[JulietOreira]

hello everyone. just like my numerology reading describes me as "more curious than the perverbial cat" i have been known to do random things just out of pure curiosity. i will try to sum up my latest adventure in as little words as possible.

my latest foray has been to explore the rooms of alcoholics anonymous. and it had an effect on me that i had not at all anticipated. i feel like bill wilson, who is the main founding father, was not just a drunk but more like an enlightened prophet who arrived at not only a solution for alcoholism but also addressed the heart of the dilemma facing the entire human race, a dilemma otherwise known as the "human condition". alcohol was only the catalyst to begin his soul searching. and he arrived at a 12 step treatment plan that is intended to bring about a "spiritual awakening". a spiritual awakening then provides fertile grounds to eliminate all fear from life and live the life of your dreams.

in essence, aa is one of the largest spiritual institutions in the world. and it is the only spiritual institution that has remained impervious to exploitation. it also impressed me very much that carl jung had a hand in guiding the spiritual nature of the program.

so i found a very interesting sponsor which is full of the kind of common sense and wisdom you find only in people that have learned universal truths through a baptism by fire. he appears to me sort of like hellboy or an impure angel otherwise known as an archangel.

my sponsor had me read the basic aa text known as the "big book". these lines absolutely jumped off the page at me:

"i was soon to be catapulted into what i liked to call the fourth dimension of existence"

"we have found much of heaven and we have been rocketed into a fourth dimension of existence of which we had not even dreamed" i could list dozens of quotes in which, if i didn't know better, i would think it was coming from ghandi, buddha or david wilcock and the big book seems to correspond directly with the loo.

just like buddhism, a considerable portion of the big book is dedicated to egocentrism and the deflation of the ego. here is a quote from the book:

our actor is self centered egocentric, as people like to call it nowadays. he is like the retired business man who lolls in the florida sunshine in the winter complaining of the sad state of the nation; the minister who sighs over the sins of the twentieth century; politicians and reformers who are sure all would be utopia if the rest of the world would only behave; the outlaw safe cracker who thinks society has wronged him; and the alcoholic who has lost all and is locked up. whatever our protestations, are not most of us concerned with ourselves, our resentments, or our self pity? selfishness, self centeredness! that, we think, is the root of our troubles. here are the 12 steps:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/twelve-step_program#twelve_steps]the twelve steps

it is also interesting that the 12 steps are now used in virutaly every recovery based program. about twenty percent of twelve-step programs are for addiction recovery, the other eighty percent address a variety of problems from debt to depression. seeing as the format for this mayan "13th baktun" is that we are in a trial by fire, and also dw showed in the symbolism of the pyramid that the straight shot to enlightenment is blocked and we must go down toward hell in order to bust up through and become awakened, we all could use the 12 steps at some point in our lives.

as for my personal experience with working the 12 steps... i have always been a bit of a theologist. i have studied all major spiritual institutions as well as new age philosophies such as the loo. and the 12 steps did something for me that all of the studying i did couldn't do for me. it is dificult to articulate so i will let bill w speak for me:

i was catapulted into a spiritual experience, which gave me the capability of feeling the presence of god, his love, and his omnipotence. and most of all, his personal availability to me. it was masterful the way he worked to awaken his brothers and sisters without running the risk of being worshipped like some deity. because as he says himself: "i am just a drunk". and one of my favorite sayings of their's is: "we are just a bunch of sober horse theives and rogues". this shows the constant state of humility they work to keep.

i would like to open this up to discussion. does anyone else have any experiences with this 12 step program? i also just wanted to share this experience that i had with it because we are all having a hardships now. the darkest and coldest part of the night is right before the dawn.

i have so much more i could say but i am limited to the amount of words i can use. love!

