[Vodonaeva]

hi..

just checked henry makow, recommended by "3b". i didn't get if he was serious about the jeans-theory leading into the idea that the feminist movement was started by the rockefellers to destroy the familly and make pple lonely and confused to be more easily controlled...sounds a bit farfetched to me..jeans can be just as feminine and sexy as a dress or skirt....(it's full moon tonight, pardon!)

anyway, further down is stated that both obama and clinton are members of the illuminati, that obama is acommunist and that the communists are members of the illuminati :d

what would david w say about that? he seems to dig obama a lot

i think i'll ask a horary astrologer about this. probably this question has not been asked before, and the univere is always willing to answer an honest question.

yes indeed, whom in the whole world can you trust, everything seems to be the opposite of what it appears to be.

liliane

[viagradiscounttt]

anyway, further down is stated that both obama and clinton are members of the illuminati, that obama is acommunist and that the communists are members of the illuminati

what would david w say about that? he seems to dig obama a lot i would guess that david has only raised the issue of the negative political/illuminati stuff in order to illustrate a larger, spiritual reality. humanity has a shadow side acting as catalyst for it's own becoming, just as an individual is in possession of their own un-resolved issues.

in either case, we, individually and collectively, are well advised to strive to accept, forgive, appreciate and integrate our issues, rather than remain emotionally and subjectively enmeshed with the infinite gradation of them.

just my own personal opinion!

-mark

[Avaboormavoro]

i agree with markm. i spent alot of time looking into ufo, aliens, and then secret scocieties. also started looking at mj12, and the bankers that "control" the money. at one point i was angry. but now, i am not really angry with them anymore. in retrospect, we, as a scociety and a race, allowed this to happen to us. even now. most dont question ... they just are too caught up in their own little "dramas".

i was thinking, earlier, if the monetary system were to fail, it would be great. but then, the problem with that would be, we are so dependent on it. i dont feel many of us would survive. so, i see things are for a reason. i accept, and change my perspective, and send out love to all. = )

[klubneras]

when we look at what someone has to say, especially when it has to do with "conspiracy" theories, it's important to look at everything that person has had to say.

there really are people out there who are thinking that everyone is out to get them. they have equal rights to the internet just like we do.

it's our job as informed, balanced, and enlightened beings to sort through what is obviously conspiratorial slander (that which cannot be proven, or is proven through unbalanced and one-sided means) and what may be a truth from a perspective.

either way, we here are people wanting only what's true - not what one person thinks.

so i think it's important to take what they think into consideration, and not get too involoved with one person's view of "the illuminati" or "the political elite" is.

chances are, they have their own subconcious agenda and view. and while that's fine - it's important that you have balance, and know that their view of reality doesn't have to be your own.

especially when they have their own idosyncacrtic view of things.

[Vodonaeva]

hi

great answers

when you see something you don't like outside yourself it's a perfect occasion to recognise that tendency within yourself, but not in the: "i'm not better than they are, poor sinful human being-traditional christianchurch way", but as an opportunity to become conscious and change.

chinas oldest book,(the only one that was not burnt by the emperor xxx don't remember his name) i ching "the book of changes" f.i. has a hexagram concerning this in a positive way, even if it's also a book with archaic elitist misogynic attidudes also.

liliane

[Efonukmp]

hi..

just checked henry makow, recommended by "bb". i didn't get if he was serious about the jeans-theory leading into the idea that the feminist movement was started by the rockefellers to destroy the familly and make pple lonely and confused to be more easily controlled...sounds a bit farfetched to me..jeans can be just as feminine and sexy as a dress or skirt....(it's full moon tonight, pardon!)

"bb" here. i'm somewhat that this subject landed on site. makow is an interesting intellectual, one of the so-called, self-hating jews that are a special irritation to the zionists. besides being the inventor of the game, scruples, he has spent the majority of his effort in trying to grappel with the mysterious relationship between men and women. i'm not familiar with the "jeans theory" mentioned above, (i wholly agree with liliane's assesment of "gals with "tight fittin' jeans" ) but it is a fairly established self-admitted fact that the feminist movement was engineered and supported by the rockefellers... and to clinch it they bragged about the accomplishment. later, with the same aplomb, david r. infamously remarked that, like it or not, there would be a one-world government coming down the pike.

now i found this revoltin' development difficult to believe simply because i had always been a auto-reflex champion of women's rights and an admirer of "rosie the riveter" ... that able pin-up working girl of ww2. anyway, i've come around to makow's thinking on this and i've come to realize -- like makow -- that we were assuming certain role-playing upon our wives that was essentially against their intelligently designed inner nature, and because these roles were more fitted to men, great damage was done to their feminine spirit -- which of course effected the delicate balance of our man/woman relationships. (please understand that the preceeding is the feeble, ultra-short, bare-bones description/version )

according to makow (expressed brillantly in multi-dozens of essays) many of those adopting the extremes of feminism -- in their most negative aspects -- developed serious psychological hangovers in later years... and many of those living examples have written about this very unexpected fallout that led to morbid depression.

