[duceswild]

I'm SiNiST3R, my best friend is my Dog Travis Barker. He is a Brindle Blue Nose, but I'm not sure what I can call him.

You see his Daddy is a Blue Nose Brindle Bully. Very Short and WIDE body & head, busting with muscles, a nice brown/red/black Brindle. I have no Pics of the Father (Twist), but this is exactly what he looks like only his father was more muscular.



His Momma was an APBT white with brown/red/black brindle spots. With a sort of spotted cow belly.

Here is a pic of the Brother and the Momma (sorry it's the best I have)



The Guy up close is Biggie, hes about 10 months in the pic. His momma Diamond is in the back ground.

Travis is 15 months now, and the best word to describe him is HUGE, he is sitting around 100 pounds (I'm Not kidding) and still getting thicker.

I have people think he has Bull Massive in him, but I know his parent very well and both are pure blood, but of different gene pools. I don't know much, but the mother is a registered APBT & the father a Pure Bread Bully, to the best of my knowledge there are differences in the gene pools.

Here is is at 6 weeks when I took him home.



Here is a Pic of Travis Last year, he was 7 months old at the time.



What can some people who have a larger knowledge of the Breed tell me about my Dog.

[molaunterbizone]

Does he have any papers?

Going by the weight and what you said about the Dad, sounds like he might be an American Bully, but might just your common mixed breed dog.

[goldcigarettes]

Bull Massive you mean bull mastiff? what exactly do you want to know about your dog? like what breed he is?

---------- Post added at 10:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 PM ----------

the dad reminds me of mastiff mix at my work/shelter.

i agree with CHJ that he could be a Ambully. or mastiff mix. i have no idea. but he is adorable

[duceswild]

The father has I believe was something like a Gotti bloodline if that makes sense.

The mother all I got was APBT.

Sorry about the mix up, I'm not really big in the know (Bull Mastiff)

I'm curious if I can call him a Pit Bull or APBT, or AM Staff, I'm pretty sure the mother nulls out Bully.

But does his mixed blood line make him a Mut or what, I'm a really Dummy about this stuff, I'm a car guy who loves his Dog quite a bit even though I might be a dum dum about Dogs.

I take good care of him,and I am open to learning all I can to always improve the care I give him.

[goldcigarettes]

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...-pitbull-4.jpg

is this your boy? sorry i thought he was the sire/dad. lol

[duceswild]

is this your boy? sorry i thought he was the sire/dad. lol

Thats a mirror of the Father

this is My Boy Travis (Last Summer @ 7 months)



---------- Post added at 10:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 PM ----------

Is there any Staffordshire blood to speak of, and how are the AMPB & Am Bully's related to the British Staffordshire Bull Terriers? (Please don't hate me for using the wrong terms or names Im learning, or at least trying to learn)

[lalffibra]

staffordshire bull terrier,nope.
pit bull,maybe somewhere
ambully,on the right track
mutt,sure is
purebred, def. not a purebred anything

bluenose,that's not what i see,i see a black nose,and color has nothing to do with anything,if you got the dog based on the color/nose color,you really don't need a pit bull or bull dog breed

[duceswild]

staffordshire bull terrier,nope.
pit bull,maybe somewhere
ambully,on the right track
mutt,sure is
purebred, def. not a purebred anything

bluenose,that's not what i see,i see a black nose,and color has nothing to do with anything,if you got the dog based on the color/nose color,you really don't need a pit bull or bull dog breed

I didn't get the Dog because of the nose color, that's crazy. I actually got the guy for free, as a gift. The daddy was said to be a blue nose, I know that doesn't mean squat, I'm just trying to give as much info as I can. Ill get a more recent pic of him up soon as I get my cam.

Ambully is that not a "type" of Pitbull? If not where is the separation? (I'm learning)

[hHwJ229h]

I'd just call him a bully mix.

He's cute.

Welcome to the forum. I'd recommend reading all the stickies. It's a good crash course in bully breeds.


"Pit Bull" is a general term for over 20 different breeds of short haired, medium to large size muscular dogs (includes American Pit Bull Terriers, Bull Terriers, American Bulldogs, boxers, mastiffs, American Staffordshire Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, etc.)

