[Nurse_sero]

Hi everybody, I just had to share and get this out there, I strongly strongly believe that there is an invisible force at work that connects us all. The more people that have, and believe in OBE's the more easy it will be to have them. We will travel many dimensions and finally have the answers to our deepest questions about who we are and why we are here ect... There is ancient knowledge out there about our powers, secret goverments try very hard to keep us from learning this. One of there best weapons is to ridicule those who speak of this sort of stuff. Nobody should worry about people thinking they are crazy. TALK ABOUT IT!!!
Get the word out, teach someone how to do this. The thoughts will manifest into reality. Thanks God bless

[Poothevokprot]

Thanks! I totally agree with you! I tell everyone I know about this and they don't seem to mind too much, ha ha.

[Sukadrukanga]

I wish my experience had been so positive. I have not been taken away or locked up, but I know it happens. I have gotten negative and hostile reactions from many people. I know (now) its their fear but it still feels bad. I would like to think that society is loosening up but I am still cautious.

Sharing the insight seems to go well if I don't tell them how I got it.

[crycleascentyv]

Why are governments attempting to conceal this information? For what purpose? The small minority of people who do obe on a regular basis have never really had an advantage, so what is there so precious or so explosive 'out there' that it needs to be suppressed? I'm not trying to brush this aside but would like to know, from those who do regularly obe, what they believe?

[kuzbaslachek]

Why are governments attempting to conceal this information? For what purpose? The small minority of people who do obe on a regular basis have never really had an advantage, so what is there so precious or so explosive 'out there' that it needs to be suppressed? I'm not trying to brush this aside but would like to know, from those who do regularly obe, what they believe?

Unlimited individual power. Once enough people awaken and realize that the government has been controlling their mind then that is the end of government in all forms.
It takes a pure will to be 'tapped in' and then to allow each to follow their own destiny, rather than supressing the information to better serve another agenda.
The higher astral planes do practically encompass the totality of that power and the essence of just what our soul can accomplish if no-one is there to stop it from happening.

wstein, I think people are opening up to this much more now. I have gotten quite positive input most of the time (or just being ignored at worst),
but the problem I often have is 'where to start' with someone who has never heard of quantum mechanics before -- 'we are all one' ... 'right how'? It's something I just know so I would not know how to go about explaining it...
I think people need to not just open up to new perceptions, but actually be willing to go within too for any progress to eventuate.

[crycleascentyv]

Thanks Sash. Can I ask a question? Who are "people" who need to wake up? And when you mention that the government are controlling people's minds, in what way do you mean? Do you mean trough media? Through the economy? ideology? Culture? Religion? I think that most people, when they reach a certain level of maturity, are aware that we are culturally conditioned (by an elite minority) to serve a function (mainly capitalism/consumerism/materialism in the west) but where does this fit into astral projection? Are all those who obe out of work? Don't watch the tv? Don't use technology? (such as the web) and live in mud-huts? I don;t understand the mind-control angle here. Are you saying that the government are restricting people's access to the astral? if so - why? Is AP like lsd? As soon as you experience it you wanna drop out? Would it affect the economy? Would it affect national security? I don't quite grasp the reasons here

[kuzbaslachek]

David Icke just might be worth reading if you have an interest in these issues.

The aim is basically to push people into as much of a material state as possible. Even still, the lower astral planes are around us and if we look they are there (auras, ghosts, and such). The more we evolve together, the more this will be so. The astral plane should merge much more with the physical when a critical number of people who can tap into that world is met.

It is quite fear based, which won't be so when there is no fear of not having money or being safe from war since we will be able to manifest those things with our own individual power rather than give it away to some collective organization.
I think it has been propelled quite well, when we consider how the government uses fear to get people to follow only what they determine to be true. There are countless lethal diseases and other things we are meant to be afraid of, the Church will often consider astral projection as the work of demons. It is all about fear, always.
You could watch 'tv' on your wall just by developing clairvoyance, but rather our conventional tv makes the mind more passive and causes people to fall even more into line with the culture and idiology of governments.

