[fhutiussk]

Hello again,

So I went ahead and followed the recommendations on my last thread and did a bit more research on the history of pit bulls. I noticed I had no support and something didn't feel right, I mean I didn't get where I am by assuming everyone trying to talk with me is an ignorant and brainwashed hater. I'm glad I did because it confirmed my suspicion that I managed to step into a fanatic crowd.

I found this on pit bulls. I guess most of you have already seen it, but I still want to point the highlights of the video.

-Acknowledgment of the social concern and explanation why BSL is not the proper way to address it.
-Acknowledgment of the cruelty and overall nefariousness of dog fighting. This is accepting history, not imposing it as fate.
-Emphasis on what a pit bull is, should be and is bred for: working drive, strong athletic build, loving temperament. And what it is not: fighting dog.
-Explicit mention of DA as 'bad attitude" and undesirable in the breed.
-DA as something that needs to be prevented by extensive socialization or dealt with by training. Not encouraged or blindly accepted.

For all those pit bull experts here that disagree with the points above and will aggressively argue for their idiotic personal conceptions of the breed, I would strongly suggest to keep your mouth shut and your posts to yourself, you are fucking up the hard work of those that truly love these dogs.

Good luck and good day to all.

[adolfadsermens]

Blah blah blah troll lol. Trying to start crap again. Dftt

[astonmartinrx371]

I don't really think DA can be prevented. It can happen in any breed. It's just that "pitbulls" are more prone to it. I do think socialization and training can help manage it. I don't encourage it but I wouldn't blame the dog if it developed, I would manage it. It doesn't make the dog "bad" or "wrong".

Also, (not to be rude and assuming you're not a troll) if you so strongly disagree with the views of the people who frequent this forum and you think everyone here are "fanatics" then either ignore them or maybe it would be best if you didn't visit the forum at all... Agruing about stuff doesn't really accomplish much does it? I think this is a good place for people to learn things, debate (not argue) and share opinions and experiences. So if you're not doing any of that and you're not getting anything from being here then don't be here.

[paypaltoegold1]

When i first started reading your thread I thought you were going to state a ground breaking revalation.

Are yousaying a pit bull is not a fighting dog? They are.People use pit bulls to fight so that makes pit bulls fighting dogs.

We could talk forever on how it should be, but it is what it is. Some folks fight their dogs, some folks give our dogs a bad image, many pit bulls are dog aggressive, many pit bulls will fight given the chance. thats just the way it is.

Just take care of yours and be a good ambassador for the breed.

[U2DnBGFE]

If I believed everything *I* saw in a YouTube video...

Dear lord, what a state I'd be in!

[HotDolly]

Breed standard, it says:

CHARACTERISTICS

• The essential characteristics of the American Pit Bull Terrier are strength, confidence, and zest for life. This breed is eager to please and brimming over with enthusiasm. APBTs make excellent family companions and have always been noted for their love of children. Because most APBTs exhibit some level of dog aggression and because of its powerful physique, the APBT requires an owner who will carefully socialize and obedience train the dog. The breed’s natural agility makes it one of the most capable canine climbers so good fencing is a must for this breed. The APBT is not the bestchoice for a guard dog since they are extremely friendly, even with strangers. Aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable. This breed does very well in performance events because of its high level of intelligence and its willingness to work.
  
  
  

[E4qC1qQ5]

Good post tiffseagles!

[Rffkwfct]

The UKC, established in 1898, breed standard:

• The essential characteristics of the American Pit Bull Terrier are strength, confidence, and zest for life. This breed is eager to please and brimming over with enthusiasm. APBTs make excellent family companions and have always been noted for their love of children. Because most APBTs exhibit some level of dog aggression and because of its powerful physique, the APBT requires an owner who will carefully socialize and obedience train the dog. The breed’s natural agility makes it one of the most capable canine climbers so good fencing is a must for this breed. The APBT is not the best choice for a guard dog since they are extremely friendly, even with strangers. Aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable. This breed does very well in performance events because of its high level of intelligence and its willingness to work.
  
  The ABDA, established 1909, breed standard:
  C. Presentation
  1. Dog is socialized, showing interest in things around him.
  2. Although some degree of dog aggressiveness is characteristic of the breed, unruly behavior will detract from the judges ability to accurately judge an individual dogs conformation.
  
  
• But, hey, some jackass on Youtube is a much better source than breed clubs and registries who have existed for well over 100 years.
  
  Next time you "research" do it from a reputable source. Kthanxbye.
  

[dosugxxx]

-DA as something that needs to be prevented by extensive socialization or dealt with by training. Not encouraged or blindly accepted.

