Whether it was then or now, it is exploiting an animals weakness for profit. I don't see how one is better then the other.

It's really irrelevant as to how it is personally seen as long as people are willing to not sweep their breed's history under the rug and go "la la la" should it be brought up. You can like the breed's history or you can not like it. Point is, it happened

Exploiting an animals' weakness? Do you have any idea the conditioning that went into a pit dog? They were athletes. No different than MMA fighters, boxers, etc. who keep in good physical shape and train (prepare) for their sport... the aforementioned human athletes all have coaches to oversee their workouts/training sessions to ensure they are done properly, as did pit dogs. You can't force a dog to fight, and you didn't need to. The way Border Collies instinctively herd, the way Rottweilers are instinctively protective, and the way Sighthounds instinctively give chase to small animals... It's not their weakness, it is their strength.

(For the record - I obviously don't condone modern day "dog fighting" in this country because not only is it illegal, but it is not done properly by dumb young thugs. But do I respect the history of the breed? Absolutely. In my opinion, a proper understanding and respect for where the breed came from is necessary to properly own them.)

When I think of "dogmen" I think of the old days when they didn't fight for prize money, they fought mainly to test breeding stock, to continue to produce not only top athletes, but dogs with the trait of "gameness".

Nowadays you've got people breeding just winners, no care otherwise, they win, they're bred, they're given crappy home care, "conditioned" (which nowadays seems like they just starve 'em an call it such), and it's for money.

I never said it didn't happen, I said its horrible.

And I think what you do to your dog is horrible.

Everyone has an opinion.

I never said that you said it didn't happen. I said how it was generally viewed is irrelevant

Weakness meaning dog aggression. They did it (whether for money or entertainment) and it is exploitive. To compare it to a HUMAN athlete that voluntarily gets in the ring to an animal that was bred to be inherently more and more dog aggressive is retarded. Human beings have the ability to make conscience decisions, realizing the consequences-- animals do NOT. Yes they were worked hard. Not voluntarily (yet again because they don't have minds to make consciious decisions).
You don't condone modern day dog fighting but you think it's pretty slick that they did it "back in the day"?? How old are you??
They don't realize what injuries they are going to inflict or receive. They do not know that they may die. We DO! That's the difference. The pride in this blood sport is shocking!

---------- Post added at 05:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:10 PM ----------

I believe I am allowed my opinion on the subject? Ya thanks...

You have every right to your opinion. I just have equal right to find it stupid/irrelevant and say as such. If you're going to get sandyvag-itis every time someone says something that disagrees with your worldview, this forum is going to suck for you

Dog aggression is a weakness, if you compare it to chocolate is a woman's weakness... because you know how women love chocolate!

Yes, comparing dogs to humans doesn't really work... but sometimes, it makes a little bit of sense. If you've never seen a dog do something they love purely out of instinct and genetics, you will NEVER understand. I take my dogs running with the truck - they can't drive the truck themselves, so I have to drive for them. This could be said that they aren't running voluntarily, but they LOVE it. As dogs, they usually need the assistance of humans to accomplish things they want - food, play, etc. Just because they need assistance doesn't mean it is something they wouldn't do on their own if they could. Border Collies don't herd only when asked.. they do it whenever they can, because it's how they are.

I don't condone modern dog fighting where it is illegal, and I have no respect wanna-be idiots with no respect for the dogs and think they are "badass dog fighters." I don't think it's "pretty slick" that dogs were matched back in the day - You're making me out like I'm some young buck seeing someone shoot a gun for the first time, and thinking they are so totally badass and wanting to be just like them. When in truth, I respect and love athletic dogs, their genetics, and their love for what they specialize in. It's why I have the #1 hunting Sighthound in the country - seeing a dog excel at what it was bred to do is the most amazing experience ever. Many people think hunting is a horrendous bloodsport, too... we've fought battles to keep it legal. The people trying to outlaw it are sensitive people with no way to understand having respect for dogs doing what dogs do.

I would have to say that you are being hypocritical. I'm staunchly disagreeing with teal on the fact that it's ok to fight dogs (fight dogs with respect I mean,whatever the fuck that might mean) and you can't stand that I'm disagreeing....
Me thinking dog fighting is legitimately fucked up is stupid....? Whatthefuckever..