since several of our beloved members write touching accounts of their suffering from depressive episodes i of course thought of a certain guy's writings, etc.

yes indeed, whom in the whole world can you trust, everything seems to be the opposite of what it appears to be.

liliane

nevertheless, you can trust me! said the spider to the fly

billybobtrustworthy ... some of the time, anyway

[Vodonaeva]

hello 3b!

well as for me i "pull my ears back" as we say in sweden as soon as someone starts to talk about a world government, like the indian guru xxxbaba something that had a short video on the 13.th of april, vedic new year.

"small is beautiful" ooops is that going to be deleted? save the saying though, doesn't have to be the title of a book......small is beautiful, concentrating money and power in a few hands is always wrong no matter what -ism is put after the "ideology"

and also i wonder...do you mean there would not have been women reacting against the opression from the patriarchal structures if not rockefeller had been there? i mean, women have been reacting against that long before he was born, right?

liliane

[denwerdinoss]

yes. everything is about trust. who do we trust? i have no idea.

dw seems to think that obama is "in nobody's pocket".

but then again, nobody in america can come to power without the support of the "powers that be".

so what i am trying to say is, if obama is the first "honest" politician we have ever had, then he has to negotiate so much dis-honestey in order to make real changes in the world.

he has his work cut ourt for him.


peace,
foo

[pertikuss]

as a canadian viewing the u.s. election run up and the way previous staged media events run across the screen of human consciousness, i an taken by the way so called american opinion has been cleverly manipulated across decades. like a scripted play the characters have become so identified with their scripts they have forgotten who they are in essence. this is a theme that has a resonance with the roman civilization ,that had a 400 year run before there was a significant shift in consciousness that brought about the decline of the power structures. this is a game that divine consciousness plays with itself using the cast in a play of divine folly.

[Efonukmp]

hello 3b!

snip

and also i wonder...do you mean there would not have been women reacting against the opression from the patriarchal structures if not rockefeller had been there? i mean, women have been reacting against that long before he was born, right?

liliane

good grief! there is no question that women have been horribly abused in virtually every imaginable way. actually, there is evidence that under the dawn-of-history matriarchal-guided religions there was remarkably less bloodshed and warfare. when men couldn't bear not being allowed to screw things up they revolted and assumed the leadership of more brutal religions.

one problem, women held the divine key to reproduction that was marked by the phenomenon of menstration. the brilliant new priesthood did come up with a substitute; they could at least produce bleeding in a man by cutting his throat. for some unknown reason that strange twist caught on and stuck on.

talk about an unholy" abomination!

once the "men" wrested control of the religious aspect they didn't want to let go. as i understand it, at the council of niacea, the bishops did open the gate by voting that women were indeed human beings.(!)..and as the apochryphal story goes, it only squeaked by, via a single extra vote.

the ideal is a balance -- not a subjegation of one gender over the other. and, yeah, the suffragettes did real good. they were heroines of the first order! i salute them!

does that help?

billybob for equal rights ...whatever that really is

[Vodonaeva]

hi 5b

actually there was human sacrifice in some matriarch societies also it seems. a young king was sacrified to please the gods and give a rich harvest or something like that. suppose that was not appreciated among men....

yes, balance is best, but as a matter of fact there would be no babies without men either, even if women have to give birth to them...i don't have any children so i'm kinda´ "in between"

liliane

[lerobudrse]

but it is a fairly established self-admitted fact that the feminist movement was engineered and supported by the rockefellers... and to clinch it they bragged about the accomplishment....

...i've come to realize -- like makow -- that we were assuming certain role-playing upon our wives that was essentially against their intelligently designed inner nature, and because these roles were more fitted to men, great damage was done to their feminine spirit -- which of course effected the delicate balance of our man/woman relationships....

the kicker here is that the best laid plans of the negative elite will catalize positive repercussions. women at that time were second class citizens. any group that is repressed or under-represented in a society needs more equality and has the potential to become explosive if its' needs are not met. in this, the negatives saw a way to divide and conquer by agitating and creating havoc.

yes, they were successful to some degree by driving a wedge of separation between men and women. yes, the negative elite love to boast about their power and influence to effect large numbers of people with their tactics.

however, there were also positive outcomes that resulted that i'm sure they never anticipated. for instance, more women in the workforce resulted in better financial equality between the sexes. this enabled more women to escape abusive relationships with their partners.

also, the feminine perspective took on greater influence in the world. thus, some positive aspects such as nurturing, peace, giving of self, etc. which were frowned upon as a weakness before began to be accepted and even embraced by many men.

