[tpJKhY8Z]

You guys are really interesting people!

Even if I visit a science fiction board, I doubt I would find any crazy discussions like that yet you all believe your experiences are real etc.
I do have OBE too so I am not criticizing you, don't get me wrong...

I am curious, however, how do you see yourselves? Do you guys have a normal life? Do you talk these things with your friends/colleagues/family? are you guys all deeply involved in metaphysics/paranormal stuff?
Do you consider yourselves blessed, or cursed, or just ordinary people.

But regardless you have to admit AP can be considered supernatural. Even buddhism considers this supernatural

"One of the Buddha’s great disciples, Moggallana is recorded to have six types of supernormal powers. Through developing his mind over an infinite period of time, Moggallana was capable of a much wider experience in space and time. His knowledge transcended the limitations and boundaries of the normal mind. Some of his powers and feats have been carefully documented and preserved to help future generations understand the full potential of the mind. One of the power is astral travel"

PS: Somehow my nickname is deleted (klabs1976)... CFTraveler did you delete my nickname?
Anyhow, I decided not to do OBE/AP anymore but somehow they happen involuntarily so I just welcome the experience...

[flienianO]

... crazy discussions like that yet you all believe your experiences are real etc....

they are real

Do you consider yourselves blessed, or cursed, or just ordinary people.

I am absolutely normal. The rest of the world is f*****g crazy.

[traiffhetl]

normal is relative to what you are used to

[diseeKeythilt]

Hey, klabs1976.

I guess for most people I pass as very normal. And for a long time that was also my goal - be normal and be considered normal for the sake of acceptance.

Nowadays I have however come to the point where none of the religions I know nor society itself provide me with something I would consider a model for my life. It is at times disorienting as a mode of living, and the more I commit myself to that, the more abnormal ("different from the norm") I would consider myself, even though it doesn't show for the most part and it doesn't bother me.

In hindsight it is strange to see how often I wanted to be something for the sake of the acceptance by others. Nowadays I aspire to be myself, which holds its own surprises.

Cheers,
Oliver

[Serereids]

I am absolutely normal. The rest of the world is f*****g crazy.

good luck

love all

[Hetgvwic]

Normal is overrated.

Besides, I tend to think there's no such thing as normal in this fluid and f'ed up reality of ours.

[patuvammnogoo]

You guys are really interesting people!

First of all, I didn't delete your account, if I had all your posts would disappear (did they?) and I think we may have a hacker. I'll have to look into this.
Secondly, posting a thread on an AP forum basically telling people that they are "interesting"? And using phrases like "you believe your experiences are real"? Is it really you, or did you forget the 'respect' rule?

I do have OBE too so I am not criticizing you, don't get me wrong... Not overtly, no.

I am curious, however, how do you see yourselves? How do you see others? How do you see yourself? Consider this- I have always been me, so how else could I see myself?
Do you guys have a normal life? What's a normal life? I am married, with children, and work. And do this on my spare time. Have other hobbies too, but not to this extent. What do you consider normal? Having shallow conversations about clothes and boys (or girls?) We talk about 'being', 'consciousness' and 'the big picture'. Is this too deep for you?

Do you talk these things with your friends/colleagues/family? are you guys all deeply involved in metaphysics/paranormal stuff? It's a metaphysics board. I don't know about paranormal, although we do have a section about what is consider paranormal, I personally don't believe in paranormal stuff.

Do you consider yourselves blessed, or cursed, or just ordinary people. An ordinary person, just a little more introspective than most, but you'd be surprised at the level of self-awareness some people have.

But regardless you have to admit AP can be considered supernatural. Even buddhism considers this supernatural I don't believe in the supernatural. So, it's not for me to say what buddhism sees AP.


Anyhow, I decided not to do OBE/AP anymore but somehow they happen involuntarily so I just welcome the experience... Well, good for you. But you can stop them if you want to. Just go to sleep fast.

[patuvammnogoo]

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=33670

Klabs is still here. So, are you really klabs? Because klabs is polite and respectful, and you don't seem to be the same person. Are you a hacker?

[tpJKhY8Z]

First of all, I didn't delete your account, if I had all your posts would disappear (did they?) and I think we may have a hacker. I'll have to look into this.
Secondly, posting a thread on an AP forum basically telling people that they are "interesting"? And using phrases like "you believe your experiences are real"? Is it really you, or did you forget the 'respect' rule? Hey CFTraveller, its really me...I tried to log-in many times thru my old account but I couldn't. I also tried to retrieve my password but somehow the system didn't recognize my email address so I had to get another account.