---------- Post added at 05:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:32 PM ----------

Dogs only "love" (here we go anthropomorphizing again) to do things that we genetically inbreed them to do. It serves no purpose. Herding does. Protection does. Hound scent does. Fighting is for entertainment/profit and no other reason. If they "love" fighting it is because we tweaked (or fucked) their genetics. You are in your mid twenties?? That's a pretty "young buck" IMO. You have the #1 sight hound.... do you want to mention that a few more times even though it doesn't pertain to this conversation whatsoever (just want bragging rights).
I never said they don't do it on their own. Only that we as a fucked up human society bred it into them for our own amusement, which = exploitation.

---------- Post added at 05:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:40 PM ----------

Hey Teal. You admire the "dog men of old" so damn much then you can be the first to sacrifice your dogs in their fighting rings. Check if they are "game".

Actually, I was speaking in general terms on opinions about anything, because it seems like most everyone that's fond of going "baww my opinion rights baww" can't stick that shoe on the other foot and when giving their own opinions for the sole purpose of validation or asspats. You're looking for implications that simply aren't there and that's not my problem.


Teal said "blah", you said "blah", I said at the end of the day our feelings on it are irrelevant in the face of the fact that it happened. You chose to get butthurt about it, which is neither my fault or my problem, but I'm assuming by now that you just like confrontation anyway.

Though you might want to bother and learn the difference between "game" and "dead game" if you're going to try to use the term "game" in an argument

I don't give a shit to learn the terms of dog fighting because I don't intend on fighting my dog. As for "teal said blah and I said blah" that's what a forum is. Opinions. Advice. Interesting stories.
Im disagreeing with any dog fighting being "respectful". I have that right. You don't like it.... http://www.pitbull-chat.com/images/smilies/nopity.gif

I'm tiring of going in circles with you, so I'll only respond to this - Technically, humans exploit EVERY SINGLE DOG OUT THERE.

Herding dogs were developed for herding ability to serve man... exploitation.

Protection dogs were developed to guard property and person at risk to themselves... exploitation.

Sighthounds are used to catch meals for their masters... exploitation.

Cavalier King Charles Spaniels were developed solely for the purpose of sitting with royalty... exploitation.

So, I'm sorry, but I fail to see your point.

But most of the things listed above had a genuine purpose. Fighting has no purpose. There are no circles here, you just can't defend yourself so you are bowing out. I'm ok with that...
Point is that we completely disagree.... fine....

---------- Post added at 06:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 PM ----------

I find it strange and slightly shameful that no one else is speaking up against dog fighting. Or even dog fighting pride....

Which proves your ignorance. The term "game" is not a dog fighting or APBT exclusive word. It's been used for terriers and terrier types for years. In fact, for the Irish Kennel Club before 1968 a terrier could not become a terrier champion without a certificate of gameness. This included breeds like the Wheaten and the Kerry Blue, and they were nowhere near a pit.

Furthermore, using "I don't intend to do it" is a piss poor excuse to not educate yourself, especially if you're going to use the word in the quest to make some sort of statement. At the end of the day it just makes you seem like an idiot that throws out words she doesn't understand in a failed attempt to seem clever

As for "teal said blah and I said blah" that's what a forum is. Opinions. Advice. Interesting stories.
Im disagreeing with any dog fighting being "respectful". I have that right. You don't like it.... http://www.pitbull-chat.com/images/smilies/nopity.gif I find it generally amusing. You;re the one with your shorts in a wad because someone dare say something that didn't agree with you. Not me

Game- the willingness to go against all odds even with the threat of severe injury or even death.
I think that can be applicable to dog fighting.

Applicable? Yes. Exclusive? No. Reason to not educate yourself? Hell no

I guess to truly educate myself I'd better witness a dog fight? Or better yet, fight my dog? Yea no thanks.

---------- Post added at 06:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:10 PM ----------

I don't believe I said exclusively... you are twisting my words for your own purpose.

...or you could just read a book or two like a normal fucking person....

Lol no, you're the one who acted like one was exclusive to the other. I'm not the one who said it was a dogfighting term and didn't see a reason to learn about it because I didn't intend to fight my dog. You were. Backpedal harder