[Diwokfkq]

Hello all,

I must say I am quite happy to have found this forum. I used to own game bred dogs - not backyard breeder dogs thank you - in a fawn male, King, a brindle and white female, Zela [weight pull] which unfortunately I had to give up to friends and family while moving.

Now while moving I happened to come across a handful of pit bull advertisements where the dogs were blue eyed but no obvious merle markings [a trait that almost goes hand in hand otherwise].

So I am curious is this some sort of a new thing [like the old claims of "rare" blue nose and red nose dogs] in breeding blue eyed pits without merle? Does anyone possess a blue eyed non-merle dog by chance I could have a look at.


And by blue eyed dogs, I don't mean pups.


Thanks in advance.

[Chiquita]

i have a blue eyed pup but i know you said you don't mean pups but i believe his eyes are going to stay like that. he is going on 3 months. he is apbt/aussie shepherd mix

[phenterminediett]

I believe blue eyes is an "undesirable" trait in APBTs, although I am such a sucker for the blue eyed babes. I don't believe it's a disqualifying trait, just not something UKC breeders are "trying for", if that makes sense.

[Savviioor]

It is completely possible to possess blue eyes without being merle, merle is just one of the most common incidences of it. In the APBT, this usually occurs with a dog that has a lot of white on the face, though it can be a completely separate gene, though I don't think the APBT is a breed that possesses it, like the Huskies do

[Diwokfkq]

It is completely possible to possess blue eyes without being merle, merle is just one of the most common incidences of it. In the APBT, this usually occurs with a dog that has a lot of white on the face, though it can be a completely separate gene, though I don't think the APBT is a breed that possesses it, like the Huskies do

So it's kind of like what you'd find with "bald faced" horses where when the eye is covered in white fur, it is usually blue.

In that regard though are white faced blue eyed pits deaf and/or blind to your knowledge?

[no02rSx2]

I believe blue eyes is an "undesirable" trait in APBTs, although I am such a sucker for the blue eyed babes. I don't believe it's a disqualifying trait, just not something UKC breeders are "trying for", if that makes sense.

Blue eyes is a disqualification I think at the very least it is a fault. The only breeders I see with blue eyed dogs are peddlers. Same with the dogs with one eye one color the other a different color

[Diwokfkq]

Yes, yes. I am aware of this concept, I am looking at it from a genetic standpoint.

If I wanted to buy a blue eyed dog, I would be asking where can I get one or have said I bought one from the adverts I mentioned above.

And since blue isn't an original APBT color, it should be a disqualification but due to the number of dogs now of that coloring throughout the world making such a disqualification is impossible. Or if one wanted to believe some claims merle shouldn't be a disqualification as it's been in the breed for over 100 years and original merles were mislabelled.... in the same fashion how some "silver" Lab breeders register their dogs as chocolate.

[MyLeva]

Hi I am new from Australia I'm looking for blood lines for my 2pits. They are renoufs brigan,coolibahs shadow. Assasins savage/coolibahs marls just of any ones heard them please let me no

[Mynameishappy]

"bluenose dogs" have always been around...they just weren't bred for like they are now. The "d" recessive gene that causes dillution is part of this breed. The fact that it takes two "dd" alleles to result in a blue or liver nose dog "should" make them less prevalent than they are now.

[Diwokfkq]

Hi I am new from Australia I'm looking for blood lines for my 2pits. They are renoufs brigan,coolibahs shadow. Assasins savage/coolibahs marls just of any ones heard them please let me no

Kindly don't spam my post with your dogs.

---------- Post added at 12:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 PM ----------

"bluenose dogs" have always been around...they just weren't bred for like they are now. The "d" recessive gene that causes dillution is part of this breed. The fact that it takes two "dd" alleles to result in a blue or liver nose dog "should" make them less prevalent than they are now.

Yes there is a 2010 study of some pit bloodlines showed an inbreeding co-factor of almost 43% [I didn't bother buying this article though, so don't know more of that] which accounts for why blue and liver noses are more common.

And in that regard could not there be something similar with merle? Cryptic merle is available in other dog breeds... meaning that the merle markings aren't visible underneath a more dominanting coloration.

[phenterminediett]

Blue eyes is a disqualification I think at the very least it is a fault. The only breeders I see with blue eyed dogs are peddlers. Same with the dogs with one eye one color the other a different color

Thank you for clarifying for me, I know half a step from nothing of pit or bully genetics and I appreciate the correction.

[Savviioor]

So it's kind of like what you'd find with "bald faced" horses where when the eye is covered in white fur, it is usually blue.

In that regard though are white faced blue eyed pits deaf and/or blind to your knowledge?

Typically the reason that dogs that are true white (absence of pigment) or have a lot of white on the face can often be deaf is because that deafness is linked to the lack of pigment in certain spots on the inner ear. No pigment, no hearing

---------- Post added at 08:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 PM ----------

And since blue isn't an original APBT color, it should be a disqualification but due to the number of dogs now of that coloring throughout the world making such a disqualification is impossible.

