[lasadeykar]

The golden rule of science is that nothing can be proven! That is science's own application. Science isn't blind to the fact that nothing can be true - only reinforced. If NASA have used Jupiter's magnetic field to catapult a rocket that is low on fuel back to the earth and they managed to get it there in the first place, then there are certain objective truths manifest in those experiments, and in the environment around us. It's no great shakes for a civilisation to reach a consensus on what ought to be right or wrong...it wouldn't be much use to us if we're undecided about whether murder was to be permitted or not is it. Life certainly wouldn't be worth living - it would be frightful.

personally I believe that this 'your own perceptions and reality are right for you,' argument is a lame cop-out. It kinda takes secularism to a new level...a level which noone else has the right, or the mind to intrude upon. isn't life lonely enough as it is?

[R1king]

lol...you guys are getting a little deep...remember this topic is about the Akashic Records

[Misiotoagodia]

Well, I'd consider it relative to the akashic records. Here's an example of astral absurdity that I've never been able to get my head round. Maybe someone can guide me in the right direction.

In AD Robert says that we cannot visit a place unless we have a previous memory of it. fair enough - I can see that. So - how on earth can someone visit the inside of a wall and note that it's luminous in there? Not that there is really an 'inside' to wall considering that the wall is made of the same stuff (inside and out). So - concerning the akashic records, are we saying here that because noone has got a pervious memory of it it is imaginary? Does everyone (to rely on PHG's subjective belief) have their own Akashic records?

[MexicoCity]

Well, I'd consider it relative to the akashic records. Here's an example of astral absurdity that I've never been able to get my head round. Maybe someone can guide me in the right direction.

In AD Robert says that we cannot visit a place unless we have a previous memory of it. fair enough - I can see that. So - how on earth can someone visit the inside of a wall and note that it's luminous in there? Not that there is really an 'inside' to wall considering that the wall is made of the same stuff (inside and out). So - concerning the akashic records, are we saying here that because noone has got a pervious memory of it it is imaginary? Does everyone (to rely on PHG's subjective belief) have their own Akashic records?

Well, here's how I would interpret that (not that I really agree with the memory thing, but just how I would look at it
Yes, there are objective areas in the universe as we define objective (they are there whether we consciously believe it or not) but our perception of it would be colored by our memories.
For example, to use the astral locale example: You and I can both go to the same astral locale (or focus of consciousness) and come away with different descriptions of the experience, colored by our own experience memories. Where you see a being of light I might see an unicorn (corny-bleh) and where you see a spider I might see a roach, for example.
The locale is preexisting (if possible) but the experiences rely on our ability to understand or process them, and that is referenced by our memories.
As for the akashic records, for example, I have received information about certain physical disorders that pertain to my life experience (or rather affect it) where you might go to the same 'library' and get information on some other theme, that pertains to your life experience. It's not that we create the AR, but that we contribute and receive from it depending on our own needs.
Now about objectivity, if you get into the metaphysical (which is not what this conversation is really about, if I'm reading this right) if you subscribe to the notion that we are interconnected in a non-local way,and would follow the idea that the universe is a construct created by the whole consciousness in which we are a part of,then objectivity would be relative to the point of view. As in individual vs. collective consciousness (or unconscious, but that's another thread suited for the more philosophically inclined.)
Peace and Love.

[R1king]

So did Robert really say you can't go to a place in the astral unless you have a previous memory?? So does he consider the Real Time Zone and the Astral different places, because I am pretty sure he said you can go anywhere in the world in the real time zone and watch what is happening now.

[Misiotoagodia]

Daniel - I've read it so many times over the past 10 years that I pratically know it like my abc's RB says (in AD) that you cannot go anywhere that you don't previously have a memory of. If you think about it realisitically, it's terribly easy to discount 'real' time travel based on the fact that noone (despite the increasing numbers of people projecting) has amazed us with a revelation previously unknown. For example: I could tape a meassage to a known landmark in the Uk (stonehenge perhaps) and ask a real-time traveller to fly to the stone and relay the message. But that is not possible because in another part of the book Robert says that it just isn't possible to travel from here to amercia because you might get lost on the way (true). But! You can travel to other planets because apparently it's a simple case of straight up, straight down. So - in consideration of those points (and countless more written in AD) it is not a 'real' time zone atall?? And let me just remind you that RB (before anyone starts a subjective/objective debate) writes - "Everything in the astral is subjective."

So, again - how can the akashic records be trusted as a 'real' place when a place such as the 'real' real-time zone does not, in fact, have any basis in reality, apart from in the projector's memory?

