[exchpaypaleg]

Hi again, Lonecrow. Why not ask RB where his other natural talents lie?

I wonder if there's any evidence Robert Monroe was good at visualisation? It's been a while since I read any of his stuff. I have a vague notion he was good enough at technical drawing to design the building at his institue.

There are others too, with websites where you could possibly leave messages and find out (like Kurt Leland- musician, or Bruce Mohen-engineer- or William Buhlman-can't remember).

I suspect Leonardo Da Vinci was good at the OBE. What a visionary and talent!

[kuzbaslachek]

I think Robert mentioned once that it is easier to project through the third eye than using lower chakras. People with an active third eye tend to have good visualization/clairvoyance/creativity.

[AbeldeldepBug]

LoneCrow, I understand the exasperation you must feel and like all of us who have obe's want to help as much as possible. I am no expert at all and although I remember periods of sleep paralysis as a child and some other odd things it was only after a nde that loosened my etheric body that I was able to project.( not recommended method) . Like Beekeeper mentioned, do you Lucid dream, because that is an easy way to at least get you out there. Maybe also try going as deep into trance as you can with the plan not to project, just to experience different sensations.Maybe the lack of pressure may help.I know I have said it before but I strongly feel the lunar cycle will be key, and although it is really hard work, mind training and the ability to be able to be blank is so important. Well for me anyway.

Thanks Yes it does seem odd that the 3rd eye viewing and different "symptoms" or odd happenings only happen certain times. Its like you'll have a dry spell and then a few days of good luck with it. I think the moons position relative to the sun and the time of night is more important than the actual "phase".

Could be interesting if someone could keep a journal and note the moon phase and relative time and time zone you are located in. See if we can start to see patterns. Then we can prepare ourselves for certain nights that are better for us to try.

[AbeldeldepBug]

Hi again, Lonecrow. Why not ask RB where his other natural talents lie?

I wonder if there's any evidence Robert Monroe was good at visualisation? It's been a while since I read any of his stuff. I have a vague notion he was good enough at technical drawing to design the building at his institue.

There are others too, with websites where you could possibly leave messages and find out (like Kurt Leland- musician, or Bruce Mohen-engineer- or William Buhlman-can't remember).

I suspect Leonardo Da Vinci was good at the OBE. What a visionary and talent!

I've never seen RB post in here! Would be interesting to know though. I mean some people have natural drawing ability but never develop it past doodling. Its like some people could possibly be great musical talents but never pick up an instrument in their lives so they'd never know they were any good.

Its that "go between" in the brain that allows people to create something out of thin air. Its something I don't have except in other areas that are not really important to OBE. Sense of humor for example. In everyday life, I was always quiet until I reached a certain age, where my life experience gave me repertoire of material to use on the spot. So as I got older the more talkative and to be quite honest, funny in social situations. But that is more of a repertoire of things that come natural.

I don't think visual arts are the same thing. It is more of a natrual ability where people don't even have a hard time being able to translate what they imagine onto paper. They may learn different techniques but that mental "ability" to draw from nothing ivisually is the thing I'm concerned about.

Its hard to explain.

[WumibBesowe]

I read this thread with interest LoneCrow.

I'm an artist currently doing a fine arts degree and I've always been able to visualize things. I can be driving along and be seeing the road, but also seeing a painting project (or whatever I'm thinking about) superimposed over my real vision. It's detailed and real, and almost like a video, although imagined. I know it sounds unlikely, but the vision of the road is stronger and I can easily see both at once. This isn't restricted to driving, but it's then that I notice it most.

I didn't think it was unusual until I mentioned it to my husband...and he thought I was bonkers...lol He thinks that a lot these days

Anyway, I used to have spontanious AP via SP (that scared me so much!) but I am in much better control of it since started the Astral Dynamics book.

I thought I'd add this as it did seem pertinent to the thread, which I've really enjoyed. Good luck with your attempts LoneCrow. For me, each AP or OBE is subtly different and can start in many ways, so I think there's very many different ways to get the same effect. You'll find your own way. xx

[ChyFDjfed]

This is an interesting discussion. I think any form of creative
ability (not just visual) can help, especially if you use what
you are good at in ways that can help. In terms of visual
imagination, I am a complete cripple. I can't draw my way
out of a paper bag. Remembering things by what they look
like is next to impossible for me. I have been able to make
this work when the OBE exit symptoms first appear; I'll
give an example of this in a moment.

Like some others who've replied to this topic, I am a musician.
My favorite hobby is composing classical music, and I can
hear things in my mind with extreme clarity. I've been able to
use this to help with the OBE at times.

Regarding hypnosis, it comes to me easily, and I need no
help from a hypnotist. I have a fairly severe case of OCD,
and I refuse to take any medication for it. If I allow it to, it
will keep me awake all night, so my way of dealing with it
has always been to use self hypnosis to put myself to
sleep. This works realy well for me, and that skill I think has
helped with my learning to induce OBEs. Only recently have
I begun to explore this, but all my life I've had spontaneous
OBEs, which until recently I thought were only dreams. Perhaps
the natural creativity that draws me to music composition is
a part of that.

Engergy work has been a habit for me ever since a few years
ago when I trained Taijiquan for a year. I think the spontaneous
OBEs came much more often after I had been doing this
for a while.

My visualization example: I normally can't visualize things
well at all - as I said, I have almost no ability to recall what
an image looks like. But yesterday, I did an OBE practice
session and ended up using visualization to make the
actual exit, and was amazed at how well it worked. I started
with a fairly long session of energy work, the small circulation
I was taught in Taijiquan. This is basically just a circulation
back and forth from the lower tan tien (sub-navel center) and
the upper tan tien (brow center). After this, I went to bed and
put myself into a deep hypnosis. When I was sure I was in the
low alpha state, just above the point where the hypnogogic
imagery starts, I used post-hypnotic suggestion to "remind"
myself that an OBE is so easy that the next time I go into the
hypnogogic state, I will just project automatically. After repeating
the suggestion for several minutes, the monotony of the
repeated suggestion began to put me to sleep, and as soon
as I entered the hypnogogic state, the sleep paralysis and
vibrations came on very strongly. Then I tried a few exit
techniques, and none of them seemed to work for me. So as
a last ditch effort, before the vibrations began to fade, I tried
imagining what my bedroom door (across the room) looked
like and found that I was able to see it clearly. So I imagined
seeing my right hand reaching to open it. Suddenly I was there!
I was amazed at how well this worked for me. I went through
the door and started going down the hall when, of all things,
the phone rang and pulled me out of it! There's always something
to get in the way!

On the whole, I have had more success imagining the
sounds that come with the vibrations, and I usually use
this approach. So for those of us who are musically
inclined, this might be the best way to go. Another thing
I've had some success with, after getting near the
hypnogogic state, is to imagine what it feels like to be
walking, running, of doing some of the Taiji movements.
Perhaps people who are more kinesthetically inclined
would have more luck with this approach.

Sorry about being so long winded with this - I'll blame that
on the OCD as well!

[exchpaypaleg]

Not long-winded, Perotin, fantastic! Great approaches here.

I suspect that accessing a range of sensory experiences (auditory, visual, tactile, kinesthetic and even the production of sound through chanting) is probably a good way to cover all bases. I've found all have had an impact at some point or other, even if they don't consistently produce an OBE. This could be me though.