[goldcigarettes]

i agree with BULLY mix. just enjoy him. he's really cute, that i want to squish his face

[lalffibra]

no,pit bull is short for american pit bull terrier,others are just bull dog breeds

[duceswild]

Bully mix sounds right to me, Ive been reading up on them on these boards and his size matches up and the fathers owner said he was a Gotti, I didn't know what it meant, but I now have learned its a Bully bloodline.

I do love him, he is at my side at all times waiting for me to get home and loves to fall asleep with his head on my lap.

Hes getting better with his dog aggression, still working at it. He was unfortunately attacked when he was 7 months and since then has been very dog aggressive. While he was in the back yard a guy walking his 3 year old English Bull Terrier in the alley way wit no leash came along, his dog literally jumped the fence like it was nothing into my yard. He went right at Travis and tried to jump on his back from the side & a fight broke out. I did my best to split it up and got bit by the English Bull on my arm and hand, while the other guy just stood and watched. The fight ended with Travis clamped on the side of the English Bulls face just holding him not letting go. it took about 5 to 10 minutes to calm him down and get him to let go.

My primary concern was the 2 dogs health, I checked out Travis extensively & he was perfectly fine, not even a bite mark, but the English Bull was all white and took a few bites to the face. I brought the guy stuff to clean him up and disinfect the wounds.

NOW at this point I got mad, the situation could of been worse, but it was Bad enough, shit like this shouldn't happen, NEVER walk your dogs without a leash, especially if they can jump 4 & 1/2 foot fences. I kept my cool because his dog really got the bad end of the stick, thankfully Travis wasn't hurt at all.

However Travis was effected more then I originally thought. Since then he has become VERY aggressive. He used to be fine with strangers, but now I have to be on my toes at all times, if people talk to me or stare at him, he goes nuts like he is possessed, the sound that he makes is frightening and scary. It's embarrassing and makes me feel horrible. I can no longer take him to dog parks as if another dog growls at him or barks at him he goes like Rocky when the Bell rings. While he is fine when there is no barking at him or growling at him, but he likes to knock over small dogs and hold them down seemingly playful, but I can't take chances.

With me he is nothing but loving and eager to please, hes never snapped or even growled at me ever. He cries when I leave and howls at me from the window until I'm out of sight. Hes great with Close friends that have known him since he was a Pup, but it takes about 30min to introduce him to new people.

The reason I was searching out a good forum for Pit's is to learn more about my Dog, and learn what I can do to be a better Dog owner. I need help calming his aggression, he was very different before he was attacked, he spent a hour a day in a dog park, and loved to meet new people.

[goldcigarettes]

well make sure, you contact shon or purple for access to the AMbully section.

[duceswild]

well make sure, you contact shon or purple for access to the AMbully section.

Thanks WILL DO, just found out I don't got posting privs there (wow this board has some beautiful dogs)

[NikkitaZ]

Answer this for me: why would you take a known dog aggressive dog to a DOGPARK?!
that is just being awfully irresponsible, and asking for more Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) and even more apbt's and mixes killed.

NEVER TAKE AN APBT OR BULLY MIX TO THE DOGPARK!
in fact, never, EVER take any of your dogs, regardless of breed to a dogpark. it's NOT a good socialization opportunity, it's only good for your dog to catch some nasty diseases from other unknown dogs and get him into fights with other unknown dogs.

Now, Dog Aggression (DA) and Human Aggression (HA) have NOTHING to do with each other. They are worlds apart from one another.
One doesn't lead to the other, and especially NOT because your dog got into a fight with another dog.

there is something wrong with your dog, wether he is really HA, Fear Aggressive (FA) or very territorial,...
I'd suggest you to find a certified behaviorist and work from there.

HA is not tolerated in this breed (however, I would keep a HA dog if he didn't show any signs of aggression to the people that live with him), and if you still want to keep him, no more walks outside of the house, only playing & exercising in the yard, put him away EVERY time you have visit, putting up a WAY bigger fence, chainspot (because he could still easely jump a 8ft fence if he really wanted to etc etc
at least until you get a certified behaviorist that will tell you what exactly is wrong with your dog, and if it's workable or not, and then it will depend if you want to keep a dog that could cause much harm to your commutiny, and if you CAN own such a dog responsibly, without putting your community at risk of serious injury.

you won't fix his DA, if you don't want to invest time and manage it instead of waisting your time trying to "fix him", this is not the right breed for you.
he is not a bad dog because he is DA. he acts upon his natural breed instincts, just like a JRT isn't a bad dog because he'll kill all small game he can get to.