you see, negative tactics will only achieve negative success on a negative planet. since this is a mixed (+ and -) planet such tactics will have only mixed results. the negative pressure exerted will also have a positive backlash (equal and opposite reaction) as a balance is struck.

in this case, the negative condition of inequality needed to be balanced. women wanted/needed more equality and the negatives saw in this an opportunity to create separation between the sexes and increase their control. what resulted was not what they had hoped for as many men and women now have bridged the gap and the old, strictly patriarchal order has fallen away.

well, goodness...clinton is a no-brainer. obama may still be up in the air... i gather that he is coming along stronger than expected and thus catching many at the top by surprise. incidentally, communists are not necesarily members of the elite illuminati...communism/fascism are merely expedient tools created and utilized by the illuminati. (one needs a program to tell which is which, and the what is where and the when. something like that.)

i agree with most of this although i prefer the term "negative elite" as it is more descriptive of the other side of the coin than a not-so-secret society (of which there are many) which probably also contains members who are not totally enamered with many of its' negative policies. obama could possibly fall into this caveat of being a member, but not fully in alignment with the negative agenda. perhaps he grew up with this negative conditioning and has come to realize that it's not "all that". maybe this negative catalyst he recieved was intended to push him toward polarizing positive? i don't know, it's just a thought...a possibility.

[Vodonaeva]

hi 5b

what exactly is a "no-brainer", english not being my native language, there are soem expressions i don't understand...sounds like he's not intelligeni??? or what?

liliane

[Efonukmp]

hi 5b

what exactly is a "no-brainer", english not being my native language, there are soem expressions i don't understand...sounds like he's not intelligeni??? or what?

liliane

it generally means that something is so obviously self-evident that one doesn't have to use any brain power whatsoever to comprehend the situation...or how to handle it.

does night follow day? ...on this planet, in this dimension, a no brainer

got it? ok?

love etc, bbb

[pertikuss]

hello lorik. i found that you hit the nail on the head in terms of seeking a balanced perspective on rof internet media communication. the sword seems to cut both ways as the global impact on humanity opens a floodgate for conspiracy culture to take on different forms in an unregulated way.this places the filtering process squarely in the hands the user.this aspect can lead both to greater enlightenment or endarkenment depending on the individuals discernment. freedom of information allows plenty of room for disinformation to taker root. on the other hand there has never been such personal empowerment beyond institutional controls that have restricted peer to peer exchange. unfortunately, the chinese power structure has realized the revolutionary effects of informational freedom on its collective consciousness.

[CitsMoise17]

hi..

anyway, further down is stated that both obama and clinton are members of the illuminati, that obama is acommunist and that the communists are members of the illuminati :d

what would david w say about that? he seems to dig obama a lot

(...)

yes indeed, whom in the whole world can you trust, everything seems to be the opposite of what it appears to be.

liliane

first i would like to state that i do not wish to be someone spreading fear but at the same time, i do not want to close my mind or ignore an idea solely based on the fact that it sounds negative. let me also say that i do believe that david is a man of good faith, that he really believes everything he is saying. i do not believe is trying to deceive anyone.

so here it is.

what if david was misled in some way? what if most of what he was saying is true but he was told a lie and he was not aware of it? how does someone know he is (or is not) being lied to? truth is only what you believe it to be. nothing more, nothing less.

i do not believe that david thinks of himself as someone who could not be misled in any way. i believe he is more intelligent than that.

let me explain myself. i’ve been thinking about this since barack obama’s first press conference. he had visited the white house prior to that. while campaigning, barack displayed a lot of confidence. he was very sure of himself. but at the press conference, he was a different man. he wasn’t so sure of himself anymore. he was hesitating and looking for his words. what happened in between? he met with president bush. that’s what happened.

i am not saying that i know what happened and what was said during that meeting (for some strange reason, i was not invited to that meeting!) but it seems to me that what happened was enough to rob him of his confidence. obama may not be controlled by the people of the new world order but they may have scared him in some way. fear is another way of controlling people.

david claims he will have an important role in obama’s administration. how is the president of the united states of america supposed to explain to the american public that he hired a man who pretends that we (well some of us) will soon turn into beings of the 4th density? how will he explain 4th density? how will he explain that david is the reincarnation of edgar cayce? how will the president keep his credibility after those questions?

here’s what i think in a nutshell. obama is nothing more than the continuity of georges bush’s politics. he does not plan to get out of afganistan or irak anytime soon. the housing crisis is the tip of the iceberg. the derivatives are a far more important a problem than what’s happening right now and almost no one is talking about it. i never heard obama addressed this issue either. i do not believe that barack obama will save anything or anyone. i do not believe that he is the man who will “change” anything.

