[voodoosdv]

Hello Natalie.

It's a great pleasure to read your posts. I admire how rigourously and carefully you have experimented, and how much you obviously want to get to the facts and truths of the matter.

Here are some enjoyable quotes..

...rigourously controlled experiments...

An Out of Body Experience (OBE) doesn't the same than a Lucid Dream. You can Astral Project outside your body, beginning a typical OBE or APing.

When APing, I've proven with a high degree of certitude I cannot exert mechanical action (described as hand-to-object influence) on a physical object.

...review carefully and experimentally like myself your experiences... to test feasibility of your claims.

I have some questions for you. In reviewing other OBE journals, as well as my experiences and journals, I am learning it is possible many people who think that they are going out-of-body are dreaming.

I had two experiences last week I thought were projections, but it was shown to me by someone good at OBE that they were dreams/hallucinations, that only seemed like OBEs!

My question Natalie, how do you project into a true OBE, and not into a lucid dream??? It seems very easy to project and THINK you are OBE, but you are actually LD.

How do you project with certitude into a true OBE, rather than an LD???
___

My next question Natalie, how do you stay in the OBE, and not let it fall into a LD pool?? With your experiment it seems you projectdd out-of-body (OBE), but then you changed your mind in some way where you fell into a lucid dream pool.

But it seems there was no major change in the environment, except that you could touch things when it turned into an LD!! Is that they only way to tell?? How do you tell if you are LD or OBE, when they can seem so similar??

How do you maintain yourself in the true OBE, and how do you prevent yourself from falling into a lucid dream pool, so that you can have extended true OBEs, no falling into LD pool???

___

Last question: Have you went OBE and verified something, like put a card out and went and saw the card, or saw what someone was doing in physical life and talked to them and prove what you saw was true, or any other verified experiment???

[Shemker394]

Hi edubz, Matt, knightlight..!
My sincere advice is manage your mind in a more strictly way (avoiding any imagery arising from your desires), because of sure you're in a mistake. At APing we cannot interact with physical matter as easy as when we are inside our physical body.

In rigourously controlled experiments, with camcorder register, and a pair of chronometers, I've concluded that (when APing) physical matter doesn't able of to be controlled, except at Lucid Dream status projection. The last status is done when manage my astral sensorial perception in order to perceive myself (my entire body, as a matter of fact) as sensorial perceptible as in physical status and opening a port.

My experiment was as follows:

1 - I turn ON a camcorder SONY (Model, he he, I don't remember now... apologies..!)

2 - Under adequate light conditions, I focus camcorder onto a port of a room.

3 - I left 2 chronometers synchronized. The two started at the same time and inside line view, the first from camcorder, the second from the viewpoint of anyperson how moves the port.

4 - I left port semi-closed (semi-open). That's say about 45 degrees.

5 - I go to my bed and proceed in order to APing.

6 - I go to selected experiment room when outside of my body.

7 - I try to open the port putting extreme attention about not to fall in a Lucid Dream pool. I take note about my unability of to change port position.

8 - I manage my mind in order to create a replica of mine as I am when at physical body. By this way, I can see an arm, a forearm and a hand.

9 - I exert action onto port moving it, SUCCESFULLY..!! , and assuring displacement is physically detectable. That's say I successfully move the port, at least 30 degrees (not 0.001 degrees, a visually undetectable change in angular position of port), during (from initial time of moving to last time of moving) 3 seconds (not during 0.01 second, an interval below 1/30 second of camcorder frame shot).

10 - Back in my physical body, I shut OFF camcorder. Rewind tape and Play tape.

11 - Observations: During the entire experiment time interval, port doesn't change its position.

12 - Conclusion: I've of sure falled on a LD pool when I manage my mind in order to create a replica of mine. Only, in such condition, I was successfull at the endeavour of to move a physical object. It succeed but only in my mind. Anyway, there are the probability of some experimental conception failure. My sincere suggestion is you try to follow similar path under rigorous conditions stated here and look in order to register what happens.
Good luck..!!

My best regards...
Sincerely,
Natalia Parker

Hi, I think you mis understood me. What I said I open the door and it was solid, I didnt mean it moved in our 3-d reality. What I meant was, while OBE I had to open the door with my hands to get out of my room.

[PZXjoe]

Hi Natalia,
I agree that it's very unlikely to be able to move a physical object from within an OBE. What I'm saying is that some planes you can project to appear just as solid as the physical version. I wasn't actually in the physical when I OBEd because there were extra rooms in that plane's copy of my apartment.

Hi Matt..!
I agree with you...
Anyway, I think about the capability of to move a physical object from RTZ when APing as about an energy problem. The main problem is to detach us from the belief system related to need of hands, and perceive that since we are only organized energy, and similar concern is about physical object target of our intent, then conclusively there is a problem of energy interating with energy.

I advice and encourage you to think about this concept, Matt. A clue would be the remote awareness concept commonly known as tactile imaging... but putting apart our mind of any hands geometrical concern. I think this is the right way.