[STYWOMBORGOSY]

i wanted to say that i too have had amazing spiritual experiences, and insight by implementing the 12 steps into my life.i was guided to go to meetings by a loud booming voice which said...you will die if you keep doing what you are doing to yourself...i was at once woken from a deep sleep of which i was never the same....since i first went to a meeting when i was 16..i have to say that i owe my life and my spiritual foundation to these amazing steps. most people don't want to do the hard work looking at yourself...correcting wrongs...i thank the creative force everyday that these steps came into my life. i too believe that these special men who came together to save their butts from drinking themselves to death were given something so powerful and they had knowledge of the other dimensions and that there were ways to be able to live in them on this 3d earth. i always felt like an alien and have always had a hard time understanding how people could be so mean to one another.i know that because of the steps it is my job to look deeply into my life,action,intentions,and not my business to look at others side of things...i live with ingrity today and have self esteem and self love...i have a peace inside that nothing on this earth could possible give me....through prayer and meditation i have been able to break through so many emotional issues and i am able to present in my life...i seek truth and am a truth teller...i have been able to embrace the things i was most scared of and let them go...i can raise my head high and look people deep in their souls... 23 years ago my spiritual journey began...and everyday it just gets better and better...i recieve many messages from my higher self and my guides and since i was a child tapped into another place that leads me to discovering who i am....
i can never be more grateful for the 12 steps coming into my life. i feel really lucky to be given such an incredible gift... i really believe that anyone can benefit from the 12 steps...surely the world would be a more paeceful place...
in light and love,saturn

[Petwrenny]

i wanted to say that i too have had amazing spiritual experiences, and insight by implementing the 12 steps into my life.i was guided to go to meetings by a loud booming voice which said...you will die if you keep doing what you are doing to yourself...i was at once woken from a deep sleep of which i was never the same....since i first went to a meeting when i was 16..i have to say that i owe my life and my spiritual foundation to these amazing steps.

wow

most people don't want to do the hard work looking at yourself...correcting wrongs...i thank the creative force everyday that these steps came into my life. i too believe that these special men who came together to save their butts from drinking themselves to death were given something so powerful and they had knowledge of the other dimensions and that there were ways to be able to live in them on this 3d earth. yeah i feel the same way. and i think the most beautiful thing about the steps is that it presents their knowledge of a higher dimension in plain, basic, humble english language. i feel like the book mirrors the loo but in layman's terms.

i always felt like an alien and have always had a hard time understanding how people could be so mean to one another.i know that because of the steps it is my job to look deeply into my life,action,intentions,and not my business to look at others side of things...i live with ingrity today and have self esteem and self love...i have a peace inside that nothing on this earth could possible give me....through prayer and meditation i have been able to break through so many emotional issues and i am able to present in my life...i seek truth and am a truth teller...i have been able to embrace the things i was most scared of and let them go...i can raise my head high and look people deep in their souls... 23 years ago my spiritual journey began...and everyday it just gets better and better...i recieve many messages from my higher self and my guides and since i was a child tapped into another place that leads me to discovering who i am....
i can never be more grateful for the 12 steps coming into my life. i feel really lucky to be given such an incredible gift... i really believe that anyone can benefit from the 12 steps...surely the world would be a more paeceful place...
in light and love,saturn awesome man! thanks for sharing, saturn! :d and do you think all of this is a direct result of the 12 steps? because, for me, the steps had a dramatic effect, in a practical way, on my life that reading the somewhat abstract concepts in the loo didn't do for me.

i found that another way the big book mirrors the loo is that it talks alot about sto! and it explains the value of it in a clear way. the big book describes the value of selfless service to others is a remedy for the egocentrism that we are afflicted with when we are born into this 3d world. when you selflessly provide service to other human beings then it keeps you out of your mind. it provides the same relief that people look for in other things such as the bottom of a liquor bottle. people fill that spiritual hole with all kinds of things. money, ambition, sex, food, ect...

and that there are differnt forms of egocentrics. many people think egocentric people are the ones who are "full of themselves" or think they are royalty and everyone should kiss their toes. but there are also those egocentric people with low self esteem who obsess over their perceived short comings and inferiority complexes. this latter group needs to "get over themselves" in the same way that the first group does.

here is another quote from the big book:

and acceptance is the answer to all my problems today. when i am disturbed, it is because i find some person, place, thing or situation -- some fact of my life -- unacceptable to me, and i can find no serenity until i accept that person, place, thing or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment.
nothing, absolutely nothing happens in god's world by mistake. until i could accept my alcoholism, i could not stay sober; unless i accept life completely on life's terms, i cannot be happy. i need to concentrate not so much on what needs to be changed in the world as on what needs to be changed in me and in my attitudes. this is powerful right here and it takes an inordinate amount of faith to be able to live this way. but if you can truly see life in this way then life will be so much smoother.

it is also interesting that the 12 steps has become like a "cure all" for this 13th baktun that we are all in. we are born into a state of spiritual amnesia which causes all kinds of problems. and to climb the 12 steps restores us to a state of spiritual union with the universe.

like saturn said, that is truly the greatest of blessings.

love...

