[AXGreg]

Hi everybody! I'm new here and sort of new to OBEs too. Let me describe briefly my experience during a nap today, which is pretty typical of what I've been able to achieve so far.

I felt vibrations shortly aftrer I closed my eyes. In fact, I was surprised because I didn't think I fell asleep yet and it happens from sleep most of the time. Anyway, I rolled out of bed (although the details are fading away already) and got up without much effort. My vision was blurry as usual, so I SCREAMED Clarity Now. That didn't work. I walked downstairs (I think) and opened the front door. And I was like wow it's so nice out here. It looked like there were more trees than in reality. And here as usual everything just faded away. Except today I tried to roll out at least three more times. Maybe successful, but I was blind. One of these times, I felt my way to the window, felt that the glass was solid and opened it. I was considering leaping out of it, but I got scared that I might actually be awake and when I reached over to my bed, I couldn't find my body in there.

So I guess my quesiton is could all this be just a dream. I mean I've read books on OBEs, maybe my brain is just simulating what is supposed to happen? If it's not a dream, then why can't I see? Did anyone have similar experiences?

I hope to hear from you soon!

Lena

[rushiddink]

Originally Posted by Ceriel Nosforit And you don't need to open windows or doors when projecting. You can do what ghosts do and walk right through everything.

That's been true for me about 95% of the time, but every so often things are at least as solid and vivid as the physical world. Sometimes it's even more vivid than waking life and when I get up things look dream-like in comparison.

Coincidentally someone posted an OBE on my site about a solid-feeling OBE on my site today:
http://www.saltcube.com/out-of-body/cha ... jsp?t=3916

The first time I had a really solid one it surprised me quite a lot to be able to knock on the walls and everything. The level of solidity in OBEs can be freaky. I've experienced quite a few solid OBEs. They usually make me question if I am actually awake. Examples being attempting to push myself through a window to go flying and then feeling whats seems to be very real glass against my head. I consider opening a window and jumping out but then worry what if I am actually awake and throw myself through the window. Other occassions there are family members in the room with me as I unsuccessfully attempt to push through a window, I then worry what they will think of my behaviour if I am actually not OBE.

[AXGreg]

Hi Matt,

Thank you for advice. I will try opening my eyes with my hands next time. Sounds like a good idea.

Lena

[dexterljohnthefinanceguy]

And you don't need to open windows or doors when projecting. You can do what ghosts do and walk right through everything.

That's been true for me about 95% of the time, but every so often things are at least as solid and vivid as the physical world. Sometimes it's even more vivid than waking life and when I get up things look dream-like in comparison.

Coincidentally someone posted an OBE on my site about a solid-feeling OBE on my site today:
http://www.saltcube.com/out-of-body/cha ... jsp?t=3916

The first time I had a really solid one it surprised me quite a lot to be able to knock on the walls and everything. The level of solidity in OBEs can be freaky.

[Bobobsdo]

Almost certainly an OBE.
If you ever find yourself blind during a projection, you can usually regain your vision through walking in some direction and calming down. From what I can tell, that's all there is to it; it's really simple.

And you don't need to open windows or doors when projecting. You can do what ghosts do and walk right through everything. It is however a bit uncomfortable to do that.

[trowUrillioth]

Have you considered that these are all dreams??

[dexterljohnthefinanceguy]

Have you considered that these are all dreams??

Dreams and OBEs are when a person focuses into a nonphysical environment to the point that they are immersed in it. Dreams are OBEs but the dreamer isn't aware that they're dreaming. If in a dream they recall they are dreaming and recall that their physical body is in bed then it's a lucid dream/OBE.

[trowUrillioth]

Thank you for clarifying your position Matt. Cool.

Does everyone agree with this assessment?

So Matt, you're saying you agree that nothing is actually leaving the physical body in any case- that OBEs are lucid dreams are dreams in which you are aware that you are dreaming?

[Irravepem]

i disagree. for me there is one main diffrence between OBEs and lucid dreams and i use it as the only method to know if im actually having an OBE or just a dream:

Before i leave the body there are exit sensetaions. exit sensations are always the same for me and are a reliable way of knowing if im out. if i dont experience exit sensations then its a dream.

[desmond001]

Originally Posted by obe1990 Have you considered that these are all dreams??