The astral is the passage to freedom, and there have always been people who do not want us to experience that. I could not explain the motives in enough depth here, but I do think some of David Icke's work might interest you.
Something that causes fear pushes people away, something that sais 'No' causes rebellion. Hence with LSD and drugs the government sais No because this will cause people to take them. However with astral projection the method to block it out is much more refined because it stands for true liberation of the individual which is the ultimate experience one can have.

[crycleascentyv]

But doesn't the physical body remain firmly chained to the earth during astral projection?And since when have the government been encouraging people not to project? It isn't illegal. They spend no time whatsoever on propaganda regards AP. The collective organisation you speak of is an organisation that, amongst other things, collects and distributes our money in order to allow us to drive our cars on safe roads, empty our refuse, provide us with national security, treat us for potentially fatal diseases, etc, etc. All these day-to-day activities would still exist if there were no government - it's our way of ensuring optimal survival. So - what would change if everyone were APing? And - who would empty the bins and cut the lawn?

[kuzbaslachek]

Consider the bigger picture. When we act ourselves we strengthen our own will, when we let others act in our interest we give away that power. The physical comes from the astral, so I think the aim is to get back to that higher consciousness rather than focusing on maintaing this one.

[crycleascentyv]

We do act for ourselves. Even if there were no government we'd still need to keep clean, defend ourselves, find food, maintain moral standards, bring up our young, etc etc. The democratic government is one elected by the people to act in the people's interests (sometimes). is the astral a kind of heaven for the 21st century? The physical comes from the astral? I've never heard that before. I'm a little confused by this whole government thing. Maybe I'm just getting the wrong end of the stick or something.

[kuzbaslachek]

We perceive from the physical which is probably why we see it as the primary reality, and the Astral and such are all "other" things that extend from the physical.
Take it as an opinion, but I feel it resonate with me that the original pure Consciousness by focusing on other than itself creates matter (secondary reality). Hence in the Astral, mind > Matter. Now if a great number of people use Thoughts to state (create) 'I can't do this...' 'I can't do that', matter solidifies.
It is creation of Mind that "I can't", hence we can not walk through walls or fly into the stars because the collective human race built this 'v. low sub-plane of the Astral' if you like. Obviously this is a simplistic model.

I've done a lot of reading and introspection before coming to the conclusion so I apologize for making the ideas confusing. These are not conventional ideas.
On the note of the Government being democratic though, I think if we turn on the TV we can come to question that now just from listening to the stuff that has been happening right in front of us.

[nerohedfrs]

sash wrote: I've done a lot of reading and introspection before coming to the conclusion so I apologize for making the ideas confusing. These are not conventional ideas. I do believe that these ideas are actually more conventional than we think- it's just that we've inherited them mythologized by religion- at least most religious traditions.
For example: The idea that 'as above so below' is ancient, yet it can be used to describe just that process-the spirit giving birth to the material.
also, in the Bible "In the Beginning, there was the Word, ...and the Word was God"- The greek work for 'Word' is Logos, which (more commonly) means "Idea". In other word, the material world is God's idea=The spirit being made flesh.
The ancient Hindus believed in the Atman as first cause-
The (maybe) ancient Hebrews, in the Kabbalah, Cite first Cause as Ein Sof, Which is God unmanifest, as first cause for All that manifests, including God (it)self.
The ideas that spirit begat matter are very old, and it's only been relatively recent that science began to see energy as a by-product or property of matter.
That is, until Relativity and Quantum Physics. Einstein began to discover that matter is made of energy, (E=MCsquared) that matter is only the result of energy expressed in time-space. And then Quantum scientists began to realize that atomic structures are not planet-like particles of matter going around, but wave patterns interacting with each other, and those interactions are what we think of atomic parts.
If you take a look at quantum physics, you realize that it describes material reality as the result of energy slowing down enough for us to perceive it using photons as the way to perceive them. (In other words, we 'see' the world because we are looking at the photons that bounce at our eyes from the object we see', for example.)
You may think: Why is she talking about energy becoming matter? Well, it is my opinion that what we call 'energy' is what the ancients called 'spirit.'
But then, that is my extrapolation.
Ever wonder why spiritual gurus speak about 'increasing our frequencies' to advance spiritually?
Think about it.

