[MipRippoomamn]

i know that what im about to do will probably get me flamed on here and i want to start by saying i have no intentions of changing my mind. if the only response anyone has for me is just to not do it or to try and talk me out of it, save your breath, i am not the type to be talked out of something once i set my mind to it.

ok, now that were passed that, a little about myself. i am in my 30's ive owned, lived with, raised, and taken care of numerous bulldogs over the years and i consider myself to be a VERY experienced owner. when i was a youngin my father used to breed pitbulls but he got tired of it when he got older so i have limited 2nd hand knowledge of breeding. currently, i own 2 bulldogs now. 1 male APBT with a decent pedigree. hes a beautiful, strong, willful dog and hes only 4 months old. i also own an unregistered female, about 5 years old, whom i have no interest in breeding. she is just a dog that i was supposed to be taking care of for someone temporarily but it turned into a permanent situation. my living conditions are suitable for the housing of multiple bulldogs.

now, WHY i want to breed. all my life since i was small ive owned some kind of bulldog, whether it be APBT or AMSTAFF even had a blue bully once. everywhere i look around here i see pitbulls for sale and very few of them are what i would consider to be worthy of breeding. in fact, most arent even pure bred dogs and are unregistered. the only registered pitbulls i see for sale in the area are the blue bully type which i may call a pitbull i definitely dont consider them an APBT despite what registry disagrees with me. what i want to do and what im GOING to do is acquire 2 quality bulldogs, one of which i am already the VERY proud owner of, and breed what i consider to be a more traditional, TRUER version of the APBT to not only help keep the breed alive, but educate people on what a true APBT really is.

ive seen many people online who criticize people for breeding dogs that arent show champions or weight pulling champions and i want to put it out there that i have ZERO interest in attending or having any of my dogs compete in any shows. dog shows and events just dont suit me.

i already have a couple different people i can go to for advice but i figured it couldnt hurt to come on here and learn all i can since i have plenty of time to prepare for all this. if there are any questions i can answer let me know and ill try to answer as best i can. thanks in advance for any constructive posts and advice you can all give.

[EvaQWmrm]

Im not sure what advice your actually looking for? There are a bunch of stickys at the top of all the sections and there are some on puppy basics and such. Maybe if you give us an idea of what type of advice you need?

[MipRippoomamn]

Im not sure what advice your actually for? There are a bunch of stickys at the top of all the sections and there are some on puppy basics and such. Maybe if you give us an idea of what type of advice your looking for?

really just pointers about the actual breeding process. things to keep in mind, anything that someone with experience could share.

---------- Post added at 09:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 PM ----------

Im not sure what advice your actually looking for? There are a bunch of stickys at the top of all the sections and there are some on puppy basics and such. Maybe if you give us an idea of what type of advice you need?

ive actually read thru pretty much all the stickys too. found a lot of good info on where to get leashes, collars and the like. no stores around here sell anything of any quality.

[Crundaangerge]

How is a 4 month old pup quality?

[MipRippoomamn]

How is a 4 month old pup quality?

first, he has a good pedigree. hes been checked out by a vet and is perfectly healthy. the dog is full of drive and energy, even more than most puppies i have seen his age. he has taken to training exceptionally well. judging by his size and build he SHOULD easily meet conformation standards for those interested in that sort of thing. not to mention hes a damn good looking dog.

[gooseCile]

I hope you plan on breeding based on more than looks and a pedigree. Actually, I hope you don't plan on breeding.

[sterofthemasteool]

Yeah um good luck with that.

[QualityReachOut]

Nobody here condones the backyard breeding of more "pets". And yes, what you are planning to do DOES fit the description of a backyard breeder.

Having said that, when I first started lurking the various pit bull forums, I was a breeder. Like you, my are was full of unregistered, sub par bulldogs.

I bred two litters, and raised two more that came from "rescued" pregnant bitches.

I lost two of the litters. The first because the damn had mastitus, and the vet misdiagnosed the pups with "fading puppy syndrome". The second litter I lost to a bad batch of Happy Jack's puppy dewormer.

When I advertised the first litter, I had dozens of calls, nearly all of which were from idiots looking for fighters and not afraid to straight up ask for one. I had managed to re-home (after the first two weeks I gave up asking for money) that litter to some seemingly descent families.

I thought I'd have better luck with the second litter as the sire and damn were outstanding with very heavy Sorrel blood.

Only ONE person responded to the adds, and he was a college student looking for an image.

The other six puppies were given away to friends and family.

Now, I could have made a killing if I had been base enough to sell to whoever offerred, but the quality of people wanting to buy was atrocious.

The hell if I'm going to sell a dog to a thug dog fighter or to image seekers or even to well meaning folks who have no understanding of the responsibility that comes with this breed.

This is not a situation that is unique to my area, it is the same everywhere.

