little plan for world domination and will not let anything stop them until they achieve it."



i can't fathom how and why the so called "illuminati" are named as such. the vibration of the word "illuminati" appears to be completely at odds with their actions.

are they the true illuminati?

the only plausible explanation of the use of such a title would be their offering of grande scale catalyst which eventually leads to some kind of mass illumination.

love
ds

[freddystone]

reminds me of a quote from acim in my defenselessness, my safety lies. i won't bore you with my interpretation of exactly what that means.... mostly because it (like most cim quotes) has meaning on many levels and i certainly wouldn't want to contaminate your understanding with my imperfect interpretation.

how exactly do you show a violent, physical, and aggressive person that you are not one to be taken advantage of? well, i guess my first answer would be, "you don't!" why do you feel a need to show him anything? what would be the point? and why would you even be thinking about this situation? because thinking is the first step in creation.

now of course if you are being physically attacked, then you're probably not in a place where this would work, because you would very likely need to do some healing first. if you are being physically attacked, then your attacker is simply working as your mirror and reflecting back to you a situation that needs to be healed within yourself.

as you create and nurture peace within yourself, you will eventually come to a place where these situations simply no longer occur in your reality. yes, i know this sounds overly simplistic, but i am speaking from experience. when i was young i was fascinated with the martial arts, and consequently i would often find myself in a situation where my training was very useful. it took me a long time to learn that i was creating these situations, and once i finally healed the cause, i no longer experienced them. ever! i haven't had cause to show off my martial art skills in over 20 years, and i now know that i won't need them in the future, either.

[SnareeWer]

i know this isn't really the same thing, but i have often had issues with other dogs attacking my dog (a beautiful, friendly border collie) unprovoked. it has got so that i usually walk the same route because i know all the dogs on that route and it is also a slightly busy street so i figure that people won't leave their dogs loose in the front yard since it is busy.

it has always been as issue for me.when i lived out west i was more afraid of other dogs than grizzly bears or coyotes which were around a lot.

so today and yesterday i had problems with another dog. it just came charging out of this house and attacked my dog, i yelled and it stopped and then the owner managed to grab it. on the way home this same dog was tied up but was barking and lunging towards us as if it wanted to eat us.

then today this same darn dog was loose in front of the house. there was a lady in her yard in front of a house across the street and i basically said to her "this dog is going to attack my dog" she let me run into her back yard where i closed the fence. the agressive dog looked like it was "hunting" us, it was rather scary.

the owner then came over and got his dog.

but now i am afraid of walking that same way everyday. it is my favorite walk.

so am i supposed to figure out why i need this to happen to me and then forgive the whole situation and it will never happen again? i don't have a clue! am i supposed to let this dog attack my dog again to get over the fear of having my dog attacked. (i really hope that's not what i have to do).

most of the times when she has been attacked yelling at the dog or dogs would get rid of them. she's never needed stitches but has had several "teeth holes" in her and has been bruised and sore. most of the times i don't really blame the dogs themselves. i've known for a fact that a lot of them don't get the exercise and or love they need.

this whole mirroring thing is one thing that completely baffles me.

any ideas anyone?

thanks

megan

[MP+4]

i officiate softball for my local leagues and run up against this all the time. especially with men who are overly competitive. more recently, i had an experience that pretty much sums up how i handle these problems.

after making a call against a team in a hotly contested game, one of the players(someone whose ego seemed to hold prominence within the team)got verbally abusive with me as i was leaving the field. using insults in an effort to provoke me in some way, i just chuckled and shook my head. with this, he raised the ante and screamed at me, "i'll kick your f&%kin ass!" to which i replied with a huge belly laugh and slapped my thigh. needless to say, this created a need on his part to escalate as he was loosing credibility within his little set of alpha males. he stuck out his chest and said, "you don't think i can do it?"
now you have to understand, i'm fifty years old and this is a well built young man in his twenties. i just simply answered him through a chuckle, "no, but young pup, i give you leave to try." at which point i stopped walking as if to say, 'i'll stand my ground, here.' well, as is usually the case with these type of displays, nothing came of it.

