[Quality4Qty]

Hello,

I just read one of the FAQ's where Robert Bruce states that he recomends using a "hard backed chair with no head support" for OBE training... I am wondering if your head should remain as if you were awake (straight position) or you have to recline it (back or to one side) as if you were sleep. If you have an OBE your muscles are able to keep your head straight up? or is it like when you sleep that all yuour muscles loose control?
Any input on this? because I have been training to havean OBE in an horizontal position without good results so I want to try the sitting position but I am not sure how should I place my head.

Thank you

[jeargefef]

The reason that he suggests this is to avoid your falling asleep when in practice/trance, but if that is so uncomfortable for you to even reach trance, then you should incline it enough to be comfortable and relaxed.
In short, it depends on your personal needs.
In other words, whatever gets you relaxed enough but not go to sleep.

[bestcigsnick]

personally I can't even fall asleep on back let alone in a chair WITH head support unless I'm REALLY tired. So it does depend on personal needs.

I don't get the no head support thing because for OBE to happen you need mind AWAKE boday ASLEEP, so your body will lose control of the muscles. If you are upright your head will slump forward or to the side which personally I find cause a terrible ache in the muscles there. Robert talks about the ideal position for OBE is inbetween sitting and lying down so a lazy boy is the optimal solution for this in recline mode. I haven't tried this out but I m currently looking for a second hand reclining chair *with head support*.

Good luck!

[jeargefef]

I have a recliner that I use just for projection (and the occasional nap) and it works wonderfully for me.

[MiniBoy]

I used to work with my bed, lying flat on my back which didn't used to be how I normally sleep...but go figure I began to fall asleep in meditations while in that position. I'm now working on sitting in a tv-type chair...I've even tried the kneeling position...well, kinda like the Muslem Prayer position they kneel in when they pray. Its quite comfortable.

[Quality4Qty]

Thanks for everyone's input. Today I tried doing it without head support and it was extremely uncomfortable for me so for now I will not try that...

Zachary, you mention that the body is asleep when in an OBE, but I am not so sure about that. I remember reading about an OBE method where you need to have some keys in your hand and if you fall asleep then the keys fall and they wake you up. I think that if you have an OBE the keys are nos supposed to drop.. at least that is what I understood about that method but I do not remember well..

[jeargefef]

Your body should be asleep and your mind awake. It is after much practice, and not everyone can do it, that you can OBE while your body is awake. Please realize that even though you may be asleep, you don't necessarily have to be completely paralyzed, although sometimes that is the case.
The key-holding method is an exercise to cultivate awareness when your body falls alseep, and to witness the event, as opposed to 'clicking out.'

[bestcigsnick]

Yeah CFT got it covered. Save the key exercise till you've been doing this for 30 years

I hear there was some member of the golden dawn who could literally OBE whenever and whereever she wanted to AND fully control both bodies at once. It wasn't Dion Fortune but one of those woman in the order.