If you are willing to sell your pups to anyone with the cash, then you might be able to move a few puppies. IF you do this, you are a straight up ass, because clearly you care nothing for the dogs you bring into the world, nor do you care about the future of the breed as a whole. Each time one of these dogs is placed in the wrong hands (and the wrong hands faaaaaaaaaaaar outnumber the right ones when these breds are involved) you are putting another black mark on the reputation and future of this breed.

The puppies you sell, unless you are incredibly carefull about who you sell to, will end up as fighters, or abandoned when their new owners don't want to deal with them anymore, or they wind up as a headline when their idiot owners allow them to do something bad.

Dogs are not a commodity. They are living creatures. It's not like building a table and selling it on Craigslist. WHO you give your puppies too determines the rest of that pup's life. It is a breeder's responsibility to ensure that each pup that he brings into the world is safe, happy, and cared for.

You have a much better chance at finding good homes for pups if your dogs have been worked in some sport or shown, as the knowledgable, responsible bully owners look for pups coming from breeders like this.

The only folks you will attract with untested stock (registered or not) are other idiots with plans of breeding for money, dog fighters, image seekers, and individuals that don't know any better. Those that don't know better, probably don't know much about anything to do with the breed, or they wouldn't be dumb enough to buy from a person like you in the first place.

To conclude, if you do what you are planning to do how you are planning to do it, you might as well hand customers a gun, and charge them $400 to shoot a pup, as anything you produced will likely be dead by the time they would reach maturity anyway. Either dead, or another headline bringing down BSL on all our heads.

[MipRippoomamn]

I hope you plan on breeding based on more than looks and a pedigree. Actually, I hope you don't plan on breeding.

well, if you read my post its pretty obvious i do plan on breeding and i thought i was clear on what ill be basing my breeding program on. pedigree does have something to do with breeding since it gives you a better idea of what you can expect from your dogs. as far as looks go, i wont breed for looks but, looks do influence people when it comes to dogs quite a bit.

[Crundaangerge]

Thats what every 4 month old dog achieves up to that point. Basically you have a dog with papers that might be right or might not,you like the look of the dog and he has done puppy things like eating,shitting,drinking and some training. Not trying to knock your dog or anything but I don't see anything exceptional. What sort of hopes do you have for the dog and what will you do if he does not fulfill your expectancies?

[nannysuetle]

What do you want to do to prove your dogs are worthy of breeding? Is it just a certain 'look' that you're looking to produce?

I really don't give a damn what people do with their personal property. But the ethical thing to do is to think about the breed's future, if you do truly love this breed. Yes, we need responsible, ethical breeders to keep this breed alive. I want the breed to survive. But it is my personal opinion that there are way too many 'pit bulls' out there, owned & bred by every Tom, Dick & Harry. This is a lot of dog, and not everyone is capable of handling & owning one responsibly. So this breed is also the most common to end up in a shelter and to be euthanized. I want the breed to survive, but I also want fewer of them out there in the world.

In my opinion, the biggest thing for you to worry about is who are you going to give your pups to? How are you going to ensure that the new owners are going to do right by the dogs & not let them end up in the shelter or making us all look bad? That's the biggest problem w/ the breed today - not enough responsible owners.

[gooseCile]

Just a few.....
So, You Want To Breed Your Female? - Health Nutritional Care
Ataxia - Health Nutritional Care
Health Testing... Doesn't Mean Just a Yearly Vet Check - Health Nutritional Care
If she is giving birth.. - Health Nutritional Care

Also, I'd rather the experienced breeders be the only ones breeding this breed, and their apprentices in the future. I don't trust that you know what you're doing if you think a 4 month old is qualified to breed without any testing, showing, working, etc etc.

[Rememavotscam]

Yeah um good luck with that.

agreed... wasnt it in the craigslist thread I made about a person who bred "two pitbulls because I have pitbull experience and need money for tuition"

[netamargr]

So you just created this thread to put it into our faces?
Good luck with your endeavors, I just hope you realize that papers do not make the dog.

[MipRippoomamn]

Nobody here condones the backyard breeding of more "pets". And yes, what you are planning to do DOES fit the description of a backyard breeder.

Having said that, when I first started lurking the various pit bull forums, I was a breeder. Like you, my are was full of unregistered, sub par bulldogs.

I bred two litters, and raised two more that came from "rescued" pregnant bitches.

I lost two of the litters. The first because the damn had mastitus, and the vet misdiagnosed the pups with "fading puppy syndrome". The second litter I lost to a bad batch of Happy Jack's puppy dewormer.

When I advertised the first litter, I had dozens of calls, nearly all of which were from idiots looking for fighters and not afraid to straight up ask for one. I had managed to re-home (after the first two weeks I gave up asking for money) that litter to some seemingly descent families.

I thought I'd have better luck with the second litter as the sire and damn were outstanding with very heavy Sorrel blood.