I'd also suggest you invest in a Breaking stick and learning how to use it, you now know how hard it is for them to let go of another dog.
a break stick will help you pry his jaws open to release the other dog once he got a grip and won't let go.

sent a PM to Colbydogs or to Zoe, they sell them (if I remember correctly )

[gusecrync]

Nice dog. My feeling is the Gotti dogs or whatever you want to call them are meant to look like oversized pitbulls, but are in fact mixed with large breed dogs, probably mastiff of some kind. Since the crossings they've refined the dogs into more "pitbull" looks. Now, by crossing in mastiffs (this is an assumption but most other bulldog breeds are more territorial and prone to guarding behavior) you have in fact instilled this guarding instinct into the dogs. This is not really a problem in itself as long as the owner knows what they have and take steps to ensure the dog is safe around people. This always includes socialization at an early age and continuing through adulthood. I cannot recommend taking him through a serious obedience course highly enough. I can almost guarantee a good trainer will be able to neutralize his wacky behavior to some degree, maybe even well enough no one will ever notice unless there is actually a threat to you.

Mind you, this theory is assuming the person you got the dog from was telling you the truth and was not lied to by the breeder of his dog. The female looks well enough like a normal apbt to make me think she probably is. The fact that the dog you pictured is so massively built and the head shape looks nothing like a "real" pitbull terrier makes me question the truth behind the Gotti line statement. People like to throw out names like they know what they're talking about, everybody knows this and once you learn a little bit you'll be able to spot the bullshit a mile away.

The dog aggression is going to be much harder to "train out" than the human aggression tendencies. Probably the best you're going to get is a semi reliable leave it command. If another dog is seriously challenging him all bets are off and you better be able to physically restrain him. This means you have to be on your guard all the time and make it your job to keep him out of trouble. The fact he didn't have a mark on him against the Bull terrier doesn't surprise me much. One of my old dogs completely rolled up and curred out a shar pei mix that outweighed her by about 25 pounds or so. It was an accident and was my fault basically, but to see someone's badass guard dog turn tail in terror after one solid bite from a wiry little dog is impressive, lol. Anyway, expect it, plan for it and do whatever you need to in order to mitigate the risk of an encounter. I think he looks cool, at least you don't have to worry about anybody fucking with you if you're walking him, lol. Good luck and get him into that obedience asap, he could make a super good dog.

[Crundaangerge]

If the first picture is the dad he looks to have a lot of Presa in him. I'd have to say you have a mutt and none of the pictures I can see have a blue nose anywhere.

[nuveem7070]

no,pit bull is short for American pit bull terrier,others are just bull dog breeds

well.. sort of... but not quite.. depends on who you are talking to...
when you and I say pit bull.. sure, we are using it as a short term for the American pit bull terrier.. however.. when the general public, the press, or law enforcement agencies use the term, they are including all the "dangerous" (in their mind) bully breeds... so whether we like it or not, the term pit bull, as it is most often used (we apbt owners are the minority here) can mean many different types of dogs...

[duceswild]

Answer this for me: why would you take a known dog aggressive dog to a DOGPARK?!
that is just being awfully irresponsible, and asking for more Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) and even more apbt's and mixes killed.

Answer this for me, Who said he was a "known aggressive" dog? If you noticed I explained he was NOT aggressive, and spent much time with other Dogs and in Dog Parks with NO AGGRESSIVE behavior, UNTIL he was attacked, and ONLY from that point on has he shown ANY aggression. OBVIOUSLY I don't take him to dog parks anymore and havn't since hes shown D/A....

The way you talk is extremely condescending and judgmental, your making an incredible amount of assumptions. Assumptions are the mother of all fuck ups.

NEVER TAKE AN APBT OR BULLY MIX TO THE DOGPARK!
in fact, never, EVER take any of your dogs, regardless of breed to a dogpark. it's NOT a good socialization opportunity, it's only good for your dog to catch some nasty diseases from other unknown dogs and get him into fights with other unknown dogs.

Thanks for your opinion....

Now, Dog Aggression (DA) and Human Aggression (HA) have NOTHING to do with each other. They are worlds apart from one another.
One doesn't lead to the other, and especially NOT because your dog got into a fight with another dog.

