[jhfkgkfdvjk]

A few nights ago I had a vivid dream where I was being pulled backwards at great speed on a wire/pulley contraption; I managed to realize that I was either dreaming or in the astral, & looked at my hands (which had long red fingernails!) & tugged at one of the fingers to see whether it would stretch out - but nothing happened & I woke up. What am I doing wrong, or was it simply a dream? Would appreciate any advice!

[SweetCaroline]

Firstly. Dreaming occures in the Astral dimension. So anytime you dream you are having a sort of OBE. If you notice it or not is something else entirly. A dream in which you are aware you are dreaming is a Lucid Dream. I belive that is what you had last night. Do you practice AP, Meditation, and Energy work? Or do you just find yourself having spontanious OBEs?

As for becoming aware and taking full control over your energy body, I found that, for myself, this came naturally after I started developing my energy body.

As for your fingernails, that was just a reality fluctuation caused by your subconcious. You could think of a dream as an Projection into the astral that you are unaware of and with many, many reality fluctuations caused by your subconcious thoughtforms. When you have complete control over your projections you still have these but not as many as you would in normal dream you find you have more control over it.

I have also had many lucid dreams and found I could control them and have fun with them, OR just push them out of my head completely and find myself already in a really deep state of trance..... The beginnings of what could turn into a much better projection.

Good Luck!

[jhfkgkfdvjk]

Thanks, Three Nails! I have been told before that dreaming occurs in the Astral, but sometimes I wonder about that, as there is such a distinct flavour to any of my astral -experience-dreams, as opposed to general run-of-the-mill dreams; even in the latter I sort of realize I am in bed & just "dreaming" them. I do know about lucid dreaming, & have had many such dreams, but only to the extent of realizing that they are dreams. I've been doing energy work for nearly 2 years now, & have meditated for about 25 years (Vispassana in the past, now a silent "void" sitting) I'm doing everything I should (as far as I know) but still have so little astral control/awareness, it is very frustrating. Sometimes I wonder whether is is the stress & long hours of work - I am usually exhausted when I get to bed. The conscious AP exits I have had are very few, & lasted for a very short (but exhilarating time). I seem to just rise up, out of my left upper back area. I do the techniques prescribed, then seem to fall unconscious for a moment before lifting out. On one occasion I was told by an unseen being that I just needed to persevere. When I was a teenager I got "out & about" more regularly, & had some amazing travels & experiences, which I recognised as astral events, not dreams, but only after waking up. My energy body is very easily activated with RB's New system, I have only to think of raising energy & it starts tingling. But the "rope" doesn't work at all for me. I never have any exit sensations, although sometimes at inopportune moments (like sitting at the computer at work!) & feel the astral body shifting as if I could lift out very easily; also during meditation.

All the best!

[SweetCaroline]

What you are describing to me sounds like an underdeveloped energy body. I'm not so sure, because I too am sort of a novice in the astral plane, but I do a lot of reading and have had great sucess with the few astral jaunts I have done.

Work on your MOBILE BODY AWARENESS. Find some routine to work on as you are meditating instead of focusing on the void for a bit. Do energy work and focus on making your energy body stronger. This way you will have stronger, clearer projections in which you can control yourself well... It will also help the duration of your projections. This is based on personal experience as well. I find that my projections now (Spontianious or otherwise) are far more enjoyable, easier to control and last longer than the ones I had before I started my energy work.

I'd focus on and add the full body circut and make sure you are doing it correctly... Store as much as you can in the subnavel area. Maybe try to activate a few minor chakras?

[jhfkgkfdvjk]

Thanks very much, I'll take your advice, Three_Nails! BTW, I'm intrigued as to what the energy body actually IS - is it part of the astral/etheric? What happens to it after death? Does it fuse with the Higher Self/Soul aspect? Or become a shell like the astral? Probably silly considerations but I'd still like to know if anyone has any ideas/facts? There is no energy body work in any of the Indian traditions, & I wonder why. . . . .?

[CtEkM8Vq]

At death it will fuse back to your higher self because we are our higher selves one way or another, more or less.We are like puppets on a string.We have choices but we can't run away from what we chose to do before we were born into this life.If we do not do what we came here to do it will present it to us over and over again and your higher self can take control of you if she chooses if there is something important you have to do.My life as I knew it before is no more.My life know is very,very strange!