Some questions for you brujo. Many of us here have taken the time to answer your questions thoughtfully and respectfully. Many of us invited you into our lives in the first thread - posting pictures of ourselves, our families our dogs, sharing details about the kinds of activities we do with our dogs and what we love about them. I'm not asking you to share pictures but some general information regarding where you are coming from:

Do you own dogs? what breed? What is your favorite breed, what do you love about it, is there anything about it that you tolerate or would change if you could?

What activities do you do with your dog? How do you enjoy spending time with your dog (s)? Do you train and if so what methods do you employ, who are your favorite trainers?

I hope you don't find the above intrusive; I think many of us here have shared that amount of personal information. I ask simply because I am curious.

A final question I would ask is what is your personal experience with DA?

I am going to tell you a story because I think you are confusing the position of many people here with regards to DA; since you imply that by accepting it we encourage it; or worse yet simply encourage it.

I have a 5 1/2 year old UKC pit bull. This dog is actually about 90% Amstaff which is considered the "watered down" version of the APBT - the dog that has been bred for @ the past 80 years solely for conformation in the show ring...to strut it's stuff at the Westminster.

Like it or not many of these "watered down" dogs are still DA; some more so than others, some are dog friendly, some selective, some tolerant...it runs the gamut much as you will see with any other Terrier.

My dog is actually not DA; she's dog reactive. Here's the difference: she doesn't want to kill other dogs; but she is very uncomfortable when strange dogs get in her personal space, she is very quick to take offense and make a threat display which is a distance increasing behavior (it says "get away from me, I'm going to act all mean and scary so you go away"). I think based on knowing my dog and observing her behavior and temperment that if another dog started with her...she would "defend" herself and in all likelihoofd go overboard...really overboard.

Do I know for certain? No I don't because I have never put her in a situation where that could happen. Perhaps you think I just "want her to be DA" and am denying her opportunities to socialize and thus encouraging the problem. I don't know - do you want to invite us over to practice with your dog and see what happens?

For the record I agree with you and I know many here do as well...socialization can make a HUGE difference; and it's ALL about training...but sometimes all the socialization in the world won't wish an issue away. I didn't want my dog to be DA or reactive. I got her from a breeder who said that her dogs were not particularly DA. I put her in training classes around other dogs from the age of 10 weeks and I haven't stopped. We still go to class just about every week; there were times when we went multiple times per week.

When her difficulty with other dogs started surfacing I consulted the various trainers I was working with. I saw a behaviorist for an evaluation. I went above and beyond because I have appreciation of the interplay between nature and nurture; and I wanted to give nurture every opportunity to win out. Guess what...not so much.

Could I have pushed the envelope m ore? Well I suppose I could at the risk of having someone else'd dog get potentially badly hurt. At the risk of having my dog taken away and euthed for having killed another dog. If you would like to play Russian roulette...fine by me; but I have a conscience...and I will not take an unacceptable risk.

THAT is what people here mean when they talk about accepting the potential for DA. It's not about encouraging it; it's not about throwing up your hands and saying "Oh well there's nothing I can do"; it's about recognizing that sometimes it's going to be there...and you can either stick your head up your bum and then when someone else's dog gets killed at the dog park you can flap your hands and say "Oh my, but I never saw it coming, I did everything possible to socialize him" - which you can imagine will be cold comfort to the person with the dead dog (and your dog won't make out very well either). Or you can be realistic about the potential for DA, and you can learn your dog's temperment and body language...and when you see inklings for concern...you can decide not to put your dog and someone else's at risk.

That is where training comes into the picture. No one here believes it is acceptable for a dog to act like a jackass in public. With many DA, dog reactive, dog selective, dog tolerant dogs; training involves teaching the dog that when out in public you need to focus on me, ignore the other dogs, maintain your composure...and that can be extremely successful. That is what I work on with my dog. That is why she can go out and about where other dogs are and you won't know that she really, really doesn't like for those other dogs to be so close to her. And my dog can go just about anywhere on leash and behave perfectly appropriately.

Do I like that she does not like/get along with other dogs...No, it creates more work, more training needs and frankly is a pain in the ass. Can I change it? I tried my damndest, and while I am no professional trainer - I am not an idiot either...the answer is "No, no dice, could not change it".

Do I accept it? Accepting it means I understand my dog's tolerances and limitations and I don't ask more of her than I know she is capable of. By my accepting it...I am keeping someone else's dog (as well as my own) safe.

It really is as simple as that.

[GillTeepbew]

For all those pit bull experts here that disagree with the points above and will aggressively argue for their idiotic personal conceptions of the breed, I would strongly suggest to keep your mouth shut and your posts to yourself, you are fucking up the hard work of those that truly love these dogs.

If there was any doubt this asshat is a troll, I think he cleared that up for us. Prolly with HSUS as well.

[wonceinee]

I stopped paying attention when he said dogs have a pack mentality like wolves. :/

Thats when you know this is BS.