Dreams and OBEs are when a person focuses into a nonphysical environment to the point that they are immersed in it. Dreams are OBEs but the dreamer isn't aware that they're dreaming. If in a dream they recall they are dreaming and recall that their physical body is in bed then it's a lucid dream/OBE. Which is why I would ask: Do you consider that technically OB and Astral Projection (that is, directly into the astral without leaving your body) to be the same thing? Because I would classify it as an Astral Projection, for the sole reason that you could open doors (interact with your environment), something that is usually not done in an RTZ OB. (Which is why you can go through walls, etc.) So I vote for inwards astral projection, not RTZ OB.
I know, just being nit-picky.

[dexterljohnthefinanceguy]

Which is why I would ask: Do you consider that technically OB and Astral Projection (that is, directly into the astral without leaving your body) to be the same thing? Because I would classify it as an Astral Projection, for the sole reason that you could open doors (interact with your environment), something that is usually not done in an RTZ OB. (Which is why you can go through walls, etc.) So I vote for inwards astral projection, not RTZ OB.
I know, just being nit-picky.

Thank you for clarifying your position Matt. Cool.

Does everyone agree with this assessment?

So Matt, you're saying you agree that nothing is actually leaving the physical body in any case- that OBEs are lucid dreams are dreams in which you are aware that you are dreaming?

I'm saying that in a dream you are leaving your body.

Imagine that person A flies to France and ends up in Paris. Person B takes a boat ride across the ocean and ends up in a French coastal town.

These people have different experiences both in how they got to where they went and where they ended up. So when they return to the US they tell their friends about the different things they did. They might talk to each other than conclude that they were in completely different parts of the world.

But if person C take a plane ride to Paris and then drives to the coastal town, then he goes back to the US and takes a boat ride to the coastal town and drives to Paris, he will see that the two experiences person A and person B had are actually the same thing.

In both cases they were in France. It didn't matter how they got their (plane or boat) and it didn't matter where their initial landing point was. Once they were in France they could go anywhere in France.

With dreams and OBES, things like entering a dream, phasing, separating from the body and so forth are all just ways to focus into the nonphysical. They are equivalent to taking a plane or boat or whatever to some destination.

Once you are focused into a nonphysical area, you can then move around and refocus in it however you want (with certain limits). That's equivalent to driving to or from Paris or the coastal town.

So a person might use a traditional OBE method and separate from their body into the RTZ. But then they might focus on the thought of a dream they had and tune to the nonphysical area that contains that dream.

Alternatively a person might become lucid in a dream and then teleport to the RTZ.

All of these things are equivalent and interchangable. It doesn't matter how you initially got to the nonphysical, and it doesn't matter where you initially tuned to in the nonphysical, be it the RTZ or a dream area or whatever.

A dream is where you're in a dream environment but are not yet aware that you're dreaming or that your physical body is asleep in bed.

A lucid dream is where you're in a dream environment and you are aware that you're dreaming and that your physical body is asleep in bed.

And OBE is where you first separate from the body into the RTZ

A phasing mental projection is where you consciously focus into mental imagery and phase into the imagery and become immersed in it so that it becomes your environment.

So you can do and OBE and then make it into a lucid dream and you can do a lucid dream and make it into an OBE, but really you haven't changed anything but your own point of focus.

[dexterljohnthefinanceguy]

i disagree. for me there is one main diffrence between OBEs and lucid dreams and i use it as the only method to know if im actually having an OBE or just a dream:

Before i leave the body there are exit sensetaions. exit sensations are always the same for me and are a reliable way of knowing if im out. if i dont experience exit sensations then its a dream.

Exit sensations are not very reliable because it's possible to have an OBE into the RTZ with no exit sensations. You might get up from bed exactly as you normally would and be absolutely sure you're back in the physical until you walk around your house and find a room that isn't supposed to be there. This is called a false awakening and can be very confusing.

I use a timer to alternately wake up and fall asleep in the morning in order to have OBEs. If I put the timer on a short setting, say beeping every two minutes for a half hour, it can put me in a state where I'm hovering very closely between the physical and nonphysical. This makes false awakenings a lot more likely.

It's possible in that state to get into a false awakening loop where you keep 'waking up' into the RTZ and don't know where you are until you go around and check.