The issue with this is that blue is just a dilute of black. Nothing more, nothing less. Any breed of dog with black in the line can have a blue mutation.
Or if one wanted to believe some claims merle shouldn't be a disqualification as it's been in the breed for over 100 years and original merles were mislabelled.... in the same fashion how some "silver" Lab breeders register their dogs as chocolate. The reason merle should be a disqualification is that merle breeding is directly linked to severe health problems. Sure, it's looks "pretty", but people never bother to mention the blind and deaf pups that are a direct result of irresponsible merle on merle breedings

[SerycegeBunny]

Who cares if it's blue eyed or merle as long as it's a hard working sombitch with a good hard bite

[Savviioor]

Lol. Well you can only be so hard working if you can't see and/or hear. And even if it can and it does, it still limits what you can breed with. Personally I don't care for them because of the chance of health issues among the pattern but to each his own. However I will say that the last thing bully breeds need is merle, lest it become the new blue. Think there's dogs in shelters now? Watch that hit and every person thinking it's cool starts breeding merle studs to merle bitches and dumping off their pups with issues. It's already a huge problem in breeds it's allowed in, though the ribbon chasers like to sweep it under the rug, stick their fingers in their ears and go "la la la" about it

[phenterminediett]

Lol. Well you can only be so hard working if you can't see and/or hear. And even if it can and it does, it still limits what you can breed with. Personally I don't care for them because of the chance of health issues among the pattern but to each his own. However I will say that the last thing bully breeds need is merle, lest it become the new blue. Think there's dogs in shelters now? Watch that hit and every person thinking it's cool starts breeding merle studs to merle bitches and dumping off their pups with issues. It's already a huge problem in breeds it's allowed in, though the ribbon chasers like to sweep it under the rug, stick their fingers in their ears and go "la la la" about it

This is a scary thought.

[Mynameishappy]

---------- Post added at 08:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 PM ----------

The issue with this is that blue is just a dilute of black. Nothing more, nothing less. Any breed of dog with black in the line can have a blue mutation.

Actually the color "blue" has nothing to do with a "mutation or changing of DNA Sequencing". It is just caused by two recessive genes on the same strand of DNA resulting in a Phenotype (outwardly visible) and Genotype (actual genetic makeup) of dilluted color. It is also not just a dillution of Black...but also Brown.

[Soolfelpecelf]

Actually the color "blue" has nothing to do with a "mutation or changing of DNA Sequencing". It is just caused by two recessive genes on the same strand of DNA resulting in a Phenotype (outwardly visible) and Genotype (actual genetic makeup) of dilluted color. It is also not just a dillution of Black...but also Brown.

Right, the genes causing dilution are totally separate from those that determine "color".

---------- Post added at 02:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------

In the APBT, this usually occurs with a dog that has a lot of white on the face, though it can be a completely separate gene, though I don't think the APBT is a breed that possesses it, like the Huskies do

I was wondering about that.....the blue-eyed dogs I've seen have all white on that side of the face....the other, pigmented side has "normal" brown eye. So this would just be an eye following the pigment and NOT a separate gene, correct? I guess if you had a black dog (all over the face) and it's eyes were blue, then THAT would be a separate gene for blue? Has anyone seen this in APBTs?

Carla

[seosoftseo]

I was walking my pdog the other day and a group of guys came up to my dog and the one said to the other check to see if his eyes are blue. so the guy grabs my dogs head to look into her eyes. Then they left disapointed because my pup eyes are not blue. It was a little shocking because 1)I didnt know blue eyes were a desirable trait. 2) They did not even acknowledge my presence and they approached a strange dog

Lucky for them my dog loves poeple too much.

[Savviioor]

Actually the color "blue" has nothing to do with a "mutation or changing of DNA Sequencing". It is just caused by two recessive genes on the same strand of DNA resulting in a Phenotype (outwardly visible) and Genotype (actual genetic makeup) of dilluted color. It is also not just a dillution of Black...but also Brown.

To clarify, I define mutation as a change within the original normal scope of genetics for that species. Because the dilution gene (dd) impairs the creation of the normal amount of pigment, it can in fact be seen as a hypomorphic mutation. Brown/liver dogs that show the on the other hand fall under the term "isabella"

I was wondering about that.....the blue-eyed dogs I've seen have all white on that side of the face....the other, pigmented side has "normal" brown eye. So this would just be an eye following the pigment and NOT a separate gene, correct?

Correct
I guess if you had a black dog (all over the face) and it's eyes were blue, then THAT would be a separate gene for blue? Has anyone seen this in APBTs?
Carla I personally haven't

[TepSteade]

I was walking my pdog the other day and a group of guys came up to my dog and the one said to the other check to see if his eyes are blue. so the guy grabs my dogs head to look into her eyes. Then they left disapointed because my pup eyes are not blue. It was a little shocking because 1)I didnt know blue eyes were a desirable trait. 2) They did not even acknowledge my presence and they approached a strange dog

Lucky for them my dog loves poeple too much.

Someone would have got punched in the face!!!!