[veizKinquiz]

you must have been reading different threads than I was, because the ones I saw most people said they would prefer their dogs weren't dog aggressive but they accept it as an unfortunate aspect of the breed. And pretty much everyone here supports training to manage DA and socialization, but at some point you have to accept that SOME dogs will have it and you have to deal with it. My dog, incidentally, is not dog aggressive, she's FEAR aggressive toward dogs which is a whole other pile of baggage but still something I have to deal with.

You really only see what you want to see, don't you.

[wonceinee]

I want to add McRose that Pit Bull terriers are that, terriers. Which were bred to kill animals.

The pit Bull or the Bull and Terrier dog was bred to fight many things; including dogs. And while Right now my dog isn't DA, I would accept her and still love her even if she developed it.

I also realized the PSI for the Pit bull was incorrect. They said 3k.

---------- Post added at 08:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:22 PM ----------

One last thing. Its been said many times but I feel it needs to be said again:

Dog Aggression (DA) and Human Aggression (HA) are not the same thing. I don't see where you are saying that we are ruining a good breed. HA dogs here are advised about 95% of the time to be PTS (Put to sleep). Few say to take them to the vet and rule out medical problems or to seek out a behaviorist. But I know many people on this site that will personally Put their dog down their self if it ever bared its teeth at them. Including myself.

I can tolerate DA, but I will bit tolerate HA.

[Desflahd]

I stopped paying attention when he said dogs have a pack mentality like wolves. :/

Thats when you know this is BS.

I quit when he said they were called "bullies" because they "bully" other dogs. Judas Priest where do they find these people.

[wonceinee]

I quit when he said they were called "bullies" because they "bully" other dogs. Judas Priest where do they find these people.

I have no clue. :/

[GillTeepbew]

What brujo fails to realize too is that NO ONE here is involved with, promotes or encourages dog fighting ... yet continually tries to imply that we do.

This guys agenda is nakedly apparent. He isn't here to learn about a dog he does not now nor ever owned nor should ever own, he is on a crusade against pit bulls ... a dog he doesn't understand and fears. He is here to enlighten us with Internet factoids from youtube idiots and the HSUS and to proclaim how "idiotic our conceptions" of our own dogs, their breed, history and our knowledge is.

I guess those of you who posted breed standards, only posted "idiotic conceptions" that some registry(ies) who promote dog fighting have and those standards should therefore be totally ignored.

[veizKinquiz]

Word, JoeBingo.

There are undoubtedly people who fight dogs, and breeders who cater to that clientele. But like I said before (and Brujo continues to ignore), that's not what attracted me to my dog. I fell in love with my dog's backstory and then her personality. I had no intention of getting a pit bull mix and almost didn't because I believed the hype. And I would have missed out on the sweetest, most wonderful dog in the world. I've never met a dog like this, ever. She's just special.

[juliannamed]

brujo take a long walk off a short bridge

[crazuMovies]

Hello again,

So I went ahead and followed the recommendations on my last thread and did a bit more research on the history of pit bulls. I noticed I had no support and something didn't feel right, I mean I didn't get where I am by assuming everyone trying to talk with me is an ignorant and brainwashed hater. I'm glad I did because it confirmed my suspicion that I managed to step into a fanatic crowd.

I found this on pit bulls. I guess most of you have already seen it, but I still want to point the highlights of the video.

-Acknowledgment of the social concern and explanation why BSL is not the proper way to address it.
-Acknowledgment of the cruelty and overall nefariousness of dog fighting. This is accepting history, not imposing it as fate.
-Emphasis on what a pit bull is, should be and is bred for: working drive, strong athletic build, loving temperament. And what it is not: fighting dog.
-Explicit mention of DA as 'bad attitude" and undesirable in the breed.
-DA as something that needs to be prevented by extensive socialization or dealt with by training. Not encouraged or blindly accepted.

For all those pit bull experts here that disagree with the points above and will aggressively argue for their idiotic personal conceptions of the breed, I would strongly suggest to keep your mouth shut and your posts to yourself, you are fucking up the hard work of those that truly love these dogs.

Good luck and good day to all.

[dosugxxx]

DWC -

What is that?

That is just the cutest thing eva!!!!

And I'm afraid Brujo really does have a pit bull issue.

We spent 2 threads trying to insinuate that DA = HA; and when that failed we fell back on "the dogs are good; it's the owners that suck"...except that we've all proved to be a fairly intelligent, reasonable, responsible bunch...so therefore we must all be closet dog fighters.

Partys at my house; let's meet at the meth lab in my basement!

Don't be fooled; that isn't black humor which is the result of having to put up with continuous insults and insinuations from complete strangers who never got within 10 feet of a pit bull...I am quite seriously the next "Breaking Bad". I'm sure you all can attest to the validity of this claim.