[maxfieldj1]

In no particular order.
men foil The referees seem to be going back 30 years, I thought we had seen the end of the attack being accepted as the first movement forward with any part of the body. Lots of attacks starting with complete absence of blades being given by referees. Favoring the Italian's?
Women foil Much less off target more like traditional fencing.
Men Sabre Women sabre No idea what is happening and why hits are given either way. How about changing to epee rules either the only the first hit only scores or double timing like epee.
Epee Men won with some great foil against a traditional Scandinavian epee fencer.
Women Epee No thoughts.

refereeing even with video replay referees seem unable to apply the rules of fencing. some very good refereeing sabre ref from Somalia ? was excellent very rarely using the video.

D.T. When things go wrong the sign of a good D.T. is how the problem is dealt with. The head of D.T. should have absolute power to give any interference from individual with no regulatory position a new pink card (immediate removal from the fencing hall for one hour)
Discuss.

[Nutpoode]

I was encouraged, since I found it more absorbing than I'd expected. Japan and South Korea seem to have become top fencing nations that I hadn't noticed before. It is as clear as ever that Brit fencers too often don't stand up straight enough, and don't hold their rear legs properly. For that reason if for no other they won't get to the top. Just imagine Japanese fencers on their way up, giving the excuse that they don't feel obliged to master the finer, or final, details of technique, and saying instead "Oh, I just do fencing for fun", as you'd expect at various levels from Brits! The Japanese, and the Koreans too, judging by my old karate master, both of whom have a tradition of getting something right for its own sake, reap the benefits. Brit fencers last week didn't move as crisply, and so they limited their range of movements. It's not just legs and trunk, it's also bladework. Young Italian fencers can copy their seniors; the east Asians could simply follow the basic technique properly, and watch the top foreigners. But Brits can get to the top in the UK by following the top Brits with imperfect technique and perfecting their own only to the extent that they can be bothered.

Lawrence Halstead, to pluck one out of the air simply because I can remember his name, last seen by me fencing as a nine-year-old, is clearly stuffed full of talent (and experience) but looks like he's had to make up fencing all on his own, deprived of the benefit of hundreds of years of fencing culture. True, he does know plenty of good blade movements and does them fast but he could have been better if people had told him the technique he was winning big UK competitions with still wasn't good enough. Maybe it doesn't matter; but there's no point in discussing what British fencing needs to do to improve: don't send anyone abroad unless they can convince a genuinely skilled engineer that the physics of their bodily movements is more efficient than conventional technique would be, or they can beat the top foreigners whatever their own style, or they're doing it halfway right... and they've trained for over 250 hours over the previous 25 weeks not including competitions. Job done, and no extra expense, so long as the fencers coach each other a lot and it's soundly overseen. Don't say it can't be done because it can. Other countries don need self coaching if they can offer good ratios, but without a perfectionist attitude from coaches the money is useless.

One thing I did notice was how closely that big young left-hander Davis resembled Smirnov. If he held his trunk a little more upright, and got the bladework a tiny bit crisper as he might over time, it would be quite uncanny.

For some reason I found the épée, particularly women's, more entertaining too. I wouldn't always have expected performances in the past to interest non-fencers or even non-épéeists.

I'm afraid I found the favouring of foil attacks with absence of blade, just as bad as ever, though I have skipped a decade or two. However the spectacle was great. It took me three days to notice the spools had vanished!

Wish I’d seen the épée won with foil technique! Who’d a thunk?

[desmond001]

What the Olympics tells us about the state of world fencing

For me, the biggest thing was that France was struggling, but French-trained fencers (Abouelkassim, Fernandez, Ali, Samandi, both the Besbes girls, apparently the Koreans too) were doing rather well.

Similarly the smaller Eastern European countries picked up few medals outside of sabre, but then you look at all the fencers who have coaches from those nations (Limardo, Ota, Piasecki, several Americans, obviously Kruse, Halsted and Davis too).

The message seems to be that all of these coaching schools are still as strong as the Italians', it's just whether they find themselves in an administrative system/economic situation which is conducive to producing good fencers.

We should look at the countries which run on a similar economic model to us in terms of taxation, wealth, state vs corporate vs private investment in sport and sport administration and then of those countries, look at which ones are good at fencing and find out who's coaching them.

[XKAgustin]

Overall, like the way things are going.

Foil (both men's and women's) - still ugly and squirmy, but getting to be a lot less static and disjointed, and a lot more tactically sophisticated. Great to see the South East Asians doing well, might sweep out a few cobwebs.

Sabre (men's and women's) - at last makes sense to somebody beside the people directly involved. More actual fencing - great to watch, easy to follow. Love it!

Men's epee - enjoyed it, a good variety of competing styles, enough action to keep things interesting...

Women's epee - dull, dull, dull - the game rewards inaction! Somebody on another forum suggested that priority in the extra minute should reverse every time there is a double...