[jhfkgkfdvjk]

Thanks, Niki123! That's so interesting -do you feel that your HS has taken over your life at this point? Would you mind sharing the how/what/when/where/why of it?

Namaste

[Smittoh]

Thanks very much, I'll take your advice, Three_Nails! BTW, I'm intrigued as to what the energy body actually IS - is it part of the astral/etheric? What happens to it after death? Does it fuse with the Higher Self/Soul aspect? Or become a shell like the astral? Probably silly considerations but I'd still like to know if anyone has any ideas/facts? There is no energy body work in any of the Indian traditions, & I wonder why. . . . .?

Do you really think so? I don't think so.

I think the idea of an energy body is a simplification. As we shift our consciousness from physical to etheric to emotional/astral to mental etc. we just switch our point of view. Our consciousness at any level can be in many places and always is. Robert's concepts of the energy body IMO explain how all of this gets reintegrated in our wake, physical, conscious mind and gets stored back into our brain.

We exist at all levels of consciousness all the time, but reattaining our capabilities is part of why we're here, plus for learning the lessons that can be had here. The same restrictions we experience now are here so that we do actually learn something instead of opting out in the face of problems.

It seems at first glance that the Indian traditions have no energy body concepts, or the Chinese ones ignore projection and so on. In the end it seems to me all talk about the same and order their steps differently in which seekers undertake their spiritual journey.

In the end the Taoists believe is that you can transcend the human condition by removing the ego limitations, cleaning up the first six energy bodies (physical, emotional, mental, psychic, karmic/causal) and then merge back into your Higher Self, unifying your human aspects with your Higher Self aspects, so that you permanently attain the 7th energy body, called the "spirit body" or "body of individuality". This is identical to breaking the cycle of reincarnation and becoming a permanent, fully integrated spirit entity.

Oliver

[Uplillacype]

There is no energy body work in any of the Indian traditions, & I wonder why. . . . .? I have to speak to this.
I have been working with my minister (of a christian church) helping her go through the MAP program. Yesterday we were doing some primary center work, and when we were done she said: "You know what, I do something similar to this when I do Kundalini Yoga." It turns out that she is a Kundalini Yoga instructor (you could have knocked me over with a feather, lol) and she told me that Kundalini Yoga deals with trying to develop and expand the energy body. Now I don't know if what is known as Kundalini Yoga now could be considered part of Indian tradition, but at least modern K.Y. is energy body work.
Now I'm trying to get her to teach me some, or having a class.

[jhfkgkfdvjk]

That's very intriguing! I think that Kundalini is energy, not of a personal kind, but rather a universal or cosmic latency - it's apparently not "one's" kundalini, just "kundalini". I am still puzzled though as to what happens (after death) to those who don't develop their energy bodies - I find myself thinking there should be some sort of fail-safe mechanism in place in the afterworld, to prevent beings from getting "lost" on the other side (there isn't here, so why should there be "there", I know) And if one attains this permanent energy body/diamond body/body of light or whatever one calls it, how would that "individualised" energy body retain an awareness of itself once it merges into the Great Source? I am still a bit confused, too, about a Guru I used to follow who told me that chanting japa for 2 hours a day (which I used to do) would "burn off" the astral body & one would no longer be troubled (!) by o-o-body experiences. Is that a physical possibility, or a metaphorical use of "astral"? Is it actually possible that some people who have done this sort of japa would be left with no astral but only mental (or whatever) subtle vehicles? Has any adept actually seen anything of this nature, or is this Guru just propounding a theory/dogma? (Sorry for all the questions! I seldom actually offer an answer to anyone on anything because I don't believe I know the final answer to anything, so I just get here & ask!)

[Smittoh]

Merging with the Source and attaining the spirit body are two things for the Daoists. Merging is the ultimate goal, a quest within and beyond the body. What the Immortals did and came back from (coming back is a choice according to the Taoists).

Everything is failsafe. If you don't attain the spirit body, you will reincarnate, your awareness manifesting into a new life with different aspects. The Taoists aren't too specific on that. Energy and consciousness don't get lost.

