[AbeldeldepBug]

I've wondered this.

I have wonderful natural musical talent, and creative talent when it comes to writing stories, writing music etc.

But I can't draw a darn thing. NOTHING. I just tried to do some acrylic painting and I can't do it. I don't have the patience. I used to do model airplanes and such, but everything was laid out for you.

But being able to draw from your mind, I just can't do it. I find that if I can see something I can sort of draw it.

I'm wondering those of you who are able to OBE even if it is only a couple times a year. How are your drawing/sculpting/painting skills? Were you always able to doodle?

What I'm getting at, is the ability for people to imagine something in their head before they draw it, right down to the details is a great ability. I cannot do it. I try to draw anything and I have no idea how to do the angles or colors or shades or lighting etc.

I think that people who have this talent are more able to project themselves out into the world. This is an interesting correlation for us to explore.

Can those of you who CAN OBE please tell us if you have ANY skill in drawing? Please reply even if it is a "yes" or "no".


PS - I've felt the urge to draw and paint recently. Especially natural environments. I even bought a kit, but I am so horrible at it, it is embarassing. I don't have the patience for it. But I'm wondering if this subtle voice telling me to try, is a means for me to try and imagine and create for a purpose. Possibly helping me project in the future...

[kuzbaslachek]

I'm going to take a view on this one that it isn't, not relative to ability to astral project, I don't think being artistic affects the ability as such. However the title of this thread "Artistic Oriented/Talented People More Prone to OBE?" then yes I would say. More prone.

Here is how I perceive this:
People who are artistic are more in touch with being.
People who are more in touch with being are more sensitive to the subtleties of being.
People who are more sensitive to the subtleties of being have a higher likelihood to be drawn to their higher self, which often enough will push them in the direction of astral projection, or finding out about it.

Thus more people who are artistic focused might well project on a scale relative to those that aren't, but I still contest that it doesn't alter the ability itself as such.

[crycleascentyv]

I don't know about this. I do know that results from manc university are due out any time soon. They're a little late I think. I recall the study focussing on personality type and obe!

As a guess I'd go with yes...those who are more perceptive, creative and open-minded are in for a better ride with obe. I think the first obstacle is belief. If you're too cynical, doubtful, and don't trust your creative forces and the power they have then you're in for a rough ride. But I may be wrong, I don't know.

I'd suggest you spend more time drawing from observation rather than memory. Get a good book that takes you back to basics...I don't think there were or are many artists who don't have some tricks up their sleeves...

[nerohedfrs]

I'm artistic and I OB- But I don't consider myself creative- which is why I'm not an artist. I do think that artistic people have a tendency towards open-mindedness, and when altered states happen, instead of running to the shrink, we go- "Hmmm... I wonder if I can do it again?"

[AbeldeldepBug]

What I'm saying is .. some of you can create something from nothing.

You are able to visualize what it is you want to draw/paint/scribble etc, and are able to do it naturally.

I can't visualize very well. However when I get 3rd eye visions some of the scenes are very vivid and created in my mind. I wonder how I am able to visualize that stuff subconsiously.

I'm wondering if this recent "subtle" prodding to get into painting and expressiveness it a sign for me. Sort of a learning process. A way to strengthen my mind and its ability to visualize.

I am still trying to believe that we are "actually" getting out of our body or if we are really just using our incredible imagination. Since I have a great imagination when it comes to certain thiings, but not in the area of drawing things from memory, I am wondering if that is why I have so much difficulty getting out.

After all the practice and positive intention. All the different techniques and symptoms I've had. I still cannot get out. there has to be a reason why.

[eropiereetuekm]

I am very good at imagination. It comes naturally. Painting what I picture in my mind however I have not develloped that much - I never was bad but I am no real talent. I think to draw the images on paper is a different thing that just to imagine them inside.

I don't have that much experience with OBE so far and most were unintentionally. But in all cases imagination worked quite well for *control*. In my lucid dreams it sometimes works and sometimes not - I have not found out when or why. I recall that in Astral Dynamics RB wrote something about how to control the astral and RTZ with your imagination (f.e. imagining a weapon in your hand and it appears). During my OBE's (probably RTZ) I was able to do magic stuff like telekinesis, too.

I think you might feel drawn to imagination and visualization as they seem to be powerfull tools and weapons for AP. Not neccesarily for Projecting itself (or I would be really good at that but once you succed to control it.