[Nurse_sero]

WELL said Sash!!!
There are so many reasons for secret goverments to try and keep these types of abilities secret or discouraged. Look what they did I think it was in the 1800's. Thousands of men and women were burned at a stake for tapping into these abilities. I do believe in a God, Im still searching for answers, I believe alot of those answers are in the "astral state" If we all began to communicate telepathically, which I believe is how we truly were meant to be, or used to be, nobody would be able to control us. Ive asked myself this same question, why on earth would anyone want to keep us from evolving to higher consciousness, a higher state of love, closer to God, ect... The only reason that makes sense to me is that there truly is a battle of good and evil going on. Evil is what is trying to keep us unattached to eachother, unattached from God.
My intuition tells me that we are nearing the end of this battle, and everyone is starting to wake-up from this brain-washed state. People have to try and get rid of there ego's that are keeping them from the
truth. So many people do not want to believe that they have been lied to and supressed their whole life. Gosh its hard for so many to just stop and ask for directions and admit they are lost!! (ha-ha) dang-it No spell check! my apoligies for any bad spelling

[crycleascentyv]

Sorry christine, but thousands of people (mainly women) were executed from 1500 to the late 1800's - if you're talking about witchcraft that is. One of the axial ways was the greek "logos" which is the foundation of scientific thought. It's a 'way' to establish the truth by weighing up all the evidence, from all sides! It came about at the same time as hinduism, taoism and bhuddism. I quite like the taoist principle...the uncarved block...what you see is what you get...the vinegar is either sweet or it's sour.

What brain-washed state are you referring to christine? Is there something that you know?

What are we being lied to about?

[kuzbaslachek]

enoch,
have you ever watched a movie called "The Matrix"?

[crycleascentyv]

I have sash. A good movie. A movie nonetheless. Why? I've seen ET too.

edit: out of cusriosity: think about all the fiction you've seen and read during your lifetime (Alice In Wonderland, The Wizard of Oz, Mary Poppins, Back to the Future?) then tell me why you consider "The Matrix" movie to be based on fact?

I'm not being disrespectful here - the method I normally use to understand people's beliefs and attitudes is by challenging those beliefs and attitudes - merely out of curiosity than anything else

[Nurse_sero]

I once thought only women were killed for so called "witchcraft" then I read up on it and learned that men too were killed. Yes, you are right that it was mostly women. I thought I would be corrected if I only typed women, sorry for not typing in "mostly women"
Yes, they called it "witchcraft" but they considered having an OBE witchcraft, if you could predict something in the future, that was considered witchcraft and you were killed.
As for what lies we are told, It would take too long to list, then back it up with all my references. Here are just a few that I believe we have been lied to about: cures, UFO's, mans origin, Oh, and everything that has happened on earth!!

[kuzbaslachek]

Yeah it is not possible to cover the entire topic and cite all of the sources in a forum thread.

One of the chief premises of Quantum Mechanics is that the analysis of basic reality causes it to change (i.e. just by looking at the basic form the actual form changes, hence we cannot capture it).
Forms can cause matter to manifest, I've come to realize. However in the Astral we deal with more immediate forms, in the Mental we deal with pure thoughts in fact. Imagination is enough to create the actual in higher planes.

It is important to consider the context of this world, since it is just a small part of the greater universe, and a lower vibration at that. The importance of who constricts us to this segmented vibration can be left out of the discussion for now.
The essence of the point is the constriction itself, in each action people do there seems to be constriction, definition, categorization (and ultimately solidification of forms).
The Matrix is far from fact but just as Biblical scholars use Bible stories and myths as a metaphor to chase the essence behind them, it does the same.

The film in that sense requires an abstract look rather than a direct one to be applicable to how the world exists. It is full of allusions, which can be followed to free ourselves from the repression caused in this constriction of the world and segmentation from the greater universe.

I think it is important to note that the individual is suppressed to great ends, with introspection comes the realization that we can do in fact nothing at all that we wish -- and all we do is done for others (employers, family, friends, social trends etc.).