[UvgpXK0J]

For me, the biggest thing was that France was struggling, but French-trained fencers (Abouelkassim, Fernandez, Ali, Samandi, both the Besbes girls, apparently the Koreans too) were doing rather well.

Like I said on another thread, the French aren't struggling. They just had one off competition, which lacked at least one, if not two, events where they would've expected to be in with a shout of the medals. You can't say the whole system is falling down just on one tournament.

[Bejemoelemymn]

Men Sabre Women sabre No idea what is happening and why hits are given either way. How about changing to epee rules either the only the first hit only scores or double timing like epee.

Lol.

If it ain't broke... (and trust us, it's not)

One thing it does lack a bit though as a spectacle is the drama of the final few seconds counting down, which is usually the only bit worth watching in foil/epee. Here's a radical idea. How about we take the time down to one minute or 90 seconds for sabre, with a break at either 8 points or halfway on the clock?

[espenijij]

We should look at the countries which run on a similar economic model to us in terms of taxation, wealth, state vs corporate vs private investment in sport and sport administration and then of those countries, look at which ones are good at fencing and find out who's coaching them.

Field of one I suspect. Spain ?

[ditpiler]

Europe's traditional dominance shaken in London

a very good article at...
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/fencing-eur...2146--spt.html

[ChyFDjfed]

Men Sabre Women sabre No idea what is happening and why hits are given either way. How about changing to epee rules either the only the first hit only scores or double timing like epee.
Discuss.

Or maybe hits only awarded for a single light? It certainly would cut down on the posturing.

[HedoShoodovex]

Lol.

If it ain't broke... (and trust us, it's not)

One thing it does lack a bit though as a spectacle is the drama of the final few seconds counting down, which is usually the only bit worth watching in foil/epee. Here's a radical idea. How about we take the time down to one minute or 90 seconds for sabre, with a break at either 8 points or halfway on the clock?

And yet apparently there have been international bouts that went over 3 minutes. I know that's not the norm but even so...

I forget which ones at the moment. Will have a think. I know it caused ructions at the time.

[Jon Woodgate]

And yet apparently there have been international bouts that went over 3 minutes. I know that's not the norm but even so...

I forget which ones at the moment. Will have a think. I know it caused ructions at the time.

I'd like to see a graph, I bet it can't be that many. I just remember the final few seconds on the clock being the most interesting in F and E, despite all the contraversey that went with it.

[Rategbee]

Men Sabre Women sabre No idea what is happening and why hits are given either way. Woman's Sabre is comprehensible. Generally you can tell what's happening. Even bystanders appeared to appreciate it. The only negatives I've seen is the shouting. Over everything. Why do the ladies do that and the men don't (or at least not in the same way)...

Mens Sabre is flashy and exciting. There's lights going off everywhere... some shouting. But it seems that from the amount of appeals and video replays no one really knows what's going on.

[Imalaycle]

Like I said on another thread, the French aren't struggling. They just had one off competition, which lacked at least one, if not two, events where they would've expected to be in with a shout of the medals. You can't say the whole system is falling down just on one tournament.

I'm not, I have no doubt whatsoever that they will be back, however I think you have to acknowledge (and speaking to French fencers, they do) that their results at senior level over this last olympic cycle have been nothing like as good as usual.

The omission of men's epee from the team undoubtedly cost them a medal. The omission of the women's sabre probably didn't. But regardless, in Beijing or Athens they had a wider pool of experienced fencers who could all pick up medals. Here to be honest the only realistic shouts were the two men's epeeists, LePechoux, the women's foil team and Apithy. Compare that with having both Jeannet brothers, Robieri, Pillet, Lopez, a slightly younger Flessel, LePechoux, Guyart still in good form, Touya, Perrus etc in Beijing and I think you'll agree there's quite a difference in terms of the number of shots on a medal.

With most of the above dominating for so long there hasn't been much space for the new talent to come through, which has had a knock-on effect on results now that the older fencers have retired/got too old. The French have obviously realised this which is why they are blooding their younger fencers in the team events - men's sabre in Legnano was reportedly a young team, as was men's epee, men's foil here at the Olympics didn't include Guyart and Sintes got taken off after one match etc etc.

They'll be back for sure, but there is a clear recognition IMO by the FFE that the mountain of success of the past decade has come at the price of a sudden drop in results which will probably last until Rio now while they bring the new boys and girls through. Hence my comment about the administrative system needing to be right - if you've been the coach of a senior fencer in the team in the past few years then it's probably been right for you, less so if you've been the coach of a fencer trying to break through into the senior squad.

Field of one I suspect. Spain? Germany and France as well IMO. Forget the flashy fencing facilities for a second, just look at the overall economy, the sporting culture (when kids start sport, how many training sessions they do, what their expectations are, how much parents are willing to spend etc). You'll never find a country that's identical, but pick the closest match and poach/train your coaches their, because that gives them the best practical chance of being able to apply their skills in the UK.