One more comment, have you considered that you did project successfully - just don't remember it. RB's theory of the mind-split explains this - pretty normal - lack of memory (I know I have trouble with this, too).

[exchpaypaleg]

I can draw but conscious projection is challenging for me and I haven't had many successes, especially recently.

Your desire to draw might be the result of energy work stimulating specific chakras. Drawing might not facilitate better projection but, rather, represent an untapped form of creativity that has now become available to you, if you care to work on it. It's also possible that you're Higher Self is leading you to drawing because there are other things you can learn from it, in addition to better visualisation, like patience and perserverence, perhaps.

If you've ever seen Vincent Van Gogh's first drawings, you'll realise that there is a considerable amount of learning involved in becoming a decent artist. That happens through practice and not letting your critical mind inhibit you by insisting on immediate perfection. A good book is "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain"

I believe music is just as likely to help with projection by co-ordinating different parts of the brain. Last year I took up piano because learning new things makes life interesting and keeps us sharp. I didn't expect to be able to do it instantly and I certainly wouldn't want to perform for anyone. You're a musician who can now become a visual artist. If drawing doesn't do it for you, try sculpture or photography. I imagine both would help your visualisation skills and I suspect the tactile/ kinesthetic aspects of sculpture could be useful too.

Cheers

[Ambrakam]

I find conscious projection easy and natural. I am not at all creative or artistic. I can not visualise in meditations however I strongly feel essences. I am not able to be hypnotised ( have had very qualified people try) all though I can get myself into a deep trance state. Mind you, I love and admire creative souls. I cannot sing to save myself and one time when I had projected into my garden in rtz, I thought I would be able to sing so I started amazing grace at the top of my voice and guess what? It was bloody awful.
PS Beekeeper where abouts on the south coast are you? I hope you dont mind me asking, I live in Camden but have a place in Coledale.

[AbeldeldepBug]

Thats my point though - you people with natural talent have atleast HAD an OBE. That is rare. I haven't. But it seems the artsy creative people who can let their spirit flow and produce creative things are more able to OBE even if they never intended it. They have it happen by accident.

Thats my point.

Alchemy is creating something from nothing. Those of you who are able to create something from your own mind are closer to the truth than you know.

[AbeldeldepBug]

Linda you sound like me. I know I can't be hypnotised, and if people tried I know it wouldn't work. Even if I tried hard. I seem to have a very hard time getting into a deep trance.

BUT I do sleep walk. I've woken up in some pretty scary situations at times. Then I'd wake up with my eyes wide open and realize I was not in bed. Freaky sometimes!

But when it comes to consciously trying to be in trance it never happens. Wonder what it means.

See, as I was growing up as a kid, I had alot of sleeping problems. I used to wet the bed. Now as I'm older I have apnea, and restless leg syndrome. So getting deep into trance without the aid of some sedatives is impossible.

The only times I've been close to obe were when I was medicated with pain meds and woke up in the middle of the night close.

[BritneySpearsFun@@@]

Funny. I cannot be hypnotized either. I've been to hypnotherapist and asked her to put me in deep hypnosis. She agreed and while (supposedly) in a deep state, tried to get me to lift my arm. I remember thinking, well, I guess it'll start liftin' by itself, I wonder if I'm supposed to lift it? So I decided not to lift my arm and the poor hypnotherapist kept on trying several times, until finally she just gave up. Maybe I was lifting my astral arm instead.

Back to the topic;
I love to draw, paint and write poetry (not so much in english as in my main language, though). I do not practice energy raising or try achieving any supernatural abilities, because things already go bump around me all the time! God knows what I'd get myself into if I started messin' with magick or such. (Though I might be pretty good at it). I just don't want to possess something I could use in a wrong way.

I've done telekinetic stuff in my dreams for years and made a lot of progress, too. But they're only dreams. In real life, I used to put "whammies" on opposite billiard players balls and win in spite of not being a very good player myself. I'd look at the ball and in my mind guide it a certain way as the opponent prepared to make his shot. It would go exactly as I visioned it. That wasn't very fair, though! Haven't done it in years because I pretty much stopped going to bars.

So, anyway, I do not try to induce OBE's anymore, they just happen. In my last one I was checking out a bunch of very nice homes, looking for certain person I know. Went inside some, but felt guilty and left quickly. Met some other folks instead, and started questioning them about spirits and ufo's, what they really are etc. The person I was questioning wouldn't always answer. He kept changing his facial appearance and instead of answering, I'd see emptiness behind his eyes and weird things like that.

