[ENGINESSQ]

maybe this from yogananda "the second coming of christ, vol 2" will help you. i know it did me:
"when a soul contacts the holy vibration (as st.john heard this voice or sound like a trumpet) and feels this ever new joy in it and then deliberately reverts to an inharmonious life, he has to suffer the consequences of his actions in the form of a corroding inner restlessness and state of mental destruction. no one can commit any blasphemy against the holy ghost who does not know it first as the cosmic sound heard in meditation. if after listening to this cosmic sound, one deliberately leads an inharmonious life, he cannot be saved from reaping the result of his bad karma. a person ignoring the intuitional guidance of this cosmic sound in meditation has to work out his own karma of an inharmonious life and distracted mind.
all kinds of physical and mental errors can be dispelled or their fruition modified by the help of great souls but no one can remove the restlessness of a distracted devotee who blasphemes against his perception of cosmic vibration and bliss. by deliberate deeper acts of meditation he must remove his restlessness in order to regain his bliss consciousness and vibratory contact of god or holy ghost. it is clearly evident that all kinds of errors performed by individuals can be more or less destroyed by their own efforts and the blessings of great masters, but no master can give a soul the contact of cosmic vibration and joy of meditation unless he forsakes his restlessness by his own effort of will. that is what is meant by blasphemy against the holy ghost not being forgiven. those that blaspheme against seeking the vibratory contact of god cannot be forgiven by anybody else and must make their own effort to regain the contact of holy spirit by deep meditation." nina

[ENCOSEARRALIA]

[quote=shadow;23364]i come from an orthodox christian belief, which means "the correct dogma"

(ortho- from orthos, which means "correct", -doxy from doxa, which means "opinion")

according to it, jesus was not a mere man who was wise and divine. in a sense he was a wise person, but he was much more than that. in fact, he was all that a human can be: god incarnate, meaning a direct emanation from god and not a god's creation as man is, hence man is made by god, but born by man.

hi, shadow

according to my understanding of the ra material the actual jesus did not fit the orthodox description given above. comparing my former beliefs -- as a once "true believer" -- i now find it impossible to accomodate the idea of a special divine incarnation of jesus -- as contrasted to an ordinary regular miracle of natural conception/birth.

if one does a search concerning the subjects of jesus/christ on llresearch.org they will most likely find some surprises.

jesus, as an entity, was a reincarnation out of a group soul located near the top of fourth density. (it is my understanding that particular group is now in early fifth density.) also i understand that this same group manifested in ways that generated many of the other great religions of the past.

jesus came to earth as a fourth having great love and compassion -- but he came without the moderating wisdom of the fifth. this imbalance led to his martyrdom. however it can be argued that the story of his sacrifice created a much more compelling reaction in the hearts of future generations than that resulting from an extended life of teaching.

now i may have this all wrong, but the the infusion of the "holy spirit" was something really special in that the creator was in a certain way able to directly experience 3rd density. however this "christing" is not limited to just one super special third hypercomposite person of the trinity -- or a human who was the directly created son of god, etc.

one who comes to the law of one still infused with the mindset of past christian teachings will have a hard time separating the wheat from the chaff.

the bible has many truths -- but at the same time is loaded with negativity. an interesting look at the origin of the torah/jehova can be found at www.scottmendelker.com via scott's application of the ra material.

i should mention that the "ra material" channeler, carla rueckert, is an active anglican. on the other hand the ra stated that concerning edgar cayce his traditional belief system was an obstacle to their more radical teachings -- such as reincarnation... they were concerned that edgar would simply shut down his trance work out of alarm. to circumvent this difficulty the ra decided to use health readings as an opening gambit. this offered quite a challenge to the ra since they didn't know zilch about the peculiarities of human physiology -- so they had to undergo a crash study self-education program.

it seems that being of help from any dimension can be a real challenge and involves a lot of hard work!

about the "unforgivable sin". it ain't for reals. according to the ra all is eventually reconcilled. of course some of life's adventures are more gracefully pursued on one path than another. but even the most "evil" of negatives serves a vital function and should be eventually thanked for a heroic task well accomplished.

i hope some of this is helpful...if not, just regurge.

my love to all. billybobtheologicus

[Pdarasenko]

that pastor noir seems off and gives me bad vibes. there is only 1 path toward complete and true liberation and its the razors edge, the straight and narrow. traveled by many but completed by very few. the way of love and compassion was not created by jesus they are intrinsically present in laws of the universe. you can not obtain true enlightenment or liberation through understanding anything but oneself. this only becomes obvious to one who is no longer bottled up in ideas and forms.