I don't know about that guru, but he should know what he meant. IMO, the astral is something like a frequency of your mind. How can you burn that off? Maybe he just meant something different, like cleansing all blockages from the emotional body to attain emotional detachment, which is indeed part of getting free of pain - the hurt of negative emotions.

Oliver

[jhfkgkfdvjk]

Hi Oliver, thanks! I understand that merging with the Source is something beyond the (or any) body - so you believe that once one attains the "spirit body" ( BTW how can a spirit be a body & have form?) then reincarnation is over. Would it be necessary, then, to build each of our successive subtle bodies/vehicles, & then drop them at the point of merging with the Source? Could one not go "direct" to the Source, as it were, & avoid the steps in between (ever the short cut!)

PS I f everything were fail safe how would the condition of being lost or earthbound occur? Or is that also a result of previous mindset & behaviour?

Namaste

[Smittoh]

The spirit body can again be thought as a vibration of your mind, beyond the other vibrations that make up your mind. It is so very subtle, its energies are overlaid by all the "disharmonies" in your lower bodies. When you dissolve the ego into nothingness, the spirit body will be revealed, attained and become the resting place of your mind, a state of calm and centeredness your being resettles in.

I have no idea what it is like, of course. But you can compare this process the Taoists describe to Monroe's experiences, where he first worked through his own life's emotional and mental traumata (the clickout experiences sent by the INSPEC in "Far Journeys") and then through the psychic and karmic ones (recollecting his own past lives from their trauma in "Ultimate Journey"). This cleaning up is part of his evolution towards spirit.

The Oneness with the Universe is another frequency of your mind. Your mind is said by many trustworthy sources to be capable of tuning into the ever-bigger awareness around you, including the Oneness. This is even subtler. Merging into such a state of continued and unending consciousness is one part of the Taoist path.

You can glimpse, but there is no avoidance of learning to overcome limitations of ego and so on first. You may take the sneak peek, but attaining the spirit body or the Tao - there are no shortcuts. Many of these experiences can be scary to the mind that is not ready. What is the natural state for a prepared mind at ease can be a scary horror trip when you pierce the veil by force...

Earthboundness according to Robert and Monroe happens when people "just carry on", get fixated, and so on. In the end, time does not matter. Everything will work out. I cannot say how, but no negative condition is for forever.

The fail-safety is the fact that your awareness cannot be taken away. It will one day be recovered, and will set you free. No matter what.

Oliver

[Uplillacype]

I'll tell you how I see it (and it being my opinion, you can take it or leave it):
First, my opinion is that anything that involves breathing and body awareness is energy work, so even doing deep breaths to calm down when you're upset is energy work. Ballet:energy work. All types of martial arts: energy work; weight lifting, thanks to it's reliance on breathwork to stay healthy is energy work. When I was a lot younger and did some swimming, I remember doing deep-breath exercises to make me able to hold my breath longer. Guess what? I had all kinds of projections in those times, and cases of astral sight too. Now I realize that all that deep breathing had something to do with it. So I do believe we do a lot of inadvertent energy work, even if our lives are not centereed on the spiritual.

About the energy body: (And this is my belief, of course):
We exist simultaneously in all aspects of reality, including the astral planes. I am sitting here in front of the computer after only one cup of cofee ) writing about transcendental aspects of being , and at the same time I'm thinking about my kid, wandering about in the astral checking on his unprojected double, and in the mental, buddhic, atmic, etc. etc. planes. At this point I could be talking to an avatar, guardian angel, someone else's higher self, etc. and even at the same time be taking a look at some of the hell planes, especially if I'm mad or worried about something.
My point is that you don't need a specific energy body to be in any of these states, which are natural to you as a multidimensional being- you do however need them to perceive whatever information you want to use or remember, and this (IMO) is why we have to cultivate it.
So it is my opinion that you do not need to 'burn off' anything to 'achieve' a state, because there is nothing to achieve-What you do have to is let go or evolve out of the attachment to a particular state to be able to focus on another state, if this is what you feel led to do.
Sort of the reason why we should be in 'trance' (that is, the physical senses 'turned off') to be able to tune into the next state (to me it's all the astral, but I realize we are talking graduations of focus)- but even that is doubtful, as any magician can attest to when their training includes being able to 'tune into' two or more states of being at once.
Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

[Smittoh]

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

I don't.

Oliver