Only ONE person responded to the adds, and he was a college student looking for an image.

The other six puppies were given away to friends and family.

Now, I could have made a killing if I had been base enough to sell to whoever offerred, but the quality of people wanting to buy was atrocious.

The hell if I'm going to sell a dog to a thug dog fighter or to image seekers or even to well meaning folks who have no understanding of the responsibility that comes with this breed.

This is not a situation that is unique to my area, it is the same everywhere.

If you are willing to sell your pups to anyone with the cash, then you might be able to move a few puppies. IF you do this, you are a straight up ass, because clearly you care nothing for the dogs you bring into the world, nor do you care about the future of the breed as a whole. Each time one of these dogs is placed in the wrong hands (and the wrong hands faaaaaaaaaaaar outnumber the right ones when these breds are involved) you are putting another black mark on the reputation and future of this breed.

The puppies you sell, unless you are incredibly carefull about who you sell to, will end up as fighters, or abandoned when their new owners don't want to deal with them anymore, or they wind up as a headline when their idiot owners allow them to do something bad.

Dogs are not a commodity. They are living creatures. It's not like building a table and selling it on Craigslist. WHO you give your puppies too determines the rest of that pup's life. It is a breeder's responsibility to ensure that each pup that he brings into the world is safe, happy, and cared for.

You have a much better chance at finding good homes for pups if your dogs have been worked in some sport or shown, as the knowledgable, responsible bully owners look for pups coming from breeders like this.

The only folks you will attract with untested stock (registered or not) are other idiots with plans of breeding for money, dog fighters, image seekers, and individuals that don't know any better. Those that don't know better, probably don't know much about anything to do with the breed, or they wouldn't be dumb enough to buy from a person like you in the first place.

To conclude, if you do what you are planning to do how you are planning to do it, you might as well hand customers a gun, and charge them $400 to shoot a pup, as anything you produced will likely be dead by the time they would reach maturity anyway. Either dead, or another headline bringing down BSL on all our heads.

i appreciate you sharing your story and experiences with me and i these are some things that i have already been thinking about and planning for. after typing all of that i dont really feel like you actually read my post but thats ok.

[WumibBesowe]

first, he has a good pedigree. hes been checked out by a vet and is perfectly healthy. the dog is full of drive and energy, even more than most puppies i have seen his age. he has taken to training exceptionally well. judging by his size and build he SHOULD easily meet conformation standards for those interested in that sort of thing. not to mention hes a damn good looking dog.

Unless a dog is proven in some way, which there's no way a pup that young can be, you don't know if you have a dog worthy of breeding.

Do everyone a favor and don't become another backyard breeder.

[MipRippoomamn]

So you just created this thread to put it into our faces?
Good luck with your endeavors, I just hope you realize that papers do not make the dog.

actually i am very familiar with that line of thinking and i agree. in fact, the only real dogman that ive known never registered any of his dogs and back when they used to fight dogs around here the winners came from his yard.

i did not create this thread to rub it in anyones face, i am not a petty person and i have no time for things like that. i just hoped to learn something new.

i appreciate you wishing me well, thanks.

[WumibBesowe]

well, if you read my post its pretty obvious i do plan on breeding and i thought i was clear on what ill be basing my breeding program on. pedigree does have something to do with breeding since it gives you a better idea of what you can expect from your dogs. as far as looks go, i wont breed for looks but, looks do influence people when it comes to dogs quite a bit.

You say your PUPPY will be a good conformation standard and then go on to say you're not breeding for "looks."

Do we have a "boggles the mind" smiley here?

[MipRippoomamn]

Unless a dog is proven in some way, which there's no way a pup that young can be, you don't know if you have a dog worthy of breeding.

Do everyone a favor and don't become another backyard breeder.

actually if i am wrong about my male dog and he turns out to NOT live up to his potential then i wont breed him and i will seek out a better dog. as for doing everyone a favor and not becoming another BYB, i feel that im already doing that.

---------- Post added at 09:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 PM ----------

You say your PUPPY will be a good conformation standard and then go on to say you're not breeding for "looks."

Do we have a "boggles the mind" smiley here?

i also said that he will be a good conformation standard "for those interested in that sort of thing". looks dont mean much to me.

[gooseCile]

ive seen many people online who criticize people for breeding dogs that arent show champions or weight pulling champions and i want to put it out there that i have ZERO interest in attending or having any of my dogs compete in any shows. dog shows and events just dont suit me. This says it all right here for me. And yes, I did read your post. I'm here to clarify.
HOW are you going to prove your dogs worthy if you don't work them in a testable arena? What exactly are you breeding for?

and breed what i consider to be a more traditional, TRUER version of the APBT to not only help keep the breed alive, This breed is already being kept alive (barely) by people FAR more experienced than you with dogs FAR more proven than yours.

Please do us all a favor and don't breed. You're mind's already set on it, but I really hope you change it.