In astral realm, I love to estimate and study things such as my flying speed, hovering, wind, water flow, etc. In real life I'm generally nearly always right or very close in my estimates. It's great! As a child I used to find things by throwing a pencil in the air and searching for the missing item by following the direction it pointed. Found a lot of things that way, even outdoors. I could do dowsing too, and used to tell my classmates how many/what sex their future kids would be. That was cute, done with needle and thread hanging over the back of their hand. I've no idea where I got that one from. Or of the outcome!

[nerohedfrs]

Thats my point though - you people with natural talent have atleast HAD an OBE. That is rare. I haven't. But it seems the artsy creative people who can let their spirit flow and produce creative things are more able to OBE even if they never intended it. They have it happen by accident.
Thats my point.
Alchemy is creating something from nothing. Those of you who are able to create something from your own mind are closer to the truth than you know.

So you're saying that if I make myself create more art it might help me project? That's not something I've thought about. When I was young I used to paint- I was very good at imitating Leonardo and Goya, for example. But if you gave me an artistic instrument all I drew was the same thing- that lady you see in my avatar. (I made her in draw, and let me tell you, drawing with a mouse is not my thing). I would draw her flying, floating, always in the woods and sometimes with a baby. But other than her I just have no flow. At some point I decided only to do artwork when someone gives me a project and tells me what they want. About the only time when I've gone on an artistic 'rampage' was when at a certain age I painted a mural in my room (woods all around it), and later in life, after my son was born, I painted a mural in his room, and it changes as he grows- It's been the woods with jungle animals (baby), it's been the city with ninja turtles and later spiderman, and now it's the city of Naboo with the rest of the Stars Wars crew. He has a poster of Aniken/Darth on one of his walls that gives me the creeps.
So anyway, when my son was born I let loose with creativity, doing the walls, and even creating fairy gardens (that one is for me. ). But that has been the most creative that I've been.
So maybe I have to paint and draw more, and see if there are positive side-effects.

[AbeldeldepBug]

Yes. I think there is a relationship.

I find that people who are more creative tend to be able to create more out of reality. Also in the astral realm as well.

Myself being more of a destructive personality, I tend to tear things down, stir the pot so to speak. I like to bring to the surface issues that need to be dealt with.

But creating.. yes I believe so.

Paint, play music, and remember exactly how it feels, looks tastes etc. FEEL and IMPRESS that upon your consciousness. The more you consciously try and burn those into your spirit, I think the more often you will recall those impressions in your dream reality/obe world.

Its just a theory I'm working on. Why I don't know. But if my inner nature it telling me to learn how to paint, it has to be for a reason. My only wish in this world left really (other than food water shelter and family) is to become a better person and at peace with "God" or to be closer to him.

The answers subtly have come to me in the urge to be creative. I think through the process of creation through love, you learn life lessons and that translates into your subconsious?

Maybe for me to finally "exit" and get out I need to develop that area of my life. Stop tearing down and start creating?

[AbeldeldepBug]

Sola Neid I'd be interested in hearing more about some of your experiences. I find them very interesting.

[exchpaypaleg]

Lonecrow,

I still think that you don't have to be a predominantly visual type to go OB. Have you tried mind entrainment technology? An aural approach might be more for you, since you're a musician. Even listening to the ringing in your ear, presuming there is a ringing in your ear, is reputed to be a way out. And affirmations should suit you too.

I guess you practise energy raising and body loosening? (You give the impression you've tried the lot) These aren't necessarily visual practices.

In any case, you've neglected to mention how long you've been trying. Has it been that long really? You do have a number of impediments to relaxation going against you, so maybe it's going to take you a little longer. Perhaps you will find encouragement in other benefits you might be obtaining along the way.

If you're adamant that it's enhanced visualisation you require, (and this could be your intuition at work) you can practice visualisation without becoming an artist. Just pick something simple to start, like a basic flower. Stare at it and see how long you can retain its image in your mind's eye. Then increase the time you hold an image and eventually the complexity of the images.

Maybe a technical form of drawing would suit you better if drawing is what you're really drawn to. But, even making short films and using a computer programme to edit them (thus exposing you to the same footage continually) could be a way to greater visualistion skills.

Do you have good dream recall or even lucid dreams? These offer other avenues for the OBE.

Linda, I don't mind you asking at all. I live in Kiama with my husband, two kids and pooch. You're very welcome to pm me if you wish.