Lol...I was only joking...I called you guys "interesting" but I didn't mean anything bad and neither I thought anyone would get it the wrong way. I can OBE/AP and 100% believe the authenticity of it so please no hard feelings. I truly believe you guys are interesting. I wish I had more people like you around me but I can only share my experiences thru this forum because no one would understand. I think a lot of people here are very special (again, in a good way)...
God (whoever your God is) bless you all ...

PS: I also have great respect for your efforts in this forum. You help a lot of people like me here so thank you for that...

[patuvammnogoo]

The multiple log-in problems has been happening for days to various posters, so we do think someone is trying to hack into accounts to get into the forums. If this happens again, even with the new accounts, just give it a few minutes and try again.
Robert says this should be resolved when we update the site but I'm not sure when this is going to be.

[Npbfamgt]

Hallo astral 1976
I totally agree that OBEs and the people who experience them are interesting. I would even go so far as to call them fascinating.
Regarding being a normal person - here I can only speak for myself. I regard myself outside of the cultural normal because
1) only about 10% of the population experience OBEs. And of that 10% probably fewer than 1/2 deliberately try to induce OBEs. So as far as that goes that puts me in a minority of about 3% to 5%.
2) Fewer people still keep detailed records of their OBEs and regularly discuss them via the internet. Think about it, if 10% of all American have OBEs that puts the total number at about 30,000,000 (That's Right 30 MILLION ! ). If only 10% of those 3 million are members of a website about OBEs then that number is 3,000,000 !) Yet the member list here is about 6,000 (or so??) Maybe the total members for All OBE websites is about 40,000 to 50,000 (most probably a LOT less). That's makes me and you a minority within a minority.
3) My views (theories, concepts, experiences, etc) about OBEs are much more esoteric than most people's. (I won't go into details.)
So add it all up and it is easy to come to the conclusion that I am NOT normal. The fact that the vast majority of scientists and medical professionals will not publicly acknowledge the reality of OBE shows how radically different my worldview is from the current mainstream. Yet IMO that is Okay.

Regards
Grey

[patuvammnogoo]

ps. Hi Grey.
I disagree with the statement that only 10% of the population has OBEs. According to my own estimation (from talking to church groups and other groups that are open to this in a conversation) it's more like 20% having spontaneous experiences, and a bit more that have them but consider them dreams.
I do agree with the other statistics, they agree with my own observations.

[diseeKeythilt]

Hey, Grey.

Aptly put.

Cheers,
Oliver

[tpJKhY8Z]

Hey Grey,

I really really find it hard to believe 10% have OBEs...Actually I remember reading he same statistics somewhere but I can't find it now.
In my opnion this is way too inflated. 10% means 100s of millions of people in EU/North America/Asia etc. When I visit social media and forums like this , I see very very low participation (couple thousand hits even on youtube videos). If millions of ppl having OBEs then the participation should be much much higher - especially a topic like this should take some serious attention...And 10% is significant enough to draw attention of the scientific community. So far they are silent about this for the most part.In my opinion, the rate is 1% at best....not even that...

CFTraveller, your observations based on church groups...these are spiritiual communities so I guess it makes sense that they have much higher participation rate.

[Npbfamgt]

Greeting All

CFTraveler
Am surprised to find that many people in your church group are open to discussing the subject of OBEs. I am Not disputing your 20 % estimate yet perhaps astral 1976 is correct in that your church groups do consist of a representative sample of the overall population. I based my estimates on the (relatively small) number of people who are members of an OBE website like AD. Whether 10% or 20% of the population have OBEs (and various surveys conducted over the years have revealed various figures (9%, 17%, etc))that still means that most people do Not have OBEs and the vast majority of people that do have OBEs either do not realize what is happening or they do Not wish to discuss it with others outside of their immediate family. And that's really too bad because the potential for learning and growth is just about unlimited.

Regards
Grey

[patuvammnogoo]

Greeting All

CFTraveler
Am surprised to find that many people in your church group are open to discussing the subject of OBEs.

Regards
Grey

It came about in a weird way, and it surprised me greatly when they came out of the "projector's closet". I can tell about it if you want to hear it.