Again "I explained he was NOT aggressive, and spent much time with other Dogs and in Dog Parks with NO AGGRESSIVE behavior, UNTIL he was attacked, and ONLY from that point on has he shown ANY aggression."

In my book 2 + 2 = 4 even though I realize its more complex then a simple equation.

Either way, I never said one led to another, or is the cause of the other, while the Fight seemed to be the trigger.

there is something wrong with your dog, wether he is really HA, Fear Aggressive (FA) or very territorial,...
I'd suggest you to find a certified behaviorist and work from there.

There is NOTHING wrong with my dog, please be more respectful and chose your word with more diplomacy.

I get the positive message of your post, I just don't see why I have to sniff it out of the condescending tone.

HA is not tolerated in this breed (however, I would keep a HA dog if he didn't show any signs of aggression to the people that live with him), and if you still want to keep him, no more walks outside of the house, only playing & exercising in the yard, put him away EVERY time you have visit, putting up a WAY bigger fence, chainspot (because he could still easely jump a 8ft fence if he really wanted to etc etc
at least until you get a certified behaviorist that will tell you what exactly is wrong with your dog, and if it's workable or not, and then it will depend if you want to keep a dog that could cause much harm to your commutiny, and if you CAN own such a dog responsibly, without putting your community at risk of serious injury.

His H/A is ONLY with Strangers, and They either need to approach me or stare at him to trigger him.

My Boy has NEVER shown any aggression to me, or the people close to me that hes known all his life, Never even a growl at anybody...

Again there is NOTHING wrong with my Dog, I know I need help addressing this issue, I wouldn't of mentioned it if I wasn't interested in getting some, why do you need to be so condescending when its obvious your trying to help?

I wouldn't be surprised if you get into plenty of E-wars because of the tone you have when talking to people. Something that is a problem online, people act like they have a bigger set then they really do.

His D/A only seems to be when challenged, WOW this seams horribly out of character of the breed....

you won't fix his DA, if you don't want to invest time and manage it instead of waisting your time trying to "fix him", this is not the right breed for you.

Who are you talking to? Do you think you know me? You really need to check yourself, your getting mouthy with your judgmental condensation tone, Don't EVER talk to me like this again.

he is not a bad dog because he is DA. he acts upon his natural breed instincts, just like a JRT isn't a bad dog because he'll kill all small game he can get to.

Who are you talking to? Who the fuck said he was a bad dog? Your on my last nerve at this point, holly crap how high do you think the perch your sitting on is? Can you still see us regular folk down here?

First off you know NOTHING about me or My Dog 4-real. Your making a lot of assumptions and talking to me like I'm some 17 year old baseball cap backwards Hip hop fan who got a Dog because its a "PIT" to be a Bad Ass. Bro I'm a Badass without the Dog, Id love to get more personal with you, but I'm not here for that.

I feel you treat people the way you want to be treated. Ive been respectful, but you have not, Now I got NO respect for you, even though you may deserve some from others, you deserve none from me. I give respect until disrespect is earned, you earned disrespect by being disrespectful and arrogant about yourself, your credentials mean $hit, if your too much of a dick, nobody cares...

I'd also suggest you invest in a Breaking stick and learning how to use it, you now know how hard it is for them to let go of another dog.
a break stick will help you pry his jaws open to release the other dog once he got a grip and won't let go.

I'll look into it, sounds like it may be helpful.

sent a PM to Colbydogs or to Zoe, they sell them (if I remember correctly )

I will. Thanks for the Post, please just try to be less condescending & Judgemental. You may not of meant it that way but thats where you need to work on your diplomacy and HOW you say things, you can have good intentions and a good message, but your delivery system might piss people off, then they don't get the good message your trying to convey, they just get mad and think your a Dick. If there is any point to you taking the time in typing a post then you want the message your tying to deliver to be received, well you get a lot further with sugar then you do with salt.

---------- Post added at 10:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 PM ----------

If the first picture is the dad he looks to have a lot of Presa in him. I'd have to say you have a mutt and none of the pictures I can see have a blue nose anywhere.

These are all Pics of the same Dog



---------- Post added at 10:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 PM ----------

This is NOT his father as I mentioned next to the Pic, its a Pic of a Dog that looks almost identical, Blue nose means nothing to me, I love my Dog for his Character & the connection we have had since the day I first picked him up.