[MgpojuWy]

I project, lucid dream. I am not all that creative or artistic. I play guitar a liitle, very little, and I had to work damn hard to do it.

But if ou want to talk about thinking out side the box. That is something I am really good at. I really don't think artistic talent has much to with it. I would think that more abstarct thinking would. But abstract thought does not equate to talent or artistic ability. Just to be able to see things out side of the norm.

[BuyCheapest]

Beekeper that is some good advice, thanks.

I can bring the ringing up in my ears almost at will. Yes I'm clairaudiant (pardon the spelling too lazy to check) and can hear people talking and background chatter when I'm meditating. Its hard to block out.

I do have something impeding my relaxation yes it seems. I do seem very relaxed in the morning when I wake up etc. So I've been doing my experiments in the mornings now and getting more success. Its just the bussle of other family members getting up early making noise that is the real problem. I have great earplugs too, but its almost like clockwork the times in the morning when I'm making progress there is always a garbage truck coming by, or recycle truck or something going on.

Now I know there are other visualization techniques. I've tried them too, but maybe not as much as I should.

I've been trying for about a year and a half.

I've done some energy work, and loosening.

It seems my main problem is staying awake. No matter what, as soon as I start reaching that trance like state I fall asleep, or in and out. I can't get relaxed enough, even though it feels like I am relaxed, when I wake up in the morning I notice that I am MUCH more relaxed then, than in the evening when I am trying to relax.

This is why with back problems, restless leg jerks and other issues are hindering me doing daytime or other non sleep time related meditation. That is why I had been asking about medication being a solution to help you relax.

The closest I've been to an OBE was the time I was heavily medicated and woke up in the night. I'd hate to have to rely on that type of thing, but this is my quest in life. I have to keep trying. I never give up on a goal.

[AbeldeldepBug]

I project, lucid dream. I am not all that creative or artistic. I play guitar a liitle, very little, and I had to work damn hard to do it.

But if ou want to talk about thinking out side the box. That is something I am really good at. I really don't think artistic talent has much to with it. I would think that more abstarct thinking would. But abstract thought does not equate to talent or artistic ability. Just to be able to see things out side of the norm.

I think any of us here qualify as that. We all see things outside the norm if we are into astral dynamics etc.

[AbeldeldepBug]

Spectral Dragon

Thanks. My point does continue to seem to point in the direction though that some people with some natural creative and philisophical talent, tend to be more oriented to have OBE type experiences. If you at any point in your life were able to draw well, it is a natural talent, or ability. Sure you can get out of practice but the talent is still there.

Myself my talen was naturally athletic. I was good at every sport I played, anything that needed coordination, including music. But now that I'm out of practice and out of shape, I am not as good. But I am able to pick things up again and get back into them if I practice and the natural ability is still inherent.

In music after all the years of playing I've noticed 2 types of people, well actually 3. One type is the type that is able to pick things up by ear, but have a hard time with the technical aspects, and don't read music well. But are creative and expressive.

Another type (myself) has natural coordination, can pick it up, and read notes, be technical, but not very good improvisational or picking things up by ear. I can follow notes on a page, but I can't break out into a solo etc.

The last time is the perfected blend of both technical excellence and spontinaity. These people are virtuosos at their trade.

Though I am creative in mind, I don't have the process in between to translate that creativity instantly to the hands. Do you get what I mean? Its like a missing gap somewhere in the brain that can't process the information.

Some people can take what they visualize and articulate it instantly in music or drawing. OR OBE. I can visualise stuff but can't get it into being, or bring it into reality.

Writing maybe yes, in story form, but not in music or anything else really.

That is the missing key part of the brain I am missing and wondering if that particular process that some people are able to tap into, are what makes OBE's a lot easier.

[Ambrakam]

LoneCrow, I understand the exasperation you must feel and like all of us who have obe's want to help as much as possible. I am no expert at all and although I remember periods of sleep paralysis as a child and some other odd things it was only after a nde that loosened my etheric body that I was able to project.( not recommended method) . Like Beekeeper mentioned, do you Lucid dream, because that is an easy way to at least get you out there. Maybe also try going as deep into trance as you can with the plan not to project, just to experience different sensations.Maybe the lack of pressure may help.I know I have said it before but I strongly feel the lunar cycle will be key, and although it is really hard work, mind training and the ability to be able to be blank is so important. Well for me anyway.