The most reliable (not 100%) reality check I know is to look at a digital readout like on a timer or a computer. Almost always in the RTZ there will be something screwy about it. Such as on a computer screen it will be flipped left and right, or the time might look really complex like a jet cockpit.

[trowUrillioth]

Matt, please explain / describe / define the RTZ?

[dexterljohnthefinanceguy]

RTZ is short for "Real Time Zone" which is what Robert Bruce calls the nonphysical areas that are very similar to the physical plane. For instance, when you first separate from your body in an OBE you usually end up tuned to an area that looks like the physical spot your body is in.

This page has information on how Robert Bruce describes it:

http://www.astraldynamics.com/library/? ... etinID=153

I think that "Real Time Zone" is an inaccurate way to describe it because it's not real time. It has energy imprints from both the past and future. There is also not a single zone that is similar to the physical plane, there are many areas that are very much like the physical plane and it depends on things like your mood which one you end up focusing into.

I think "Near Physical Planes" is a more accurate term, but on this site everyone uses RTZ since that's Robert Bruce's terminology.

The RTZ seems to work like this with respect to time: Going forward in time, if a person has been planning to re-arrange their living room and add a red chair in a corner, then when you project to a nonphysical version of the living room you may see a red chair there because there is a strong potential that a red chair will soon appear there in the physical.

Going backward in time, if there used to be a blue chair in the corner for many years and many people observed the chair there, if the chair is removed physically the imprint of the idea of the chair still exists in the RTZ and you may see it there in a projection.

Everyone views things from a slightly different view point and has their own unique perceptual filters. If someone is in a very dark mood, when they project they will probably see a dark version of the RTZ. They might see all the nasty emotions that have been released in that room in some way such as in the form of shadows or noise. Basically they've selected a certain plane that matches their perceptions.

If someone is in a good mood they'll probably view a plane that's brighter and more ordered when they project to the same area.

So, there are many nearly physical planes right next to each other and they all have information going both forward and backward in time. RTZ is an ok way to name those planes but it's a little misleading.

[trowUrillioth]

Thank you for sharing..

[Bobobsdo]

Hehe. I always know when I'm awake, but I don't always know when I'm projecting. Sometimes I use this uncertainty to just guess I'm indeed projecting.

I've thrown myself off a number of buildings and through a number of windows while still not being quite sure. Oddly, very often when I try to throw myself through a window with great speed, the window is almost elastic and throws me back. No satisfying crash or raining glass, just 'bonk'.

[Bobobsdo]

Not brave... I just don't fear dying. When you're brave you're afraid to do something but do it anyway, and that's a virtue.

You could move your nighstand out of the way if you like. Doing that will give you the confidence to try.

[AXGreg]

I've thrown myself off a number of buildings and through a number of windows while still not being quite sure. Wow you are brave! I thought I might be sleep walking or something and when I thought about falling like that on accident and what everyone will think. Lena fell out of the window. I will be considered insane for a while, lol. The first time I couldn't even go through with rolling out of my body because I got freaked out that I will hit my head on the night stand
Perhaps, if I could see better, then it'd be easier to tell, but doing it blind is scary.

Thanks everyone for your replies. My experiences probably are OBEs, but not fully conscious ones if that makes sense. Because they happen from sleep state, it feels like some part of me is still sleeping but it's definitely me and I think almost clearly, but it seems like my actions are more automatic. At any rate, I'm going to be attempting more conscious exits.

Lena

[dexterljohnthefinanceguy]

Yep, I've found the only reliable reality test is to either find something in the room that's not right (like extra doors) or to look at something with a digital display, like a cooking timer or a computer screen.

Digital readouts always look super complex when nonphysical for some reason. Even when light switches work in an OBE, digital displays look all jumbled up.

[dexterljohnthefinanceguy]

The test I use to decide if I'm in an OBE/LD is if I'm both aware that I'm in a nonphysical environment and that my physical body is asleep in bed. It sounds like you knew both those things, so I'd say it was an OBE.

Here are two things you can try for getting sight back in OBEs:

http://saltcube.com/out-of-body/chat-fo ... at-is-here
http://saltcube.com/out-of-body/chat-fo ... ?t=eye-pry