after trying to diffuse the situation with indifference and then humor, some people have to push it further. it is at this point that i feel it is important to communicate through body language or vocal inflection that if they choose to continue into violence, then, it must be understood that you will not be completely passive. i was taught that to frustrate an enemy to the point of exhaustion can lead to the opening of their mind. when this is done rooted in a spirit of compassion and understanding, miracles can happen. he needed to know that such behavior may have consequences that he isn't prepared for. i will never allow such a spirit to go unchallenged. i skulked away too often when i was younger and more fearful and explained it away as being more spiritual and enlightened. it has been said, "resist not evil." but it was never said to run away either. by challenging it, you expose it. by exposing it, you shed light on it for all to see. by shedding light upon it, you perhaps transmute it and another can be reached.

[JetePlentuara]

its sounds to me that this person (if singularly) is acting, as ra would say, as a catalyst. i would say that once you sit and think on it objectively, the soultion will become ever clear to you. but, you must remove strong emotional attatchment for the time of consideration so as to chose the actions that feel the most resonant to you. i'm not suggesting removing your polarity or positive lines of thought, but just plainly looking at it as say a referee might look at a sports game. once you see the answer, the forgiveness will follow shortly after and so will the complete release of harbored resentment for this treatment. you will see it as catalyst, and catalyst alone. then? i bet you probably wont be running into those kind of people too much anymore.

i have been a "door mat" to many as most of us here have, due to the fact that we simply cant fathom treating someone in a similar fashion, which is usually negative and controlling. i stepped past these encounters i was having with those who wish to take advantage by self-respect. i stopped letting these people use my light and love to feed their own emptiness while abusing me, simply due to the fact that i started to respect myself more than to be treated in such a way. i am willing to give and not recieve, but not when it becomes abusive.

heres what david wilcock has previously stated that is a good window into this situation:

"if you dont love and respect yourself, you are going to attract people that also dont love and respect you."

...not saying that you have low self-esteem or dont love yourself, but maybe this yht higher you saying, "hey dude, lets work on this a bit so that we are ready for the harvest!"

[JetePlentuara]

i know this isn't really the same thing, but i have often had issues with other dogs attacking my dog (a beautiful, friendly border collie) unprovoked. it has got so that i usually walk the same route because i know all the dogs on that route and it is also a slightly busy street so i figure that people won't leave their dogs loose in the front yard since it is busy.

it has always been as issue for me.when i lived out west i was more afraid of other dogs than grizzly bears or coyotes which were around a lot.

so today and yesterday i had problems with another dog. it just came charging out of this house and attacked my dog, i yelled and it stopped and then the owner managed to grab it. on the way home this same dog was tied up but was barking and lunging towards us as if it wanted to eat us.

then today this same darn dog was loose in front of the house. there was a lady in her yard in front of a house across the street and i basically said to her "this dog is going to attack my dog" she let me run into her back yard where i closed the fence. the agressive dog looked like it was "hunting" us, it was rather scary.

the owner then came over and got his dog.

but now i am afraid of walking that same way everyday. it is my favorite walk.

so am i supposed to figure out why i need this to happen to me and then forgive the whole situation and it will never happen again? i don't have a clue! am i supposed to let this dog attack my dog again to get over the fear of having my dog attacked. (i really hope that's not what i have to do).

most of the times when she has been attacked yelling at the dog or dogs would get rid of them. she's never needed stitches but has had several "teeth holes" in her and has been bruised and sore. most of the times i don't really blame the dogs themselves. i've known for a fact that a lot of them don't get the exercise and or love they need.

this whole mirroring thing is one thing that completely baffles me.

any ideas anyone?

thanks

megan

you cant control the free will of any 2d beings (or 3d beings for that matter.) although it seems its a lesson for you as well, due to the re-occurence of this particular situation, it might not have anything to do with anything 3d whatsoever. im not sure what this issue needs to remedy itself, maybe just the acceptance by you (which is definitley a 3d lesson) that you cannot control the teachings of another, more so if their awareness is slightly different than your own?

i know the law of one applies to everyone, but maybe this is a case of a 2d experience for the animals, and not one of a 3d being such as yourself.?

this one is indeed a toughie. does anyone have any ra quotes that might be able to clear this up a bit more?

