[enactolaelant]

Umm, Tim? a simple thanks somewhere in the mix might have been nice. I have talents I have yet to understand and were it not for your pile of verbiage I might be able, innocently, to help.

And so I say, with a spit in the dirt, I'm on your side and that might not be so little bit of muscle. I only wish you could accept my compassion with an open mind - I do truly care.

Richard

Excuse me, Tim. I'm must have lost my marbles - no thanks required. What a silly idea. I just wish you the best and would have deleted this arrogance but don't seem to have option

See ya' later, and really hope the best for you and Sherry.

Thanks Richard for your best hoped.

Nah, it was too much. I tend to heap it on just like you said, an arrogant know-it-all, forgetting the personal notes. I see that as arrogance too, on my part. You rightfully reciprocated the same so I could see myself. Thanks for the lesson/help there teach.

nuthin silly about it really, it's ok to be human i reckon.

possums huh? sounds like the makins for a good hillbilly stew...maybe.

peace to us in our future exchanges, and much respect,

tim

In addition, few people can bring it when it is brought to them. Truthfully Richard, I value your honest responsive trustworthy reflection. It is humbling, and I thank you for It.

http://spiritlodge.yuku.com/topic/939

http://drnikki.com/Modalities/Totem/Nik ... ossum.html

possums are cool, just like you.

[PRengine]

I've been thinking about putting signs up around the house and training myself to know that if I see the sign - I'm dreaming. Not sure how that'd work, though.

Back on topic.

The questions remain: a) might a person be OB in RTZ, i.e. wander their house, as a nightly habit? and b) might I be able to make a signal around the house that would tip me off that I was (a) wandering the house OB?

Any thoughts anyone?

Richard

[VemyhemiHef]

Originally Posted by E1B I've been thinking about putting signs up around the house and training myself to know that if I see the sign - I'm dreaming. Not sure how that'd work, though.

Back on topic.

The questions remain: a) might a person be OB in RTZ, i.e. wander their house, as a nightly habit? and b) might I be able to make a signal around the house that would tip me off that I was (a) wandering the house OB?

Any thoughts anyone?

Richard Yes, you might. In fact, if it's a habit you more than likely do it as a matter or course.
As to the signal, depends on the level of lucidity. A pink elephant in the middle of the room may take you on a completely different thought process if not lucid, or if lucidity is different.
In fact, at another time I'll post something that has been happening to me quite often (no time now, it's going to be a long day) for y'all to interpret/figure out).

[PRengine]

Just making a short note - not OBE stuff but I don't have a dream journal yet and just for the record.

Had a long and great flying dream last night. As so often happens the flying occurred in a large stadium like building - not outside. The one thing different than similar dreams is I never lost the ability to fly. I mean, generally along toward the end of such dreams flying becomes more of an effort and I lose the abililty to get much altitude. Not this time.

What a treat!

[PRengine]

copied fr mreee's ....Got Tricked

Just some thoughts...



This business of accepting the 'other' reality as just an-other reality rather than challenging that 'other' reality as an explorer in a strange land hadn’t really come into focus until recently - not until I had the experience of a ‘mini OBE’ did I really get it. At that point I basically caught myself in the act - red-handed - if you will. Naturally I wondered if there might be a way to signal myself out of the presumption that being OB in my house was not out of the ordinary.

I think this is basically the conundrum CF is pointing to - whatever devise we might adopt to determine our status - awake real world vs asleep ‘other’ world - will ultimately if not immediately become natural and ordinary to the other world experience. Recently I enjoyed an extended dream of ‘flying’ which should be signal enough that I was dreaming but I was enjoying it too much to challenge the ‘reality’. Suppose you’re in the theater watching a movie and just as the action comes to its climax someone taps you on the shoulder and says, “You’re watching a movie. Come, I’ll show you the projector.” what’s going to be your reaction? Probably something like, “I KNOW I’m watching a movie and please don’t bother me right now.”

This is the line of logic that the vast majority of us the majority of the time are witness to. Wake anybody up during REM sleep and they’ll tell you they were dreaming. If it were possible to ask them if they’re dreaming without waking them up they might become lucid, answer with a distracted “yes”, and just keep on dreaming in a please-don’t-bother-me sort of way.

Some time ago I became lucid to the extent that I asked myself the question. Standing on a high ledge I wondered if I could jump; ‘yes’ dreaming, ‘no’ not dreaming. I thought about it for some time and unable to satisfy myself one way or the other I turned and continued walking down the road. Later I stole a sailboat from a restaurant and sailed it across the desert. I did quite a few things that can only be done in dreamland but for the duration of this remarkable dream the question remained irrelevant.

This, IMO, is lucid dreaming and is such a fantastic campus for personal growth that if one’s spiritual path had taken him that far, it is warranty enough against any fears of death and so much more.

And then I had my mini OBE and everything changed. For a moment I caught myself simply ‘being’ without the movie. I’ve astrally projected to scenes where I knew I was a mere observer, a visitor before, but even that was dreamland. For the most part (aside from flying occasionally) I accepted the usual laws of gravity, solidity, distance, time etc., but that moment when I caught myself (naughty boy) sitting on the couch, on or in my own sleeping torso, smoking my pipe, I understood with certain clarity what the near-earth OBE was about and what a different world it is from anything I had previously experienced.