[PNCarl]

hi, shadow

according to my understanding of the ra material the actual jesus did not fit the orthodox description given above. comparing my former beliefs -- as a once "true believer" -- i now find it impossible to accomodate the idea of a special divine incarnation of jesus -- as contrasted to an ordinary regular miracle of natural conception/birth.

if one does a search concerning the subjects of jesus/christ on llresearch.org they will most likely find some surprises.
[...]

my friend,

in my above post, i just gave a description of the common belief in the orthodox community as well as the message contained in jesus' teaching.

i am well aware of all the theories concerning him. they are all beliefs, which means opinions nevertheless. if you ask me which one i choose to believe, i would reply "none". believing is not the way, i am the way.

not me of course, i am as insignificant and illusory as all personalities ever existed, including jesus. i am, with capitals, is the way and the love, the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. the inner self that is common to all that is.

no need to rely on the bible and on the religions that derived and all the sects they were divided in. they are hundreds if not thousands and they are nothing but politics. i mean, you will never find the truth in any of those beliefs. it doesn't matter if jesus was incarnated before as others, it doesn't matter at all.

the christian religion and the establishing of the church was paul's work, who despised and hated him so much, that his emotions made him manifest before him as a miracle. no book, holy or not can be a handbook for life, for love needs no handbook, it is our essence and all knowledge about anything is illusion.

therefore all positivity or negativity is nothing but inner. i used to see a lot of negativity until i realized that it was my negativity i would perceive. now, i am not suggesting that everything is as it was supposed to be, but i wouldn't know more to be a judge of that and even if i thought i did, that would be a false assumption of mine to begin with. in the end, it doesn't matter.

go tell a christian that jesus was teaching basic buddha and hindu principles and he will be outraged. he actually did but, see, beliefs are clouds so thick that get to reduce our vision and insight, i tend to drop them. however i understand how these people think and it is ok, still love them.

everyone chooses a path to follow. i was them, in a way.. a "true believer" and a "doubter" and a "researcher" and... it was me many years ago. everything i can say to anyone, i say it to my former self. what my former self would want in order to be helped, is understanding, love and compassion. that's all.

i wish you well

[Unamannuato]

quite eloquently said. i consider 95%+ of this debate to be on the positive side of things. it is only when we become so wrapped up in believing that we're right that we choose to ignore the "right" from other viewpoints. it is so hard a discussion, as we have had 2000 years of telephone to decipher. the most likely text to examine for validity is the oldest, which is the polaral opposite of todays christianity. so much hatred from a religion of love... quite the puzzle...

[Drysnyaty]

quite eloquently said. i consider 95%+ of this debate to be on the positive side of things. it is only when we become so wrapped up in believing that we're right that we choose to ignore the "right" from other viewpoints. it is so hard a discussion, as we have had 2000 years of telephone to decipher. the most likely text to examine for validity is the oldest, which is the polaral opposite of todays christianity. so much hatred from a religion of love... quite the puzzle...

it seems a truism that anything in the world has equal and opposite potential for positive/negative application. look at nuclear energy, as a case in point. i also consider the reverse-engineered technology gained from et sources. such great potential for benefit to mankind is used by our 'government' for weapons of war. it is mentioned by ra that this same misuse of technology led to the downfall of the planets mars and maldek, and of the atlantean civilization.

this same truism follows when looking at an enlightened body of teachings of the higher concepts of love such as that espoused by jesus. 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you' has been interpreted by some as 'do it to others before they do it to you'.

as noted recently in another thread, at times in humanity's past the law of one has been usurped and 'inverted', as it were, into a control mechanism used by the world powers of the time to repress and control the masses. so for me this truism of polarity of positive/negative potential of application helps explain a lot of mystery.

jesus, who was apparently a 4d wanderer in the earth plane, could conceivably have been a channel for higher density entities or social memory complexes, such as or similar to ra. with channelers such as edgar cayce, carla rueckert and david wilcock, we are able to draw a clear distinction between when they are channeling and when they are speaking from their 'normal', 3d waking consciousness.

with jesus, we don't have that luxury; to borrow from biblical terminology, he may have been channelling something akin to the great, universal 'i am' which is the essense of all of us. thus when we hear 'i am the way, the truth and the light, and no man comes to the father but by me', we don't know whether this was channelled material or otherwise. it would make sense to me that it was, as i don't believe jesus would have held himself up to be the only human-dwelling entity capable of serving as a conduit to 'salvation'.

given the fragmentary and context-poor condition of the extant biblical gospels, it's not hard to see from the above made point how one may come to believe that their only hope for continued existence is by accepting jesus as their personal 'saviour'.

it's been two thousand years, now, since jesus walked the earth, and in that time, much has been lost, muddled, and fragmented, as well as being heavily edited and altered at the roman 'council of nicaea' in 325 a.d., under the auspices of emperor constantine. before this, the gospels contained in the bible were copied and translated from other copies of copies of written material and verbal tradition, and filtered through the minds of the transcribers with their own personal biases of who and/or what jesus was.