[Shemker394]

rainbows and purple unicorns are great when you're with like-minded friends, but sometimes you just have to fight. so try to do it well and with class. couldn't have said it better. :d

i am of the mind that giving too much thought/preparation towards possible violence can attract it. i used to carry a large, heavy breaker bar, pepper spray, and other 'weapons' in my car out of insecurity. i realized that every time i got into the car and looked at them, it made me think of violence. i also realized that i could very easily injure someone severely or kill them in a heated moment.

i took everything out awhile back and have not had any need for them. i am confident that i can take care of myself and my loved ones if need be. that is all the preparation i need.

[freddystone]

i know this isn't really the same thing, but i have often had issues with other dogs attacking my dog...

it has always been as issue for me...

hi megan!
this really does sound like a bad situation. it probably has a lot to do with the training or disciplining of the other dog, which of course, you have no control over.
like kassandra says, "this one is indeed a toughie."

a lot depends on how your dog reacts, and also just how mean the other dog would get, like -- would he bite? etc. so i'm not sure how helpful my advice would be, but i'll try!

maybe you could start by looking at the situation from the dog's viewpoint in order to try and understand it better. so he's probably just standing/lying there bored, and all of a sudden he sees movement. his first instinct is probably excitement. dogs are very pack-oriented, and this guy is probably a big, bad, alpha male, with his pack being that house and yard.

now as he sees you get closer his second instinct is probably guard-dog mode. this is his d*mn place! don't anybody get near it, because he's gonna by god defend it -- even to the death if need be.

ok, so far so good, but the problem is likely that the dog just doesn't know or understand exactly where his boundary-line is. protecting the property is fine, if he only knew exactly where that property line was. at this point it would be a hundred times easier if we could only get the dog's owner to teach him this, but that's probably not an option.

now when he sees you back away, and he senses your fear, instantly his third instinct kicks in; which of course, is attack. whenever dogs are hunting for food, the prey that shows fear triggers the attack instinct, because it is always the easiest one to catch, since their fear blinds them and causes it to act irrationally.

i would say the best thing you could do is to release your fear, because dogs can smell it, and it triggers the attack instinct, quicker than anything. i can't say how the best way would be for you, but i would try visualizing a fearless outcome. just imagine walking past the place without incident, completely unafraid. bring all your senses into it; make it as big and bright and real as you can, and just keep playing it through your mind over and over again.

now when you walk past the place for the first time, carry a can of pepper spray with you. walk slowly and calmly. if the dog starts running toward you; stop. get in front of your dog, so he won't see the other dog and get too excited. have your spray ready and just stand there. don't let him intimidate you. if he gets close enough, spray him right in the eyes. he probably won't, but try to spray him if he gets close enough, because he just needs to know where his property (and his right to defend) ends, and he'll learn a lot faster with his eyes full of pepper spray!

this whole mirroring thing is one thing that completely baffles me.
any ideas anyone?
megan

i don't know if the mirroring concept applies here; if it does, he was probably just showing you the need to face your fears. maybe he's symbolizing some other area of your life where you're being intimidated.
hope this helps!

[SnareeWer]

now when you walk past the place for the first time, carry a can of pepper spray with you. walk slowly and calmly. if the dog starts running toward you; stop. get in front of your dog, so he won't see the other dog and get too excited. have your spray ready and just stand there. don't let him intimidate you. if he gets close enough, spray him right in the eyes. he probably won't, but try to spray him if he gets close enough, because he just needs to know where his property (and his right to defend) ends, and he'll learn a lot faster with his eyes full of pepper spray i still haven't gotten the nerve to walk by again the last two days. i guess i am a chicken and need to face my fears, but the thing is i don't think my poor dog should have to suffer (getting attacked) just so i can face a fear. (at least that's the excuse i'm running with now)

the night after this happened i just "happened" to read this in the book i'm reading:

in order to be a useful co-worker you also have to learn caution,at the same time being able to decide the right time and right place to to use this divine gift. you can save yourself and others from great dangers , harm and useless sacrifices through the proper exercise of caution...........you must possess unflinching courage, and you must not fear any danger. you must stride forth courageously to face any difficulty, valiantly fending off any attack against the divine...... so maybe that's my answer right there. anytime she has been attacked it has always been completely out of the blue and a big surprise and i have surprised myself in how i reacted. it is only now that i see the potential of it happening that i am more fearful.