Now, back to the real question, the one mree and CF were considering; how can we signal ourselves into the recognition that this is ‘not awake’ and ‘not a dream’ but a totally different situation. For me, it was the display of the fire in my pipe reflecting on the glass panes of the french doors - it was just too fantastic to be real world which triggered my consciousness to think about what was going on.

I’ve been thinking in my imagination of making a blinking neon sign that says “Otherworld”, and placing it over the doors of my bedroom and study - that it would have an astral/etheric reality and I would see it during my exits during the night.

Pretty silly, huh. But then again, would I simply accept it as normal - what could be the equivalent of a dancing pipe-coal in the glass?

[diseeKeythilt]

Hey, Ritch.

Have you ever considered going the other way?

There are several assumptions underlying your reasoning here which should be considered.

For example you automatically assume you need lucidity cues when you are in the RTZ. But that won't help you if you're having an experience on the astral plane or higher - your entirely elsewhere. Here is where the basic assumption of seeing anything that happens to you as symbolic comes in handy. If you do that in waking life it transfers over and might be helpful, and when switching to such a mode of analysis it might become easier to become lucid, as in my opinion it's a mode of higher functioning.

Then the next thing - lucidity is something you do alone. Really? Most of my significant dreams I wasn't alone, but in the company of a familiar presence, someone like a close family member or spiritual friend, often the identity only assumed. I've also seen a fair deal of dreams here on the site where another person seems to come along and maybe even sustains the experience.

I'll attach an example of one of those dreams below.

So, it might be a good experiment to just ask something like this: "Benevolent guiding presence, please aid me in getting lucid and discovering whatever purpose the experience I am going to have has." There's several ideas interwoven in that statement that might be helpful "provisionary beliefs." That's what Kurt calls any belief you try on for size to see if you want to keep it. See what changes in your experience while operating under such a belief. If you like the outcome, maybe you want to run with that belief.

Cheers,
Oliver

PS - the dream (from several months ago):

The morning before last I fell asleep again to find myself somewhere with my mother with me. I'm starting to suspect it's really a guide. It's a female presence.

My uncle arrived in his car (he loved his Audi cars) with his family - I guess wife and kids - even though the "kids" are now near-40 or over it. They looked like kids, but also like shady reflections, maybe for his comfort. I got only his attention.

He got out and was glad to see me. I couldn't remember he was dead, only recovering from something. Given his age I thought heart attack. I kind of suspect knowing he was dead was suppressed so I'd play my role better. He looked old, grey and smaller, and his voice was different, almost a whisper, but it was him and he was glad to see me.

When I asked him about his recovery he said "The first weeks are the hardest." He's been dead for about two months now. I gave him half a hug not to hurt him while he's in recovery.

My "mother" said something to him, and I thought it somehow tactless, or she asked if what she just said was tactless. We turned to the right and there was a vast green expanse full of sunlight, maybe with trees around. It had a well-cared look, I think of it as a park when trying to describe it. BTW, it was a really sunny day, like vacation season, when he arrived. It was even brighter than on a sunny day but not uncomfortable at all.

I think the "motherly presence" helped sustain my state of consciousness the whole dream. Just the right amount of presence for this little welcome/farewell.

[PRengine]

Another RTZ false memory.

I check the mail box for an expected delivery of supplies and find a package. I open the package but the contents are not what I ordered. Bummer.

In the morning I 'remember' and look around for the erroneous shipment. I check the mailbox. Nothing.

Are this and others like it false awakenings? Where do they fall in terms of dream or OBE? Would seem to me that if I could have 'known' as I was falsely checking the mail I could have taken it from there to a full blown OBE.

I can imagine this sort of thing becoming a real problem when I enter the geriatric phase of my life. I'll tell my daughter to find something I never received but I'm quite certain I did, sort of thing.

Ewww.

[VemyhemiHef]

Could have been precognitive, as in 'hasn't happened yet', could have been 'alternate present', which could mean that it happened in another timeline, not this one, or it could mean that you want something and your subconscious is creating it for you.
Or it could just have been a dream.

[PRengine]

sometimes I get a duplicate posting and sometimes I don't have a 'delete' option which is what I wanted to do. Ce la vie.

[PRengine]

Thanks for that CF.

But let see if I can explain my line of thinking on this. I believe it is generally accepted that everybody goes out of body every night - that dreaming is a priori an OB experience. Some few of us are lucky enough to be aware of our dreaming and we seek to improve the experience by improving our awareness or lucidity.

What I am imagining is the same is true of the RTZ OBE. It may not be so unusual for a person to exit their body in their etheric body and for some it could be a regular habit. There are sleepwalkers who get up in their physical body and unaware, raid the refrigerator. This is not unusual. So it wouldn't stretch the imagination to think a person may 'sleepwalk' in their etheric body, which is to say, get up, wander the house and see and do things.

I think this is what’s going on with me, but I have of modicum of awareness when I do and therefore bring back memories of these little exits. This is a backdoor approach to the OBE; rather than trying to INDUCE it, simply try to catch it when it’s naturally happening.