[PIORARMADDERI]

your thread reminded me of a post by david in jan. '08 about a possible connection between cayce and the 12 steps!

... and bill wilson, founder of alcoholics anonymous, got the entire "12 steps" downloaded to him in a single reading... with no edits or alterations necessary. untold millions have used these steps to heal their lives. i am also an example of a living miracle from humbly learning to apply these steps to my life...
with gratitude, mark


link:
http://divinecosmos.com/index.php/vi...uary-new-video

[mXr8icOB]

your thread reminded me of a post by david in jan. '08 about a possible connection between cayce and the 12 steps!

...

i am also an example of a living miracle from humbly learning to apply these steps to my life...
with gratitude, mark


link:
http://divinecosmos.com/index.php/vi...uary-new-video

"big book" is the handbook to a succesful harvest?

did he really get it downloaded in one session? i mean, i know some of the history of the process of creating the steps. i know they had 6 steps at first and continued to build on it. i was absolutely not aware of a connection between cayce and bill. that is fascinating and would explain a lot. thanks mark.

that "big book" is, in my opinion, one of the most important spiritual scriptures of all time. because it is not coming from some exalted guru that nobody can live up to. it is just coming from a drunk. and the fact that he was so succesful in wall street adds the fact that anyone on this planet can become humbled.

if you climb the 12 steps you will have no problem making harvest. in fact, if you believe bill w, you will have already made harvest!

that book made me think a lot about humility. as men we are taught to conquer. and we try to conquer everything. we would rather fight to the death to retain our honor rather than surrender. but we can't conquer anything in the universe. that is like trying to conquer the ocean. the ocean is going to win every time.

i truly feel like the ones who become broken are the lucky ones. the ones who finally kneel and say, "i am defeated, god, and i need help." these are the truly lucky ones that walk the earth because now they have god working inside of them and they can be open to experience 4th dimensional life right here, right now.

adds a whole new meaning to the prase "the meek shall inherit the earth".

[kranfid]

the original article i remembered from david was feb '07.
i was 2 years into my new life without a parachute (alcohol/drugs) at the time and wasn't sure this connection between cayce and bill was true, but it sure sounded interesting!

link:
http://http://divinecosmos.com/index.php/start-here/davids-blog/293-have-you-been-skipping-class-spiritually


[html]most people don’t realize that they have edgar cayce to thank for the 12-step program. according to several different sources that have popped up over the years – people in a position to know – the man who calls himself “bill w”, (i’ve heard the last name is wilson) was actually a client for a psychic reading from cayce. like other secrets, this was locked away in the archives of cayce's organization, the a.r.e.,.../html]

david goes on to describe how universal these 12 steps are and can benefit everyone in their spiritual progression/process

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12-step programs are all about breaking down this conditioning that there is no higher power, that the only god you really have is the drug itself – otherwise you can’t feel safety, comfort, warmth and love. if you want to break down this illusion, triggered by the animal-level god reflex from the body, you have to engage the intellect and have a more evolved god-concept to replace it.

i find that the loo and steps both ring true for me.

foosnik, thanks for your truth telling!

i am/was broken, but am eternally grateful for the opportunity to have gone thru it.
mark

[welihiedginly]

i am/was broken, but am eternally grateful for the opportunity to have gone thru it.
mark

thank you mark! so this quote came out of david's mouth? this one:

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12-step programs are all about breaking down this conditioning that there is no higher power, that the only god you really have is the drug itself – otherwise you can’t feel safety, comfort, warmth and love. if you want to break down this illusion, triggered by the animal-level god reflex from the body, you have to engage the intellect and have a more evolved god-concept to replace it.

this is exactly right on the money.

my favorite chapter of the book is "we agnostics" because it makes the most down to earth... not sure of the right word... it just says, basically, in a very down to earth way, to give spirituality a chance.

because i would say more than half of the people that walk into recovery centers are either angry with god or completly godless. and seeing as the 12 steps hinge on a spiritual awakening, bill and the others must try to find a way to get through to even the most stubborn souls.

