[+++Poguru+++]

Bear with me, I'm trying to understand this reasoning.
AM wrote: In order to have a proof of the dimensional bodies I place my hand in a basin full of water. Theoritically I should have waves but nothing appears. Sure I must do it again to confirm that. Are you trying to correlate the feeling of vibrations with waveforms appearing in water? It's possible that they are so subtle that you won't be able to see them, and then your heartbeat can 'skew' the results. Is it possible that vibrations are something else altogether, a trick of perception, as in your perceptions switching from the 'long wavelength to short wavelength'? In a nonlocal way? Just a few thoughts.

[w4HPpbSW]

-> CFTraveler,
If I have waves that means they are coming from physical body.
Il I have no waves that means they are coming from etheric body.

[+++Poguru+++]

Or it means that your brain is affecting your nerves to have that perception (like an epileptic seizure.) I'm not advocating for that, I'm just trying to illustrate that the alternatives are not so clear-cut, especially when you use the words 'proof' and 'evidence'.
I'm not sure if you know this, but epileptics have 'electric storms' that can cause the same type of experience of the vibratory kind. I personally know someone who has this. And he doesn't OBE.

[w4HPpbSW]

-> CFTraveler,

Epilepsy is for the brain, not for the hands. Crisis are not commanded.



It is not the same thing than command vibrations.

[+++Poguru+++]

It is in the brain but the vibrations can be felt all over the body, as in my friend's case. He doen't command vibrations, but he can feel when a seizure is coming, and vibrations are part of his pre-seizure symptoms.
What I'm saying is that feeling something is not evidence of it being there in physical objective way. And the brain can induce a perception anywhere in the physical body.
Like I said, I do not believe that vibrations are epileptic symptoms, in fact in other threads have argued for the OBE state not being a side effect of epilepsy caused by the brain.
My objection to this theory is that you are extrapolating from data in a way that I do not find probative.
But then this is my opinion.

[w4HPpbSW]

I did a new test but I changed the breathing.
Inhalation pushing the stomac outside, exhalation pulling the stomac inside (breathing of fire for Kundalini). Lotus posture. I forgot the Gyan Mudra for the hands. As soon I put my hands in the right posture the vibrations come. Only 2 minutes. I put my right hand in the basin. I lit with a flashlight the basin (with my left hand totally numbed) and I saw little waves on the surface of the water.

Next time I will try without Gyan Mudra.

[w4HPpbSW]

I did another attempt without Gyan Mudra. It is the same thing vibrations at 2 minutes. I put my hand in the basin and I see waves. Later when my hand didn't vibrate I put again my hand in the basin. I see the same waves.

I come to the conclusion vibrations make no waves.

[nizcreare]

Physical relaxation of the body allows the breathing to move the entire body. This is different than the vibrations felt before going out of body. I did read somewhere, though, that if you have a very difficult time getting the vibrations it can help to actually intentionally cause the physicaly body to move between 0.5 to 3 Hz in a wave-like pattern. This movement is to be very subtle and to last only until no longer needed.

[w4HPpbSW]

-> Tom,

Now I am trying to integrate the Fire breathing in my OBE attempts (MAP technics).
Do you mean the Lied Fire Breathing could give more chances to leave the body?

[nizcreare]

It is easier to do the breathing patterns when you are laying down on your back, and since there is less effort involved physically it should be easier to get out of body.

[n2Oddw8P]

I came across a practice called "holotropic breathwork". It seems to rely on hyperventilation to induce alternate states of consciousness:

http://www.breathwork.com/
http://www.psywww.com/asc/obe/hbw.html

[w4HPpbSW]

-> Blue Mage,

Thanks for the links. It is like that:
I tend to be a "good" breather, which I think means that I breath very fast and very deep and keep it going most of the time. I think this results in some pretty profound experiences. After a short while, my hands, face, and perhaps my feet get tingley and numb. My hands actually start to curl up into a rigid cramp called tetany. Occasionly that cramping will extend into my arms, and down into my feet, and I need help from my sitter to help straighten my hands out. It's amazing to me that, by my second HBW session, the tetany has begun to dimminish during the breathing, and will probably disappear completely.the next time I do HBW. I had always thought tetany was a biological fact associated with hyperventilization, but not so. The experience of feeling my hands work through the tetany and 'open up' is incredible. A great heat seems to grow up my arms, my hands start to get hot and, after a while, start to vibrate violently. In my second session the main thing I did was hold my arms in the air above me and just feel them vibrate. After that session, I had the uncanny but distinct feeling that there was somehow more "me" in my hands and arms than before, and I noticed that I could see the veins in my palms more clearly! Although it's been about two weeks since my last session, my hands still feel warmer than usual. Actually they feel rather hot. Other people have reported their creative and healing abilities opening up when tetany is worked through. -- it's too soon for me to tell. (nnknown) Out of Body Experiences
Since this will be posted to that group, I want to touch on the relevance of HBW to OBE's. In spite of what I wrote regarding my first session, I would say that it might help to a small degree. Over the past week I have had one OBE and several body energy shifts that indicate an OBE is about to start. (I don't go OB easily). I now know what the body energy feeling is like and I'm less afraid of it. I believe this is a direct result of my last HBW session.which partly consisted of the recall an astral memory. However: I can guarantee that HBW is not a "ticket" to having successfull OBE's!, My last experience put me closer to "remembering" what it's like to have an astral body, but there is no way to predict that I will have a comparable HBW session in the future or, if I did, it would help me achieve an OBE again.
However, even if HBW was of no help to acheiving OBE's, it does help me get closer to my spirit, which is the real goal of an OBE anyway. (unknown)