most of the times my dog has just laid there and been bitten, but then i usually yell really loud and drag her away before it gets out of control. the owner has always been around and by that time they grab the other dog. if they were both loose and there was no owner around and it was allowed to escalate i am pretty sure my dog would fight back and it would get ugly.

just imagine walking past the place without incident, completely unafraid. bring all your senses into it; make it as big and bright and real as you can, and just keep playing it through your mind over and over again. i think i will try this and see if it works. i will let you know.

release the fear, release the fear, release the fear............deep breath

thanks supermanny and kassandraloves

megan

[JetePlentuara]

this is why i am glad i have found this place!

its wonderful to have aplace to go when we all need a little aid in our ventures.

hope it all works out and you can go on being happy with your little buddy.

[!!Aaroncheg]

your all such honest and love seeking souls, this is why i like this message board so much. thank you all for your input, i have used my discernment on every single one of your suggestions and have come up with a pretty good answer for myself. megan, i hope that your dog is doing great. i don't want to sound cold or anything but your dog and the attacking dogs are their own beings as well, which means they have their own lessons to learn, your dog seems to be doing good with the pacifism too. unfortunately we cannot understand any animals outside of mankind, but dogs attacking your dog in an unprovoked way can surely understand what pepper spray in the eyes means .

[actioliGalm]

this topic is fun, and so is life, god wouldn't intend us to go to this drama if it wasn't fun. i agree that they can be teachers and we as appearing "seperate", which of course is not true...

i think the way of detachment and laughing and empathy is key, when there is too much "evil" just bless them and move on... avoidance but not to the point of them invading your energy field, the best key is ignore... to me...

always be love. love is the most powerful tool we are given together with free will.

[Nptxsews]

i grew up in a tough london suburb, muggings and stabbings were daily occurances, i lost friends to violence and drugs, and it wasn't for many years and well in to my adulthood that i looked back and realized that i have never had a fight not in school on the street never as a child, teenager or adult had i struck or received a blow. and it has taken even more years for me to figure out that i did something through instinct that many struggle with to learn and even more have no knowledge of,and that is when you realize that you control emotion it is an inner thing, no one persson or group can make you angry,sad or happy for that matter only you can trigger those emotions, and when you control those emotion these people that would antagonize and become violent no longer can have any effect, my experience in extreme situations is they simply gravitate to a subject where they can have a negative effect.

i am sure a quantum physicist could write you a formula for this! lol
love and light
david

[Salliter]

in dealing with the illuminati: pity them. they are the most pathetic form of parasitic consciousness on the planet, stuck in control and stealing life force from others. their superficial reality of control is crumbling, and their egos will be shattered.

for the rest of the world, expand your heart and mind into love and allowing. learn to love people exactly as they are. learn to see your reality and theirs from a higher perspective. everyone is dealing with 3d pain, and some aren't dealing with it very well.

99.99% of "interpersonal situations" can be resolved without violence. in fact, if you are talking to a person, then it is a social situation that should be handled with social skills. learn to set healthy boundaries, but also be humble enough to just walk away.

if you live in a bad neighborhood, are truly concerned about physical protection and feel the need to learn hand to hand combat that doesn’t require much athletic ability, google “target focused training.” (warning: learning how to easily cause trauma to the human body can be a very disturbing experience for a person who wants to embody love)

walk in love,
cameron

[robinthesearchmasterh]

i have direct experience with another martial art: hapkido.

from wiki:

hapkido is a dynamic and eclectic korean martial art. it is a form of self-defense that employs joint locks, pressure points, throws, kicks, and other strikes. hapkido practitioners train to counter the techniques of other martial arts as well as common unskilled attacks. there are also traditional weapons including short stick, cane, rope, nunchucks, sword and staff which vary in emphasis depending on the particular tradition examined.
hapkido contains both long and close range fighting techniques, utilizing dynamic kicking and percussive hand strikes at longer ranges and pressure point strikes, jointlocks, or throws at closer fighting distances. hapkido emphasizes circular motion, non-resisting movements, and control of the opponent. practitioners seek to gain advantage through footwork and body positioning to employ leverage, avoiding the use of strength against strength.

i can tell you that even the "older" non-athletes have little problem redirecting the opponent's motion to their advantage - with either legs or arms. basic wrist-locks are fairly easy to learn and are quite painful, while remaining easy to moderate (if you wish to prevent serious damage).