My best regards...
Sincerely,
Natalia Parker

[Shemker394]

Originally Posted by edubz Hi, I think you mis understood me. What I said I open the door and it was solid, I didnt mean it moved in our 3-d reality. What I meant was, while OBE I had to open the door with my hands to get out of my room.

Hi ebudz..!

An Out of Body Experience (OBE) doesn't the same than a Lucid Dream. You can Astral Project outside your body, beginning a typical OBE or APing.

When APing, I've proven with a high degree of certitude I cannot exert mechanical action (described as hand-to-object influence) on a physical object.

If when APing, I lost control of my mind giving freedom to my visual imagination I'll fall in a Lucid Dreaming pool where anything I shall imagine is possible. Specially: hand-to-"apparently physical objects" action. That's say at a Lucid Dream I've all the capabilities when I'm APing plus the capabilities I've when I'm at physical plane.

I think edubz, IMHO, and if any moderator or site administrator wants to witness about contrary, PLEASE post reliable opinion, you has some conceptual uncertainties. I advice, you review carefully and experimentally like myself your experiences. Of sure, you or one of your friends has a camcorder for you as you can ask for your help... and then proceed like myself in order to test feasibility of your claims.

My sincere apologies if I'm wrong...

My best regards...
Natalia Parker
well after having a discusion with others about this "real time zone" I would think it should not be called real time zone, I look up etheric plane and found some helpful info.


http://www.wisdomsdoor.com/db/hdb-12.shtml

Now, just like on the physical plane, on the etheric plane you will possess a body. This body is very similar to your physical one, and it will feel and react nearly the same. We call this body your dream-body (or in out of body terms it is also known as your Mach-1 nonphysical body). This dream-body is very dense and very physical like -- again to minimize disorientation going from one plane to another and from one body form to another. You can levitate in this body, and travel more quickly than you do in your physical body. Objects and walls will appear solid while you are in this body.



ok, so now I think I understand. Because before I was able to do it, I figured I could walk through walls and stuff. I guess this is NOT that case.

[Nundduedola]

with my hand I open the door.

so your saying that you can pass through walls and doors?

I was under the impression that these things were solid. If not, how could they not be there?

As far as I can tell, an OBE can be anywhere from completely ephemeral and gas-like, to being just as solid and sometimes more vivid than the physical version. During a few of them, I could actually knock on walls and hear it and feel the texture of the paint. Yet I knew I was in an OBE because there were extra rooms in my apartment.

My eyesight was clearer in the OBE than in the physical and when I woke up everything looked dream-like in comparison. I think super solid OBEs are rare but they definitely do happen

[PZXjoe]

Now, just like on the physical plane, on the etheric plane you will possess a body. This body is very similar to your physical one, and it will feel and react nearly the same. We call this body your dream-body (or in out of body terms it is also known as your Mach-1 nonphysical body). This dream-body is very dense and very physical like -- again to minimize disorientation going from one plane to another and from one body form to another. You can levitate in this body, and travel more quickly than you do in your physical body. Objects and walls will appear solid while you are in this body. Well, edubz, neither me nor you are guilty of our misundertanding... Simply we have our own viewpoints that only can be matched through critical testing and rigorous experimentation.
I've done my own observations reaching to conclusions valid for mine.
Your viewpoints, about I haven't doubts related to its validity (since they were constructed around a conceptual reference frame different from mine and, therefore, unobjectable) are certainly valid for you.
Both me and you, establish them as center of our cosmo-vision, and, since they of sure has supplied some enlightment to us... then they are useful. No doubt about it.
About your referred website:
http://www.wisdomsdoor.com/db/hdb-12.shtml
I've found very interesting the concept about crystal life. That's a concept about I've done some independent meditation work. About such an assertion, consider following link:
http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewto ... tone+brick
My best regards and wishes...
Sincerely,
Natalia Parker

[Shemker394]

well, today I had about 3 multiple OBE's.


I was trying to OBe this morning and got tired. Decided to just go to sleep.

Anyways, as I did I had the familiar things that ALWAYS seems to happen right before I OBE.

I always hear someone say something to me, and it makes me aware of my OBE. This time it was my friend telling me he got jumped. Its strange but thats how it happens.

Then I felt the vibrations and levitation, and just rolled out of bed.

first OBE, ended up in my room. Still could NOT go TROUGH walls. Had to open the door. So, I walk around my house. I saw my grandmother who was around the house. Then, I started to hear astral noise, and found myself BACK in my bed.

Now the weird this is, my eyes were CLOSED at the time. Yet I could see through my eye lids. Then I start feeling the vibrations and levitation AGAIN, and I start having another OBE.

this time I get exited into some kind of club, where there was a fight and cops came. Had a conversation with some of these club people. Then, found my self back in my bed. laying there again, I start having the same feelings, and yet another OBE.

This time I get out and end up in the city (new york) I think, only it was dark out. I fly around and end up getting in some kind of argument with someone else. So we started to fight, but our punches didn't do anything. We would swing and it would only come as a tap on the shoulder type punch. anyways we both kind of laughed it off and went our own way.


then I heard a car alarm go off outside, which brought me back to my bed. This time for good.

So, has anyone had multiple OBE's like this?