[crycleascentyv]

Christine. During the 1600's if you were dunked in a bucket of water for 3 minutes and you lived you were a witch - then you were burned. If you died you were innocent. Good eh. All that happened over a period of 300 years. There was no hysteria. Reminds me of what the Indo-Iranians used to do. If a person was suspected of breaking the word of Mitra he was dunked into a bowl of water, another man fired an arrow and if he could run to the arrow, pick it up and get back before the man died then the man was innocent. There are countless other examples in early cultures that would shock you to the bone. It was going on for thousands of years (all in the name of religion/myth). Thankfully, the enlightenment came when it did or else we might possibly still be witnessing such acts of barbarism. When you have children and close loved-ones it's a relief to know that we have at least some form of justice based on factual evidence. I know it isn't perfect.

When Aztec men left their wives for a week or so to go hunting, if they were unsucessful then that was a sign that their wives had been unfaithful to them while they were absent. The men were permitted, in this instance, to return home and torture or murder their wives.

Regards UFOs. Here's an interesting topic: When Kenneth Arnold spotted those ufos in the 40's he reported them to the press as "balls of moving light." I've seen them myself - light balls, fireballs, etc. And you're right, they are unidentified. But - this is the catch - when Arnold described how these balls of light moved across the sky he said "similar to a saucer skimming on water." Suddenly the press picked up on this "saucer" thing and claimed that Arnold had seen "flying saucers." Which, you can see, isn't really the case (in reality...when the facts are rooted out). Suddenly, miraculously, hundreds of sightings of 'flying saucers' were reported. Overnight! How? Arnold hadn't seen falying saucers, he'd seen fireballs. But still, thanks to the media...the meme stuck, the west were enthralled and....flying saucers became a reality to them.

Interesting - determining what is real and what isn't.

For example: let's turn the tables here and let's say that the government are telling the truth and the authors of these ufo conspiracies are lying to you, exploiting your deep-seated need to believe in it - and making a financial killing out of you. They've studied the average pyschological make-up of their potential market, they've found out what most people want to hear, and they've given it to them and got rich. Remember - these ufo society meetings and confrences are run by those people who are selling you the conspiracy idea. They want you to believe because it pays their phone bill and feeds their kids.

OK - so how do you find the reality in this situation? Cut away at the layers of fantasy and get to the bare bones? Who is telling the truth and who is lying? You decide! But - are you right?

Sash - I know what you mean about quantum mechanics but I think entanglement and decoherence is the current favourite in the field. It makes sense because we simply don't live our lives at the quantum level. We experience solid matter and the moment the only plausible explantion we do have to explain what we get when we have masses of patricles working together - is entanglement and decoherence.

When you exclaim that this world is a "lower vibration" I simply don't understand what you mean. What vibration?

You're right - the individual is suppressed to great ends. If we live in a society dominated by elite capitalists then we're conditioned to become materialists and consumerists. We are conditioned to live by capitalist ideology. many people have argued over the centuries that religion was only embraced by the elite because it was a sure-fire way of taming the masses - the meek afterall would never think of revolting against the rulers...they are too busy loving thy neighbours and working hard. That left the elite to continue their agenda of persecution and barbarism (in the name of god). I mean - these people had their own family members executed.

So there we go. Where do we start when we wanna know some truth? Like you said Christine, there are many things - too many to list - but it's very important not to make your mind up based entirely on what you would like (in your ideal world) to believe.

[kuzbaslachek]

Yet most people function on beliefs of one thing or another, it is equal in effect to focus on ones own belief than other peoples since we are a belief-based social structure. The truth is a bit trickier.

I don't like using the word 'higher', as a fact at least. However the Astral is 'higher', than the physical as a metaphoric allusion to *some other truth* at least.
In this sense fluidity of forms == vibration (as another allusion).
The physical world is just like that Astral but it is smaller, and the Astral is bigger -- to extend the metaphor.

Astral forms participate in physical matter at least, however if I wish to pursue truth I look to the astral because it is a sub-form of the Monadic expression, and from there the physical is born and the whole Samsara begins. Of course the physical is further from the Monad, but in the astral it is possible to be closer to our origin.
Quantum Mechanics will demonstrate that the belief in a fixed physical reality is obselete, we are limitless beings and hold the code to liberation within our own soul (not in some other place we cannot reach).

I think it is then important to look inward and 'upward' for truth, but our social norms would have us looking outward with a focus on deep material entrenchment (supported with notions such as Religion).
For me the physical life is not conducive to the spiritual work, but this is not a constant -- it is what we made it in our conscious (or perhaps not) descent into materialism and greed.