[FoetAgerhot46]

Either that or getting my answers from the "Magic Eightball"!

Why wouldn't the magic 8ball be a worthy divination tool, if you were able to focus your energy on an outcome like you do in prayer?
Yes, this is a serious question.

[Hammaduersnes]

Magic eightball says "Ask Again Later"

No, your queston is a good one. If one could focus energy to determine the outcome of the eightball response, would it actually BE divination, or just forcing the outcome that you want?

[chuviskkk]

Exactly.
And in what way is that different than 'serious' prayer, ritual, divination, or other forms of magic?
This is Erisian Mahdjique at it's finest. Understanding the purpose and reasons that these things work, allows one to perform them in anyway, at any moment, and totally suited to the person using the action.
Yes, you can cast a circle with a spork, and it is no different than one cast with a finger, or an athame.
You can pray to the great MegaMechaMonkeyMan, and it's no different than praying to "God".
What differs is the beliefs of the person praying.
Take a step toward understaning things impossible to understand, and you realize it's all madness. But madness is not a bad thing.
It's that madness that allows us to create bionic limbs for amputees. It's that madness that allows us to feed more people an we have food for. It's that madness that allows us to do great works in the name of a being that we have no proof even of their existance.
In nature, the end justifies the means. We are nature, mad with power, and forward into the future we drive 'God's' will. Our madness is our greatest tool.

" "What is this?" mumbled one to the other, "A religion based on The Goddess of Confusion? It is utter madness!"

And with those words, each looked at the other in absolute awe. Omar began to giggle. Mal began to laugh. Omar began to jump up and down. Mal was hooting and hollering to beat all hell. And amid squeals of mirth and with tears on their cheeks, each appointed the other to be high priest of his own madness, and together they declared themselves to be a society of Discordia, for what ever that may turn out to be."

[Allbrunette]

We are all just insane monkeys in pants....

[Amoniustauns]

We are all just insane monkeys in pants....

Amen to that !!.......




THANK YOU ALL for your continued replies here.

I feel as I've been a bit remiss in responding to the later replies here...... I am busy at the moment and assure you that I have read everything that has been written here with avid interest and appreciation.


Hugs you all

Shmishes you too..(well..maybe not the blokes )...lol

[dxpfmP0l]

We are all just insane monkeys in pants....

No spanking, please!

[reaciciomarep]

gee why not?

back to topic.prayer is like focused meditation,execpt the outcome is unknown.at least that is the way i understand it.

[SzefciuCba]

Amen to that !!.......




THANK YOU ALL for your continued replies here.

I feel as I've been a bit remiss in responding to the later replies here...... I am busy at the moment and assure you that I have read everything that has been written here with avid interest and appreciation.


Hugs you all

Shmishes you too..(well..maybe not the blokes )...lol

Well, I believe in prayer and have stood in that belief all my life..Recently I prayed and prayed for my husband to pull through a bout of cancer, I prayed so hard so very hard every day.. every time I closed my eyes I prayed that God would heal him and make him well take away his pain so we could continue our love together.. He was taken home in July .. and I have felt betrayed and hurt and my faith shaken.. But something I am realizing now is that God did indeed answer my prayers.. not the way I thought they should be, he took the pain from his body and then took him from me.. but The answer was not what I wanted to hear, because it wasn't about what was best for me... It was about what was best for him.... I could not heal him Medical doctors could not heal him..his body was ready to go.. it's just that my heart was not ready to let go . It would never be ready to let go.. and sometimes parents do what they have to do even though it may seem hurtful and pointless.. But I know now that his soul is at peace and I know in time I will understand all the questions I have..and all the "why Gods," will be answered. My heart is full of my love for my husband and I know his was for me...and He will remain alive and in my heart for all of time and eternity...

So never believe that God doesn't answer prayer, Just remember that sometimes your heart just is not ready to hear his answers...The answer is not always what we want to hear, but what is best.

[petrarkaponye]

Laila, that is beautiful. Of course, sometimes we are not ready for the answer given.

In my mind, prayer is release, at least in the context you are referring to, Neil. When we pray for healing, or some other specific problem that we can not fix, we are releasing that problem to a higher power. It helps give us a feeling of control instead of a feeling of helplessness. But like Laila, I believe that sometimes we are not ready for the answer that is given. We have a specific solution in mind when we pray, and that is not always the way something needs to be. Prayer is different from magick. Magick is when you focus energy to make a certain outcome, and prayer is asking for it. There is a difference. Prayer is when you are powerless, and magick is when you are powerful.