[BoattyGonm]

Do I consider myself normal? What is normal?
I love how you replied to this CFT and I would like to also add that in our society talking about shallow things is probably considered normal. And talking about physics and "mystical" experiences are considered abnormal. I rarely talk about my experiences with anyone. I guess I am afraid I would seem crazy and get put away, or have my children taken away from me.

From the outside I seem normal, I am a single mom of 2 just trying to make it. But once you get to know me I am pretty deep and have many layers (of craziness )

What do I think of my experiences? I think anyone can do them. I just hit the right spot of being awake and alseep at the same time, and it just happens. I no longer get vibrations or hear the loud noise, I just feel "seperaty" and slip out like a glove! But maybe I have a bit of an advantage since I have always had lucid dreams and been a little psychic. But honostly - yah anyone can do it!

Also, most of the time my OOBEs feel more real than reality, more LUCID. In reality my vision is faulty and a bit blurry, but when I am out it is usually crystal clear. That is one of the major reasons I think this is real! How else could I explain that? If this was all fake or just a dream I would be open to that possibility as well.

I appreciate your post, I didn't think you were being rude at all. But I could see how it could be read that way. I like the bluntness of your post, it gives me a chance to learn about other people's point of view. I would love to talk to someone who DID think we were all crazy! That would be neat!

[Npbfamgt]

CFT
Very funny, "projector's closet" and lol. That's a clever term I've never heard before. My "projector's closet" doesn't have any skeletons (an elemental or two but No skeletons ).
I am quite intrigued about what brought about an open discussion of OBEs in your church group so please, by all means, tell me what happened. (Either here in this forum if you feel it is not off topic or by pm or email.)

Warm regards
Grey

[patuvammnogoo]

Here is fine. I've told it before so I thought it might be boring.
At the time I was in the Board of Directors of my church, and also doing some platform work, and I was due to take the Workshop at the TMI Robert gave a few years ago (three or four?) on the weekend. So I told the minister I would be away for the weekend for a workshop, and didn't give any details.
I was back the next weekend when someone asked me where I was, and I said 'at a workshop at the Monroe Institute'. Someone else asked what it was about, and I (truthfully) answered that it was a weekend course to practice energy work, and one of the ladies perked up and said "The Monroe Institute? The one that teaches OBE and stuff like that?" So now I had to answer, so I confessed that yes, that one, and she got all excited, since she knew what it was about. So of course, many of the ladies in the church started asking questions, and then after the service, (we have a 'social communion' after the service, with pot lucks and such) so after, a group congregated around me and started asking me assorted questions about OBEs and what Robert teaches, etc, and from that a lot of the people there (a lot of senior citizens in this particular church, for whatever reason) started reporting having had spontaneous projections or waking up with vibrations. (That's where I got my percentages, lol) and even the minister admitted that she got vibrations and the ocassional spontaneous projection, but had never had the opportunity to talk about that.
So from that (the minister) and I got together for lunch, she drilled me about what I believed about them and after a while of questions (like about the planes, etc- obviously she had done some research about it and wanted to know what I thought about the belief systems associated with it.) She also asked me to give her pointers about how to consciously induce them. So after a while she got together with the board and they agreed they would like for me to teach a mini-workshop about OBE to see how many people were interested.
So I taught the course (it was the first time) and it was incredibly successful. I had people from other churches attending, and it was nice, got my feet wet teaching this.

Then a year later I went back to my old church (a long story and for another time) and one of the teachers there had attended my class in the other church and liked it, and arranged for me to teach the class there. This one was not as well attended, and I think that it's because the group was very eclectic- and this church offered so many different courses about so many things that people just weren't that interested. But the ones that attended came back, so that's good.

[tpJKhY8Z]

I like the bluntness of your post, it gives me a chance to learn about other people's point of view. I would love to talk to someone who DID think we were all crazy! That would be neat! Thank you. Unfortunately, people think we are crazy
I finally get it out from my system and told this to one of my close friend and since that day he is trying to find out if I use any drugs lol...Of course I don't.
I somehow feel like it is my obligation to share this experience with atheists. I prefer not to talk with religious people as they already have faith and it is a good thing, I don't want to confuse them. But I believe our experiences can help atheist people. I was an atheist and I know how much of a relief I got after my frist OBE. Because it is really terrible to think that your life will be over forever after death, its almost deppresive feeling...