What say ye?

Any input from anybody will be appreciated.

[VemyhemiHef]

sometimes I get a duplicate posting and sometimes I don't have a 'delete' option which is what I wanted to do. Ce la vie.

Except for the Ask RB forum, you should have a delete button for all your posts, unless I've locked them, and I haven't.
Does anyone else have this problem? Hmm.

[VemyhemiHef]

Thanks for that CF.

But let see if I can explain my line of thinking on this. I believe it is generally accepted that everybody goes out of body every night - that dreaming is a priori an OB experience. Some few of us are lucky enough to be aware of our dreaming and we seek to improve the experience by improving our awareness or lucidity.

What I am imagining is the same is true of the RTZ OBE. It may not be so unusual for a person to exit their body in their etheric body and for some it could be a regular habit. There are sleepwalkers who get up in their physical body and unaware, raid the refrigerator. This is not unusual. So it wouldn't stretch the imagination to think a person may 'sleepwalk' in their etheric body, which is to say, get up, wander the house and see and do things.

This is perfectly reasonable.

I think this is what’s going on with me, but I have of modicum of awareness when I do and therefore bring back memories of these little exits. This is a backdoor approach to the OBE; rather than trying to INDUCE it, simply try to catch it when it’s naturally happening.

What say ye?

Any input from anybody will be appreciated. How about this- make a sign that says "You are OBE" and put it somewhere that is not visible when you are up and walking around- say, the top of the fridge, for example.
If you're doing a nightly float-around you will see it and become aware, and if you're dreaming you may see something different, and if you're sleepwalking you will not see it at all.
One thing about the subconscious, is that it tends to fill out details when we are getting partial input- so if your possum is running around, your subconscious may interpret it as more than one, and give you that image, instead of the actual one, for example.

[PRengine]

How about this- make a sign that says "You are OBE" and put it somewhere that is not visible when you are up and walking around- say, the top of the fridge, for example. How do you KNOW I can't see on top of the fridge? Tutor thinks I write like a girl and you are of mind (correctly) that I'm less than 6 feet tall!

Hmmm. So I've managed, by written words alone, to present an image of a little sissy. Well, that's cyberspace for ya'.

Anyway, your plan is worth a try. But I have another idea; I'll simply ask my 'teacher' to help. 'Rein' will do it if he thinks it's a good idea.

[PRengine]

Just recording an odd experience.

I was just falling asleep when I saw myself in profile like in the mirror at the far wall of my study. I wasn't looking at myself looking at myself, the image was as if I saw myself typing at my laptop.

It was just a glance, as in a hypnogogic picture.

I tried to exit from that point but with no luck. I think I'm getting closer though.

[VemyhemiHef]

Did you see yourself as you were, or was it a 'trip backwards or forward'?

[PRengine]

Did you see yourself as you were, or was it a 'trip backwards or forward'?

Just as I am now, real time.

It was exactly what a person would see in the mirror if I was sitting on the couch typing something to bore you guys with .

[VemyhemiHef]

Ok. FWIW, this happened to me one time (and so far, one time only). Also, it happened long before I learned to induce OBE.

[PRengine]

Yeah, it didn't 'feel' like anything unusual either - simple hypnogogia. But my 'mini OBE' did feel quite different and I think of that feeling whenever I think about giving the exit yet another try. Generally speaking, when I'm determined to do something I succeed (golf being a glaring exception ) and I have of reason to believe I'm somewhat psychically talented but I'm starting to wonder if that makes any difference at all. :cry:

[jessyhalm]

Forcing it never works with OBE/lucid dreaming (the latter being my preference, especially over RTZ experiences). I don't know if this has been suggested, why not consider going with the lucid dream instead of attempting an OBE (which might be the same thing anyway)?

[PRengine]

Thanks for your input BeeK, CFT .

The LD comes along now and then. I posted fairly recently a case where realized I was in a dream, stood on the edge of a tall building and fell forward knowing that I would not hit the ground. I had a nice flight before I settled on the beach. But then I encountered some sort of limitation - I wasn't able to fly against the wind to rejoin my friends. I tried but it was just too much effort.

Some time ago, posted somewhere here, I practiced the run and jump technique and doing a flip in order to gain altitude. Over the years I've experienced many lucid dreams triggered usually by something bizarre occurring that causes me to question Reality - a morphing cat, sailing a sail boat on dry land, the time I refused to jump from a ledge because I couldn't convince myself for sure that I was dreaming.

Lucidity is a hard thing to pin down. My most recent post to my dream journal related a dream in which I had detailed recall (walking across campus in my underwear) but it wasn't lucid. There's a difference between being aware you're dreaming and just dreaming. One thing that bothers me is I have never passed through a wall, that possibility has never occurred to me. Is that to say I've never been lucid? I think this is why the RTZ exit appeals to me.

For a brief moment I experienced both the presence of my sleeping body and sitting on the couch smoking my pipe in another body. Also, I experience false awakenings fairly regularly and I can't help but wonder if it would be possible to translate one of those into a RTZ exit.