I know this is cryptic, but you have asked a tough question. I hope this makes some sense to you (even though I know you prefer your answers to be senseless.), and brings some understanding to you.

[Ijkavylo]

gee why not?

back to topic.prayer is like focused meditation,execpt the outcome is unknown.at least that is the way i understand it.

THANK EWE rev.mark.

hugs ewe.

me suspects that the way ewe understand is the perfect way for ewe and this is wonderful. I think to treat it as a mediative process is apt and correct.

Thanks again

[bestbyV]

I feel the same you way you discussed in your OP. People pray to their god because they want something mainly. They want someone cured of a terrible disease or they want to go to heaven. They want to influence their god even though they know they have no power. Their god is all-powerful and knows all and supposedly has already determined everything that is going to happen. Still they hope to influence him.

And I don't understand the mindset that equates disease with punishment from some god. Or a test. That sort of god is just sadistic IMO. Authoritarian personalities tend to believe in authoritarian gods. And they create authoritarian families. And so it is perpetuated.

Thank ewe Maxx for your insight and understanding that I can relate to very well.

it is based on my related understanding akin to yours that I seek out the other reasons here....

I appreciate your words and thank you for your contribution.

Neil

[SashaLionx]

For me prayer is a way to correspond with the Goddess. I don't expect an answer as She works things in Her own ways. A lot of my prayers come from this forum. I ask Her for love and healing to be given. I never demand. As was stated earlier it is an act of humility.

Thank you lone wolf:

Your ability to not expect an answer helps me. Certainly, I agree that demands are not for us to offer to a god. The humility of the act, like you say, is enough.

perhaps it is just the act of praying and not the context of the prayers that are moot here.

Maybe God/Goddess judges it on the sincerity of the person praying...and it is the ' feeling' of the thing that makes contact, not the words..but the sentiment behind them !! (oh cripes !!..me hopes me is not making sense again !!!...noooooooooo !!)

Hugs the Lone Wolf

[lkastonidwedsrer]

Well, I believe in prayer and have stood in that belief all my life..Recently I prayed and prayed for my husband to pull through a bout of cancer, I prayed so hard so very hard every day.. every time I closed my eyes I prayed that God would heal him and make him well take away his pain so we could continue our love together.. He was taken home in July .. and I have felt betrayed and hurt and my faith shaken.. But something I am realizing now is that God did indeed answer my prayers.. not the way I thought they should be, he took the pain from his body and then took him from me.. but The answer was not what I wanted to hear, because it wasn't about what was best for me... It was about what was best for him.... I could not heal him Medical doctors could not heal him..his body was ready to go.. it's just that my heart was not ready to let go . It would never be ready to let go.. and sometimes parents do what they have to do even though it may seem hurtful and pointless.. But I know now that his soul is at peace and I know in time I will understand all the questions I have..and all the "why Gods," will be answered. My heart is full of my love for my husband and I know his was for me...and He will remain alive and in my heart for all of time and eternity...

So never believe that God doesn't answer prayer, Just remember that sometimes your heart just is not ready to hear his answers...The answer is not always what we want to hear, but what is best.

Laila,

first of all...BIG BIG HUGS to ewe !!

I am so touched by this.

I could ask why did God choose to help him by taking him...why not heal him ?...surely a miracle would have been more welcome !!..BUT...despite my saying those things right now....I do not wish you to explain it to me....as I am finding out that for a lot of people there is no hard and fast answer....and that it is not ours to demand an explanation but to accept that what has happened as being right and just.

I celebrate in your love of your husband...and share in your joy that he is at peace and that where ever he is that he is looking in on you and loving you too.
you too must have a sense of great relief and release.

Thank ewe so much laila....extra hugs for you.

[OEMCHEAPSOFTDOWNLOAD]

Laila, that is beautiful. Of course, sometimes we are not ready for the answer given.