but i don't believe we have been left alone all this time without being offered 'updates'. if you can get past the old roman fear based lie that the bible contains the only true 'word of god', you may find that more modern, less distorted and intact offerings from the higher realms are available today.

if one looks at the five books of the law of one teachings for example, one can see that it teaches that all humans, indeed all lifeforms, are inherently 'divine' by birthright, and are one with the creator, with no need of fear of mortality, that there is only one consciousness, and indeed each of us is the creator in a temporary amnesiatic state. all we need do is learn to turn within ourselves and remember, as all will find their 'way unto the father' through themselves, and not through any outer agency.

it is this singular, revolutionary, empowering and provocative truth which has been hurriedly covered up, inverted and obfuscated by the 'powers that be' in any age.

but, truth be known, baby, you can't keep a good message down!

-mark

[Unamannuato]

someone asked in a previous thread about committing blasphemy of the holy spirit. here is my take, and a round of further conjecture: i was worried about this quite a bit, and a few years ago when i bought into the whole roman spin on the message of jesus, i asked my wifes pastor about this very subject. their church is fundamentalist pentecostal, if wondering. from what i can tell, even christians don't really understand how this sin is committed. it's all a matter of varying opinion, but what i decided on after much research is "once you have the holy spirit, and know the "truth" of the message, blasphemy of the holy spirit would be preaching against gods message, when you know you're misleading someone." similar to if i knew my name was frank, going around convincing people it was joseph. the important point here is that if i didn't know my name was frank, i wouldn't be in trouble for spreading my joseph opinion. it only counts when you know. which i find to be a bit of an oxymoron, as if you know something, there is no need in faith. blasphemy of the holy spirit would be a sin only available to the most devout christians well along their path. today, i find the whole subject a bit hard to discuss, as we only know what the romans wanted us to. from what i can tell, the original message of jesus was probably much closer to gnosticism and buddhism. i feel that perhaps the message was very relevant, maybe even divine. i also believe it included reincarnation. i think maybe jesus was the first person to make it "out of the loop", hence the only way to heaven is through him, following in his footsteps of love and compassion, and a lack of interest in earthly matter in favor of the invisible world. the romans then dissected the religion, taking out anything that gave too much power to one person, and emphasizing (maybe even adding) eternal punishment in flames for something you really can't even control. we can really only see the tip of the iceberg of what they distorted. in a more recent example, the japanese did it to buddhism with shintoism leading up to wwii. imagine... buddhists killing people. buddhists believing everyone other than themselves were infidels. they did it though. we see the same thing today through fundamentalist muslims committing mass murder, christians killing people (abortion doctors) to get across the message that we shouldn't kill people (babies), etc. religion, from what i can tell, is always manipulated by the establishment to further their goals. you just have to get the core of the message. this is why i find the ideas put forth on shows like coast to coast am, and metaphysical propositions tested scientifically (see [specific book], or books on scientific evaluation of psychics and the afterlife) so intriguing and genuine. it's first hand information without 2000 years of political influence and catering to the lack of knowledge then available. going along these lines, i'll finish my opinion with someone else's: "there was only one true christian, and they crucified him." -nietzsche

and before it comes up, i meant in no way to offend anyone. this is simply my input on a rational discussion between minds willing to think outside the box. none of us know, and i'll be the first to admit it. if i offended, i sincerely apologize. please understand; i believe you misunderstood me.

[PNCarl]

i come from an orthodox christian belief, which means "the correct dogma"

(ortho- from orthos, which means "correct", -doxy from doxa, which means "opinion")

according to it, jesus was not a mere man who was wise and divine. in a sense he was a wise person, but he was much more than that. in fact, he was all that a human can be: god incarnate, meaning a direct emanation from god and not a god's creation as man is, hence man is made by god, but born by man.

jesus was obviously the most non religious man ever existed on earth and appeared to be not fond of religions, which he knew they were nothing but belief systems. beliefs are one thing, belief "systems" is another, a political manifestation, made by man to establish order.

and this is true and agrees with what you wrote... because think this: can you imagine god being religious? would god ever need to be religious? who would god need to believe in and worship? jesus never told people to worship him and pray in his name, never asked anyone to bow to him and bring him gifts. on the contrary, he became a servant to everyone who loved him and in that sense he still is (i know because he is my friend )

when his disciples asked him "master, tell us, how should we pray? what prayer would be appropriate?", he answered:

"here is what you can say in your prayer and believe with your hearts:

our father,
the one in the heavens,
blessed be thy name,
your kingdom is yet to arrive,
your will is yet to be born,
as in the heavens, so be it on earth,
the food that we will need tomorrow,
provide us with it today,
and let us be free (forgiven) of our debts (-> karma),
as we let others (forgive) from their debts
etc."