[NikkitaZ]

The following is true if and only if what enoch says is true about Robert Bruce stating that notion that we can only go to, astrally, places that we have a memory of. Otherwise, none of what I have typed matters. Since I can't remember whether Robert Bruce says that in his "AD" or not, I'll be wise and make this opening clause/disclaimer before the rant:

(OK, here we go...)

I disagree with Robert that you can't go anywhere astrally without a previous memory of it. That just doesn't ring true with me.

My experience of OBEs and lucid dreaming demonstrate otherwise. I continue to experience new feelings, new places, meeting new people and creatures. Sure, there's the familiar things that I've seen and been to before that I still experience. But all in all, it's not homogenous. It's not like I'm revisiting someplace I've been to before, but I just couldn't remember it. No, that's not happening at all with me. No experiences of deja vu or past memories coming back.

What's the point of exploring OBEs and lucid dreams if it's always going to be the same old, same old??? I think Robert Bruce is mistaken on his notion that we can only go to places we have a memory of. That implicitly contradicts the whole premise of an OBE. Robert's notion implies that OBEs are not OBEs, that they are some kind of illusion or VR program constructed by our brains (reason: if where we can go astrally is determined by whether or not we have a previous memory of it, then that means anything that is astral does not exist outside of ourselves and can only exist within wherever it is that holds those memories, via our brains)! I disagree with him on his "understanding" of OBEs.

(OK, now that that is done...)

People, I don't side with objectivity or subjectivity. I'm completely outside this debate. I think they both co-exist together. My point is just to get away from the two-way argument, because it benefits no one to side with either/or. No one's better off stating solely with just one side. It doesn't help your understanding of something to be one-sided, and therefore it's not a constructive activity. It rewards an "us" against "them" mentality, and I'm not going to play along with that.

(... and about the Akashic Records...)

The subject of the Akashic Records is bound to bring up these bi-polar debates of objectivity versus subjectivity (reason: since the Akashic Records hold all information about everything in the past, present, and future, it's safe to say that, somehow, the Akashic Records must be deeply connected with the experience of reality itself for all beings/entities, which would hint at possibilities of the Akashic Records being some kind of TOE, or Theory of Everything, so when ideas from science enter the discussion, people are already ingrained with scripting from books, school, magazines, and TV to start up the whole "this versus that" debate that is seen elsewhere in mass media, which in this case will be the objective vs. the subjective). Isn't the title of this thread just "Akashic Records"? That doesn't give us much parameters to tweak with, so what we do next is make up our own parameters and that might as well be whatever could possible relate to "Akashic Records". It works kind of like a search engine, it's just, unfortunately, that happens to be the mode of social interaction here on this thread! Ha ha!!

[Misiotoagodia]

great read, cep2plet

When you write that 'robert says that obe's are not obe's," what do you mean by that? Who defines an obe? Someone who obe's just like you do but had the time and inclination to write a book about it? or you who obe's but has not?

I respect you for challenging the norm but if you expect a reply then you're wanting.

And...

If you expect members to relate to AD and MAP on Roberts terms then you're asking the impossible.

[AnetTeilor]

I am not going to pretend to be an expert on reality. However I can speak from my own experience (all 15 years of it )

In my opinion subjectivity is all there is. I would say the universe is subjective. but hell there is no unvierse. It doesn't exist. It can't. Not within the limits of true subjectivity. Which ironically has no limits.

[R1king]

Well I used to have the AD book, but my dad threw it away and I since havn't purchased another one, which I didn't get to read much out of anyways. But I have read the Treatise on OBE's a great many times and it didn't imply that you could only go to places you have been before...if Robert really is imply that...then I see what you are saying about how it would only be in the mind. I truly believe that you can go other places you haven't been and haven't seen around the world.

Remember Robert Monroe? I was reading a book by him and he actually went a great distance away from his projecting place (home) and saw what was going on with one of his friends. He called her up and asked what she had done earlier that day, and to his great surprise she was doing exactly what he had observed.

It is, from my understanding, that once you consciously astral project, you are in the "real time zone" and can go anywhere you want in the physical reality and observe what is going on (after all, that's what ghosts do isn't it?!) it's just the problem of being able to stay in the RTZ for more than a few seconds for most of us.

Give me your thoughts on this...and keep projecting!

[Misiotoagodia]

Daniel...opening paragraph of chapter 7, AD

"Let's define an objective experience as one in which perceptions are gained directly through the physical body senses, and a subjective experience as perceptions gained or affected by mind or imagination. In those terms, when dealing with out-of-body experience, everything is subjective."