[Roxanjbra]

i've never heard of akido before, i like it's qualities though only the most athletic of martial artists can pull it off. that kind of reminds me of the movie fearless, it's based on a true story as well, there might be some dramatizations in it though.

so now that we have a pretty good discussion about defending yourself from the more, i hate to say it (can't think of a better word right now) but, 'primitive' people, how would you go about defending yourself from a member of the illuminati? they have a higher level of understanding than most, they are on their way to negative 4d. i don't have any fear of the illuminati but they have this little plan for world domination and will not let anything stop them until they achieve it.

i hope it doesn't sound like i'm dwelling on the negative aspect of life, i'm just trying to figure out every angle. should we just be martyrs? or should we unite and defend ourselves?

the only reason i'm struggling with this question is because i don't really believe in martyrdom, most of the spiritual leaders throughout history are martyrs though, an organization that is dedicated enough will just get rid of all the martyrs, stay in power, and the masses will just live in fear from there on out, so i believe that in a 3rd density world the sto people should stick up and fight the sts people. we have all read in the ra transcripts that 4th density negative and 4th density positive have wars and they are of a higher understanding of oneness than we are.

i had similar feelings to yours a while back and started a thread about it. if we are supposed to treat others the same way we would treat ourselves, and vice versa, then we would have to treat ourselves with as much dignity and respect as we treat others. which, i thought, would mean not allowing yourself to be crucified. i mean, don't allow others to be crucified or treated with violence and don't allow yourself to either. because my body is just as significant as yours.

but then chris c had this response which made a lot of sense to me:

hey foo!

martyrs, i think is a very misused concept; an extremist is a martyr in the eyes of other extremists when he/she/they commit suicide and therein takes other fellow human beings with them. no, this is not a martyr.

a martyr as i would view it is a person that lives his/hers dharma (a life of rightousness) and never sways from it under any pressure of time or space. that is the ultimate sacrifice to live the will of god, which always is dharma.

so, what i took from that was that jesus lived a life of love no matter what. he never swayed or turned violent even to protect himself. he did not sacrifice himself as much as he never swayed away from being almost %100 polarized positive.

so i think it says more about the culture of the society that lead such a positively, loving individual to be crucified. and likewise for all "martyrs".

the thread i was talking about is here:

http://www.divinecosmos.com/forums/s...hlight=martyrs

[Vokbeelllicky]

here we are, wanderers, practicers of the law of one, seekers of spiritual enlightenment. naturally we are more loving, respectful, tolerant, and understanding of each other and others who are not. those who do not share our more loving qualities can sense that we possess these values. from there they begin to test how far they can go with us, how much they can use us to their advantage because they are lower 3rd density understanding and much more animalistic and attached to the physical.

how exactly do you show a violent, physical, and aggressive person that you are not one to be taken advantage of?

the first thing to recognize is that if these people keep reoccuring in your life, it is happening because you are supposed to learn something from it. i have dealt with this same question in the past and my current philosophy on it is very simplistic.

in my opionon these people are attracted into ones life so that you can learn how to distance yourself from your ego. in other words, find a way of thinking in which the actions of these people is no longer important to you. you will be shocked at how powerless they become when they realize that no matter what they do, you are uneffected.

so how do you get to this point. well it goes back to the three m's. meditation, meditation, meditation. once you get ot he point to where you are truly in the moment which connects you to your devine source, these people will fade away from your life.

[Roxanjbra]

sometimes the only way to get someone to leave you alone is just to give 'em a swift jab to the eye.

but you have to have the understanding that you are likely to bring about the same on to yourself. so if you are afraid to get hit then don't go around punching people.

jesus says to turn the other cheek. but if some guy was trying to kill my family i would not just say, "ok, you killed my son. now here is my daughter that you can kill as well." to me that is what "turn the other cheek" means.