barack obama also announced that he will retain the services of collin powell, one of the men who lied to the american public about the weapons of mass destruction. the only question that i have is “why?” why hire powell if not to continue the same politics of deception that was going on under the bush administration?

strangely enough, oussama ben laden is back in the news. we haven’t heard from him in a while. the timing is suspiciously good.

if the people of the nwo consider that david and his message are important and influential, do you not believe that they somehow would try to “get him on their side”? flattery would be a way to get to david who wants his message to be spread as wide as possible (and with good reasons). being asked to be an advisor to the president of the united states is flattering, don’t you think? they would also want david to say that obama is a good man.

have you seen those videos on youtube where we can see all those coffins? they are not hidden. there they are for everyone to see, in plain sight. the nwo must be pretty sure of themselves not to hide anymore. they must feel that it’s too late for anyone to react anyway. they do not feel the need to conceal their plan anymore.

call me crazy, call me enlightened, call me “joe the plumber” if you want to. i don’t mind. but react to this post. i hope that i am wrong. i want to be wrong. i do respect david and the work he is doing.

___________________________________
thoughts change reality. think about it.

[JonnLeejsp]

call me crazy, call me enlightened, call me “joe the plumber” if you want to. i don’t mind. but react to this post. i hope that i am wrong. i want to be wrong. i do respect david and the work he is doing.

thank you donald for being so honest. i think most of us here have at one time or another seriously considered what you are saying. if not once, several times and perhaps daily.

i look at david wilcock via divine cosmos mainly as a clearing house. and most importantly, without finding exact quotations, it seems to me that david encourages everyone to think for themselves and not blindly follow what he is saying.

in my opinion, david is a seer who has put a lot of effort into developing his method of seeing beyond what most of us have been brainwashed to think of as "reality". primarily with his dream journals and his many years of working to decipher his dream symbols.

i don't think he would deny that we all have this ability. but its a matter of having the time and the inclination to put it into practice.

i have also extensively researched the nwo and the illuminati reading everything from benjamin fulford to svali and beyond. regarding obama, i have my doubts but i cannot deny the hope that he has created for a better world.

what i don't doubt is that a major shift is coming because the people in this world are too out of balance with the earth and with what i loosely call "natural law". whether the shift happens in 2012 or 2090, there are things that we all can be doing to make this world a better place. which incidentally seems to be the main thrust of the law of one and doing 51% for others. that is what i concentrate on.

so even though fear will play a role in our thoughts (especially if we have children and think of the world they will have to adapt to), i try to relax and allow the changes to take place. and lately, i've been working on lucid dreaming because i believe that is a skill we all need in this time. especially if we believe that life is just a dream...that the one infinite creator is having of herself .

as you say in your own signature, "thoughts change reality. think about it." and i have on my dc page "life is a state of mind". i also strongly believe that life is a state of how we feel too. if only the whole world could all be hopeful at the same time.

[soryalomop]

david claims he will have an important role in obama’s administration i must have missed this? could you please provide a link
to back up that statement?

[Marc Spilkintin]

good grief! there is no question that women have been horribly abused in virtually every imaginable way. actually, there is evidence that under the dawn-of-history matriarchal-guided religions there was remarkably less bloodshed and warfare. when men couldn't bear not being allowed to screw things up they revolted and assumed the leadership of more brutal religions.

let me introduce you to the mythology of venus.

apparently this is common knowledge, but i haven't heard it all that much.

around 4000 b.c. in mediterranean culture. a matriachal society existed. what used to happen was that the queen matriach, would keep a husband for a year, and then they would chop him up and eat him at an end- of- year festival.

this carried on until she wed ulysses who, at the end of the year, had to go -off to war. so of course, she could not get re- married and sent letters to him to return but he refused, not wanting to die. he returned years later and killed them all. the suitors that is.

i assume that's when the patriachy was born in that area.

anyway, part of the reason i mention this because, i think it is synchronistic that it was the (title of ship) ulysses that was the one being used (by the military) to lift all the atlantis stuff out the sunken city off cuba. i do believe some things just happen but that seems to me that somehow synchronistic, the knowledge of our past is somehow related to the tale.

just a theory.

[sesWaipunsaws]

hi donald, i believe obama gives us all something to believe in again. he challenges us all to believe in ourselfs again and in each other.

i do not believe that david thinks of himself as someone who could not be misled in any way. i believe he is more intelligent than that.

i do respect david and the work he is doing.

just as with our own enlightenment, we open yourself to believe that something new is unfolding and we seeked and found dw and this site. please dont' allow yourself to not believe by past history, it only blocks that huge opening that has began to open and is slowly expanding.

lets be careful not to seed "doubt", but continue to have hope in ourselfs and in one another, including obama. something big is happening, i do believe this.