we needed to ask ourselves but one short question.
"do i now believe, or am i even willing to believe, that
there is a power greater than myself?" as soon as a man
can say that he does believe, or is willing to believe, we
emphatically assure him that he is on his way. it has been
repeatedly proven among us that upon this simple cornerstone
a wonderfully effective spiritual structure can
be built.* when we are born into this world we become scared. because we see all the crime on the news, hatred, holy wars, anything that can be exploited is exploited and so on... it just seems like a cold, hard, scary, cut throat world. but then, once we have god in our lives, it is like the sun comes back out. and the world becomes a loving place again. it is just a loving place that is full of lost souls.

i say that the loo is for wanderers but the "big book" is for earthlings. i don't think i would be nearly as impressed if i didn't already have some deep spiritual knowledge. it is just the way they delivered the message that is so brilliant. it is like the loo with blood, guts, action, and sex appeal. it is deep spiritual knowledge coming from a hard nosed wall street earthling.

thanks again, mark, so much. it was because we became broken that god was allowed into the cracks. i feel bad for the men that are succesful with trying to conquer the world. because they never "earn" cracks to let god shine in.

when we have a spiritual awakening we begin to work with the universe, and the universe has our back. instead of trying to bend the universe to our will. simple as that.

:d

[GennadiyRom]

i am trying to write back but i been told that it is too short...maybe it will work now...?

wow

thank you for sharing too...awesome!!!!

yeah i feel the same way. and i think the most beautiful thing about the steps is that it presents their knowledge of a higher dimension in plain, basic, humble english language. i feel like the book mirrors the loo but in layman's terms.



awesome man! thanks for sharing, saturn! :d and do you think all of this is a direct result of the 12 steps? because, for me, the steps had a dramatic effect, in a practical way, on my life that reading the somewhat abstract concepts in the loo didn't do for me.

i know that everything that has been about my personal and spiritual growth on this planet is all to do with the 12 steps for sure....what has an even greater effect is reaching out to others and being there for them....it has taught me not to take myself to seriously and that my own drama is really soooooo not important...helping others brings me into more of a space to be free of me!!!! thank god!!!!! my head used to do the miles....what if....fears....blah blah...boring!!! since the steps and helping others...doing what i can to give to my community when i get the opportunity ....lifts me to a different place than i could have ever imagine exsisted...there is so much we don't know...but one person reaching out to another is how i found my feet and so i must continue this so others can be touched the way i was.... i found that another way the big book mirrors the loo is that it talks alot about sto! and it explains the value of it in a clear way. the big book describes the value of selfless service to others is a remedy for the egocentrism that we are afflicted with when we are born into this 3d world. when you selflessly provide service to other human beings then it keeps you out of your mind. it provides the same relief that people look for in other things such as the bottom of a liquor bottle. people fill that spiritual hole with all kinds of things. money, ambition, sex, food, ect...
yeah i agree....it took me awhile to admit i did things to benefit myself...now i keep in check my expectations and intentions....only giving when i can expect nothing back in return....the hole i have found is only filled with one thing....a connection to a higher power or whatever you want to call it...i call it the energy that is all around and inside and apart of everything thing else....source ...the energy that connects and holds the whole of the universe together.... and that there are differnt forms of egocentrics. many people think egocentric people are the ones who are "full of themselves" or think they are royalty and everyone should kiss their toes. but there are also those egocentric people with low self esteem who obsess over their perceived short comings and inferiority complexes. this latter group needs to "get over themselves" in the same way that the first group does.
well i guess the subpersonalities of all of vary....and can be expressed in as many ways as love can be expressed...with one thing in common....it always seperates us from others and the universal energy.... here is another quote from the big book:



this is powerful right here and it takes an inordinate amount of faith to be able to live this way. but if you can truly see life in this way then life will be so much smoother.

it is also interesting that the 12 steps has become like a "cure all" for this 13th baktun that we are all in. we are born into a state of spiritual amnesia which causes all kinds of problems. and to climb the 12 steps restores us to a state of spiritual union with the universe.
yes indeed we are all one!!!!!!let it be known!!!lol like saturn said, that is truly the greatest of blessings.
hey have a wonderful day and enjoy every moment.....in light and love,saturn love...