In my mind, prayer is release, at least in the context you are referring to, Neil. When we pray for healing, or some other specific problem that we can not fix, we are releasing that problem to a higher power. It helps give us a feeling of control instead of a feeling of helplessness. But like Laila, I believe that sometimes we are not ready for the answer that is given. We have a specific solution in mind when we pray, and that is not always the way something needs to be. Prayer is different from magick. Magick is when you focus energy to make a certain outcome, and prayer is asking for it. There is a difference. Prayer is when you are powerless, and magick is when you are powerful.

I know this is cryptic, but you have asked a tough question. I hope this makes some sense to you (even though I know you prefer your answers to be senseless.), and brings some understanding to you.

Hugs ewe Rev Kelly..Thanks Ewe Rev. Kelly,

I suppose....whether I understand it or not (and I hope I have shown a semblance of some understanding in some of my responses tonight)....that it is more important that the people praying are in fact in clear understanding of the nature of their prayers. This at least I do fathom and accept with clarity.

I now know , with your help and everybody else's here too, that prayers are not just for wishing for a thing...but a sign of release and freedom of revelation to your higher power......and that ...from this sharing...strength is obtained as a reward....be the prayer answered one way or another.
And when is say ' reward ' I suppose I really mean that the act of sharing/praying manifests a feeling of offloading a burden...

I think I am beginning to understand better now..THANK EWE.
Thank you all

[Salliter]

I personally find that prayer allows me to have a personal relationship with God. It affords me comfort, guidance, forgiveness and someone to talk to.

I suppose prayer serves a different purpose for each person, but it may also be influenced by their religious upbringing and education.

You may find this link helpful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer


Prayer is a conversation directly with God, being always with God, having one's soul united with Him and one's mind inseparable. A person becomes one with the angels and unites with them in perpetual praise and longing for God.
-St. Symeon of Thessaloniki



+ Rev. G

[ZwHRoTTn]

I personally find that prayer allows me to have a personal relationship with God. It affords me comfort, guidance, forgiveness and someone to talk to.

I suppose prayer serves a different purpose for each person, but it may also be influenced by their religious upbringing and education.

You may find this link helpful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer


Prayer is a conversation directly with God, being always with God, having one's soul united with Him and one's mind inseparable. A person becomes one with the angels and unites with them in perpetual praise and longing for God.
-St. Symeon of Thessaloniki



+ Rev. G

THANK EWE REV.G.....(Can me hugs you too ?)

I see !..what a wonderful thing to have such a personal relationship with god. I can see how it can give you relief, guidance an comfort etc....and very importantly...as you say..someone to talk to. Don't forget to talk to us here too eh ? I very much appreciate your personal insight into this. This helps me a lot.

THANK YOU so much for the link too

[bumxumer]

Hugs ewe Rev Kelly..Thanks Ewe Rev. Kelly,

I suppose....whether I understand it or not (and I hope I have shown a semblance of some understanding in some of my responses tonight)....that it is more important that the people praying are in fact in clear understanding of the nature of their prayers. This at least I do fathom and accept with clarity.

I now know , with your help and everybody else's here too, that prayers are not just for wishing for a thing...but a sign of release and freedom of revelation to your higher power......and that ...from this sharing...strength is obtained as a reward....be the prayer answered one way or another.
And when is say ' reward ' I suppose I really mean that the act of sharing/praying manifests a feeling of offloading a burden...

I think I am beginning to understand better now..THANK EWE.
Thank you all

I am not sure how you do it, but no matter how cryptic I am, you always seem to get the "meat and potatoes" from it.

[Xxmlqevq]

I am not sure how you do it, but no matter how cryptic I am, you always seem to get the "meat and potatoes" from it.

Uh oh !!...are ewe saying that, *swallows*..GULP !!!....me has made some sense ?...again ?....ewe mean twice in one year ?...and it's only February ?.....Oh My gawwwwwwwwwwwwwwd !!!!!

[Ikrleprl]

Uh oh !!...are ewe saying that, *swallows*..GULP !!!....me has made some sense ?...again ?....ewe mean twice in one year ?...and it's only February ?.....Oh My gawwwwwwwwwwwwwwd !!!!!

Sorry didn't mean to scare you. At least you didn't blow up this time.

[casinobonusfrees]

The surest way to cause a fundie christian to hit the roof is to tell them that prayer is magick. Reaching to an outside source of power asking for spiritual intervention in line with one's desires = magick. Prayer in my mind is merely another form of meditation, and if done consistently can provide a change to a more serene personality.