[Leaters]

So I work with this older guy who is stubborn as a mule...you all know the kind, even when he knows he is wrong he still insists he is right. Anyway my coworker was going to sell some toy breed mutts and I stated that I dont know why anybody would pay for a mutt, then the old guy (also a coworker) jumped in and says that the APBT is a mutt and it is not recognized as a breed and never fought in the pit. I was like WTF are you serious? I say to him yes the APBT fought in the pit which is how they got part of their name, they are also recognized as a breed in fact the UKC was started for the breed and that yes the breed originated out of cross breeding other dogs but what dog didnt? And his answer to this was "mine, the english bull dog". At this point I was thinking oh geeze I am just going to walk away from this one. So I go home and start researching a little on the history of the english bull dog and I notice it looks very much like this history of the APBT so this bring me to a question comparing the history of the bull dog and the APBT are they tied in with each other? If so what came first, the APBT or the old english bull dog? I found this link that leaves me guessing http://www.realpitbull.com/history.html what is everybody elses take on this?

[Catalogov]

The American Pit Bull Terrier (by that name) was first recognized by the UKC in 1898.
http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/B...dNovember12008
The ADBA first recognized the APBT in 1909 its original documentation can be seen here: http://www.adbadog.com/p_gallary.asp?aid=18&pid=885

The English (or British) Bulldog was first recognized in 1902. This is the official history published by the AKC http://www.akc.org/breeds/bulldog/history.cfm in it it states that the "bull dog" after 1835 was purposefully bred to recreate the earlier dog without its viscousness. In other words, this breed is different than the original bulldog cited in the histories of both breeds...

"there were dog lovers who felt deep disappointment at the passing of the bred, and they set themselves the task of preserving it. They proceeded to eliminate the undesirable fierce characteristics and to preserve and accentuate the finer qualities. Within a few generations, the English Bulldog became one of the finest physical specimens, minus its original viciousness."

There is alot more to still be discussed, but it may not be worth it with this asshole. Anyone who states that the APBT was never used as a fighting dog is an idiot.

[Leaters]

So was the original bulldog a reflection or better yet the APBT we have today? and yes I agree that he is a moron witch is why I brought my question to more educated and experienced people of this forum so that I may get a educated answer or open minded discussion rather then an all out war at work. (I wanted to slap him for being so dumb...)

[TypeTeasiaDer]

One thing that should be noted about the english bulldog, the english bulldog of today is not the same english bulldog of yesteryear, commonly called olde english bulldogge. Breeders trying to preserve the breed into modern times and for a modern lifestyle bred the dogs with all of its original quality, except animal aggression. Then eventually, people began mixing in pug blood and we now have our modern english bulldog. Also the original olde english bulldogge is also a mix, supposedly descended from the old Roman war dogs, the alaunt. Either way, both olde english and modern english bulldog breeds were created by mixing in other breeds.

[Leaters]

could it be possible that the english bulldog and the pitbull terrier both spawned off the old bulldog. Possibly originated off the same dog to become what they are today? From what I read the apbt was a either mongrel terrier mix or a bulldog terrier mix and the english bulldog was a mastiff (witch was originally the mongrel) and a boston terrier mix..this is debated. So how do we know if the old bulldog became the pitdog or just was further bred with the boston terrier to become what they are today? To me I see a connection but whether I am right or wrong I have no idea just curiosity, so if I am wrong about anything feel free to correct me.

[chechokancho]

Well, since the Bull and Terrier contributed to the creation of the APBT, the now extinct Old English Bulldog contributed to the creation of the now extinct Bull and Terrier, however the APBT had contributed to the creation of the Olde English Bulldogge, so no his mutt of the English Bulldog is no way was created first, LOL

---------- Post added 06-13-2010 at 12:02 AM ---------- Previous post was 06-12-2010 at 11:53 PM ----------

One thing that should be noted about the english bulldog, the english bulldog of today is not the same english bulldog of yesteryear, commonly called olde english bulldogge.

This is incorrect, Olde English Bulldogge is a relatively young breed created in the attempt to bring back the Old English Bulldog in the early 70's

[Leaters]

Well, since the Bull and Terrier contributed to the creation of the APBT, the now extinct Old English Bulldog contributed to the creation of the now extinct Bull and Terrier, however the APBT had contributed to the creation of the Olde English Bulldogge, so no his mutt of the English Bulldog is no way was created first, LOL

What is the difference between the old english bulldog and the olde english bulldogge?