Page 354 of same book covers (in detail - too much to copy here) the problem of projecting to a place if you don't have a previous memory of it. Basically, you can create an imaginative astral 'copy' of the location but it won't be the 'real' thing.

Off course, they're the opinions of one man. I haven't projected yet so I tend to trust his word more than most - mainly because he's straight-up about it all

[Enladalusange]

Thanks Hypnogirl,

That clears a lot of things up in my mind...although I'm still confused about somthing though...If you say we can only go to places in the astral we have already been, is that only in the conscious state?? Because if not, then how would the subconscious mind ever get anywhere?

I think I understand about that Akashic Records being a consciousness, now I just need to figure out how to get there without creating a replica of it in the dream world...

[Misiotoagodia]

No phg...he explicitly says that it is problematic to visit places in the real-time zone that we don't have a memory of. he says that we could create our own image of it but it wouldn't be that actual place. he recites a tale of a group of Astral travellers who claimed to have met up on a well known rock formation in Australia. He remarks that they didn't atually visit it in real time because they were mistaken as to it's features. He mentioned that because they haven't been there in real life they imagined it. Everything is 'subjective, as he says. It has nothing to do wit places we have been to in the astral. he also states that you can, by all means, visit a neighbour house, but if you have never been there to collect a memory of that house then you're likely to just be imagining that you're there. memory, subjectivity, blah blah.

[R1king]

Weird...hmm....well I am not going to believe that...I am going to find out for myself.

I just can't logically put together how having a memory of a place would allow you to go there in real time while you are in the same zone...with the neighbor thing. Don't know...this is interesting, and I hope RB can clear this up.

Moderator, can you ask Robert to visit this topic and post a reply please.

[Misiotoagodia]

Pose a question in ask RB. But I doubt you'll receive a reply because it's all covered in the lit. Anyway, straying from the topic a little, so, the akashic records - fount of divine wisdom - where is it? The wisdom? Plenty of colourful worlds painted, plenty of clap-trap....no divine wisdom. No messenger. No uncanny predictions. Nothing. Why?

[R1king]

Hmm...Maybe we're not allowed to get at it.

I really want to use it to review my life...when I was a child and can't remember what happend. I'm sure that's possible.

[Misiotoagodia]

Try memory enhancement. You could pick up a psychologist's full manifesto (if you have the time, a library card and discipline). You could take the easy (and legal) route and imbibe low doses of salvia divinorum which is excellent at reviving vivid (and I mean literally visual) childhood memories. Or you could learn to project. I do all three projection is the hardest for me, but the hardest and most frustrating thing about not having any experience of an phenomena when many people around you have, is the thirst for information about this realm. Sometimes it isn't forthcoming, sometimes it is.

[R1king]

That sounds interesting, I will check it out!

I have projected several times...been doing it for over three years...had over 40 OBE's in the first two...now I can't seem to get any which sucks...but I am working on it.

[dmoiknlasd]

I have projected several times...been doing it for over three years...had over 40 OBE's in the first two...now I can't seem to get any which sucks...but I am working on it.

Plateaus can be reached in projection . These can be caused by negativity and resulting lowered vibrations.Sadness , grief , anger , rage and other such emotions also lower our vibration . Illnesses and traumatic events can precipitate a plateau also . To begin with OBE again , raise your vibration . Do good things for others . Service lifts us up . Build up your light quotient by powering up the energy body daily . NEW works wonders with this . Sit in meditation daily too . Then try napping when exhausted from heavy labour .

open in protection
deep cleansing breaths
power up bringing energy into the feet and up to the heart and out the arms and over the shoulders
lie down in a fetal position
males on left side , females on the right side
bring the lower legs and forearms into alignment
think of where you want to go or whom you want to be with
see it in your minds eye visualise and will it
with physical eyes open stare at a place far away from you
i prefer the further part of the ceiling
when the vibes begin in the legs ,seperate
I think of it as pushing up out of the bottom of a deep pool
and heading for the surface
When the mind is awake and the body is asleep you will have a better chance of recall , so when you wake from the nap , write it down
or try to set an alarm to wake you in the journey so you might
recall the re entry and a different part of the OBE

Back on topic , the akashic records are real . You can go there . You can go any place that you have a core image of in your head . You can also go to new places by attaining a realm and exploring further .

[Misiotoagodia]

fair enough, Aunt Clair, but we seem to have a question about what is 'real'. I can close my eyes, relax and walk around a library, pulling books of shelves, etc. So, is this akashia? How do you define it and what benefits does it have?