Also, does anyone find it hard to stay in the RTZ? It seems like the longer I stay there, things become fuzzy.

[Shemker394]

first OBE, ended up in my room. Still could NOT go TROUGH walls. Had to open the door. So, I walk around my house. I saw my grandmother who was around the house. Then, I started to hear astral noise, and found myself BACK in my bed.

A briefly inquiry, please, how do you to open the door..? You cannot interact with physical world unless you had been in a Lucid Dream (LD)..! And a LD doesn´t an OBE.
My best regards...
Sincerely,
Natalia Parker
with my hand I open the door.

so your saying that you can pass through walls and doors?

I was under the impression that these things were solid. If not, how could they not be there?

[PZXjoe]

Hi, I think you mis understood me. What I said I open the door and it was solid, I didnt mean it moved in our 3-d reality. What I meant was, while OBE I had to open the door with my hands to get out of my room.

Hi ebudz..!

An Out of Body Experience (OBE) doesn't the same than a Lucid Dream. You can Astral Project outside your body, beginning a typical OBE or APing.

When APing, I've proven with a high degree of certitude I cannot exert mechanical action (described as hand-to-object influence) on a physical object.

If when APing, I lost control of my mind giving freedom to my visual imagination I'll fall in a Lucid Dreaming pool where anything I shall imagine is possible. Specially: hand-to-"apparently physical objects" action. That's say at a Lucid Dream I've all the capabilities when I'm APing plus the capabilities I've when I'm at physical plane.

I think edubz, IMHO, and if any moderator or site administrator wants to witness about contrary, PLEASE post reliable opinion, you has some conceptual uncertainties. I advice, you review carefully and experimentally like myself your experiences. Of sure, you or one of your friends has a camcorder for you as you can ask for your help... and then proceed like myself in order to test feasibility of your claims.

My sincere apologies if I'm wrong...

My best regards...
Natalia Parker

[PZXjoe]

first OBE, ended up in my room. Still could NOT go TROUGH walls. Had to open the door. So, I walk around my house. I saw my grandmother who was around the house. Then, I started to hear astral noise, and found myself BACK in my bed. A briefly inquiry, please, how do you to open the door..? You cannot interact with physical world unless you had been in a Lucid Dream (LD)..! And a LD doesn´t an OBE.
My best regards...
Sincerely,
Natalia Parker

[Nundduedola]

Hi Natalia,
I agree that it's very unlikely to be able to move a physical object from within an OBE. What I'm saying is that some planes you can project to appear just as solid as the physical version. I wasn't actually in the physical when I OBEd because there were extra rooms in that plane's copy of my apartment.

[PZXjoe]

Hi edubz, Matt, knightlight..!
My sincere advice is manage your mind in a more strictly way (avoiding any imagery arising from your desires), because of sure you're in a mistake. At APing we cannot interact with physical matter as easy as when we are inside our physical body.

In rigourously controlled experiments, with camcorder register, and a pair of chronometers, I've concluded that (when APing) physical matter doesn't able of to be controlled, except at Lucid Dream status projection. The last status is done when manage my astral sensorial perception in order to perceive myself (my entire body, as a matter of fact) as sensorial perceptible as in physical status and opening a port.

My experiment was as follows:

1 - I turn ON a camcorder SONY (Model, he he, I don't remember now... apologies..!)

2 - Under adequate light conditions, I focus camcorder onto a port of a room.

3 - I left 2 chronometers synchronized. The two started at the same time and inside line view, the first from camcorder, the second from the viewpoint of anyperson how moves the port.

4 - I left port semi-closed (semi-open). That's say about 45 degrees.

5 - I go to my bed and proceed in order to APing.

6 - I go to selected experiment room when outside of my body.

7 - I try to open the port putting extreme attention about not to fall in a Lucid Dream pool. I take note about my unability of to change port position.

8 - I manage my mind in order to create a replica of mine as I am when at physical body. By this way, I can see an arm, a forearm and a hand.

9 - I exert action onto port moving it, SUCCESFULLY..!! , and assuring displacement is physically detectable. That's say I successfully move the port, at least 30 degrees (not 0.001 degrees, a visually undetectable change in angular position of port), during (from initial time of moving to last time of moving) 3 seconds (not during 0.01 second, an interval below 1/30 second of camcorder frame shot).

10 - Back in my physical body, I shut OFF camcorder. Rewind tape and Play tape.

11 - Observations: During the entire experiment time interval, port doesn't change its position.

12 - Conclusion: I've of sure falled on a LD pool when I manage my mind in order to create a replica of mine. Only, in such condition, I was successfull at the endeavour of to move a physical object. It succeed but only in my mind. Anyway, there are the probability of some experimental conception failure. My sincere suggestion is you try to follow similar path under rigorous conditions stated here and look in order to register what happens.
Good luck..!!

My best regards...
Sincerely,
Natalia Parker

[shihoodiacarf]

I have had many occasions where I have gone OBE and headed straight for a window or door and ran right into it. Most times I will laugh at myself and then face away from the door and back into it (which usually allows me through) or simply give it another try but take it slower. Most times I can get through in the second try.