---------- Post added at 12:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 AM ----------

never mind I just read your last post!

[chechokancho]

Don't be confused with them, the modern English Bulldog contributed the 1/2 of the creation of the Olde English Bulldogge, the modern English Bulldog has little reference left to the Old English Bulldog the breed that is now extinct.

[Leaters]

the english bulldog now couldnt take down a bull in my opinion, not talking bad about the breed but the ones I see now can barley walk across the room without resting. Sad considering what they once were.

[chechokancho]

the english bulldog now couldnt take down a bull in my opinion, not talking bad about the breed but the ones I see now can barley walk across the room without resting. Sad considering what they once were.

Unfortunately, our society has ruined the breed as many other breeds.
The kennel club organized by so called animal lovers (I'm purposely leaving the name incomplete, almost all kennel clubs have contributed to eradicating working breeds to some extent) have created the standard for the EB that requires the bitch to undergo a c-section to deliver puppies, I am not even mentioning that these dogs cannot breed naturally.
I am done for tonight with my rants

[TypeTeasiaDer]

This is incorrect, Olde English Bulldogge is a relatively young breed created in the attempt to bring back the Old English Bulldog in the early 70's

I'm not talking about the Leavitt Line Bulldogs or any of the modern reincarnations of the old english bulldog. The olde english bulldogge/old english bulldog (however you choose to spell it LOL) is the one that was of an athletic build. There is a famous painting of a dog named rosie, she is the olde english I am referencing towards. The original bull baiting dog.

[chechokancho]

I'm not talking about the Leavitt Line Bulldogs or any of the modern reincarnations of the old english bulldog. The olde english bulldogge/old english bulldog (however you choose to spell it LOL) is the one that was of an athletic build. There is a famous painting of a dog named rosie, she is the olde english I am referencing towards. The original bull baiting dog.

Yep that's the Old English Bulldog that no longer exist.

[Leaters]

I'm not talking about the Leavitt Line Bulldogs or any of the modern reincarnations of the old english bulldog. The olde english bulldogge/old english bulldog (however you choose to spell it LOL) is the one that was of an athletic build. There is a famous painting of a dog named rosie, she is the olde english I am referencing towards. The original bull baiting dog.

was rosie the one that keeps being mentioned as the butchers bull baiting dog?

[Plokiikmol]

Chipper, our Olde English Bulldogge




Eddie, our AKC almost-CH English Bulldog (we got him on a neuter contract from his owner/breeder/handler)



The difference is that one was athletic and drivey and could go on a 1 1/2 mile walk/jog and still come home and want to play on the springpole for an hour or work the flirt pole and the other would have to stop and rest after jumping off the couch and walking 20 ft. lol

[Leaters]

you can tell by the body styles what one was more athletic thanks for sharing these pics

[TypeTeasiaDer]

was rosie the one that keeps being mentioned as the butchers bull baiting dog?

Yeah, Roside was the butcher's dog.

---------- Post added at 07:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:03 PM ----------

Chipper, our Olde English Bulldogge




Eddie, our AKC almost-CH English Bulldog (we got him on a neuter contract from his owner/breeder/handler)



The difference is that one was athletic and drivey and could go on a 1 1/2 mile walk/jog and still come home and want to play on the springpole for an hour or work the flirt pole and the other would have to stop and rest after jumping off the couch and walking 20 ft. lol

That is one of the best english bulldog I've seen. I've seen too many that are/were overly bully. I also like your OEB. Did you get his tail cropped, or was he born with the bob tail?

[Plokiikmol]

He was born with a kinked tail.

And our EB was actually horrible: sway-backed and funky little head. We just kept him leaner.

I loved that OEB. I'll try to fin a pic with him and one of our APBTs to show his size. He was pretty tall and averages about 85 lbs in weight.

[anolbom]

We've got four English Bulldogs. I'm not a fan of the breed but my wife is and so I like "our" dogs and I've done some reading on the subject.

The Bull baiting Butcher's dog of the past no longer exists. The Olde English Bulldoge, (sp) is the modern recreation of what the Bull baiting dogs of the past were supposed to be like without the viciousness and more closely resemble the dogs in old paintings. Today's APBT is probably the closest in terms of prey drive and ability to the Bulldogs of the past.

Also, not all EB's are lazy, unathletic dogs. We've had two that had as much energy and drive as any dog I've ever had. Must have had a throwback gene or something because they definately were not lazy and could and would go hard for short periods. They are limited by their lack of stamina, not heart.