---------- Post added at 11:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 PM ----------

Nice dog. My feeling is the Gotti dogs or whatever you want to call them are meant to look like oversized pitbulls, but are in fact mixed with large breed dogs, probably mastiff of some kind. Since the crossings they've refined the dogs into more "pitbull" looks. Now, by crossing in mastiffs (this is an assumption but most other bulldog breeds are more territorial and prone to guarding behavior) you have in fact instilled this guarding instinct into the dogs. This is not really a problem in itself as long as the owner knows what they have and take steps to ensure the dog is safe around people. This always includes socialization at an early age and continuing through adulthood. I cannot recommend taking him through a serious obedience course highly enough. I can almost guarantee a good trainer will be able to neutralize his wacky behavior to some degree, maybe even well enough no one will ever notice unless there is actually a threat to you.

What would I be looking for in my area, the only service to speak of I know of was JR's Dog training & I've heard nothing but bad stuff from them (I heard they rely on shock collars) Nothing Factual.

But Part of my Problem is I Live in Montreal Quebec & I'm English speaking, everything here has the be french first, so services like this sometimes get lost in translation to us English folk.

Mind you, this theory is assuming the person you got the dog from was telling you the truth and was not lied to by the breeder of his dog. The female looks well enough like a normal apbt to make me think she probably is. The fact that the dog you pictured is so massively built and the head shape looks nothing like a "real" pitbull terrier makes me question the truth behind the Gotti line statement. People like to throw out names like they know what they're talking about, everybody knows this and once you learn a little bit you'll be able to spot the bullshit a mile away.

The picture of the Father type is not his actual father but a Similar looking Dog, more general to the set of pics as apposed to the originally posted pic alone.

I'm doing my best to get my hands on some actual Pics of his father.

The dog aggression is going to be much harder to "train out" than the human aggression tendencies. Probably the best you're going to get is a semi reliable leave it command. If another dog is seriously challenging him all bets are off and you better be able to physically restrain him. This means you have to be on your guard all the time and make it your job to keep him out of trouble. The fact he didn't have a mark on him against the Bull terrier doesn't surprise me much. One of my old dogs completely rolled up and curred out a shar pei mix that outweighed her by about 25 pounds or so. It was an accident and was my fault basically, but to see someone's badass guard dog turn tail in terror after one solid bite from a wiry little dog is impressive, lol. Anyway, expect it, plan for it and do whatever you need to in order to mitigate the risk of an encounter. I think he looks cool, at least you don't have to worry about anybody fucking with you if you're walking him, lol. Good luck and get him into that obedience asap, he could make a super good dog.

I tell you I'm on my toes at all times, I live in the City so people come from everywhere and tinny purse Dogs are all over the place with there heads poking out of their Prada outfits barking like their set is 2 times 2 big.

I feel like I already have a great Dog, I think hes the best Dog on the Planet bar none He loves me even though I'm far from perfect, so I take him as he is. I don't ignore its MY responsibility to be a better owner and address what it is I need to do to help him be less aggressive.

I appreciate ALL the great positive people here trying to help others who may not be as knowledgeable as they are.

---------- Post added 05-18-2010 at 12:00 AM ---------- Previous post was 05-17-2010 at 11:29 PM ----------



These are all Pics of the same Dog


The Dog in the Pictures is Voo Doo Black

Voo Doo Black
Bloodline: Gotty
Color: Brindle
Sire: Gorrilla Black
Dam: Brenda

"
Voo Doo has Gotty, Black Ace and other well know names running through his pedigree. Voo Doo is a huge bully male. Short, wide and bully are the three words that explain him best."

[gusecrync]

Well where do you live? Do some digging through some of the performance dog training forums and try to locate someone with a good reputation and results. Look up Michael Ellis and the Leerburg kennels forums. I bet they can help you find someone appropriate to your needs close to you. I really like their training approach on some things and would absolutely let my dog go through their courses. However they themselves are probably not a realistic option unless you're looking to spend quite a lot of money. The websites they run have tons of useful information for free and very good DVD's for sale, I own 3 myself and they're very informative and clear cut.

I have no idea who JR dog training is but I would not immediately lump all trainers who use electric collars as bad. I use one with my dog and it is extremely effective when used CORRECTLY. That's a huge point. Any training tool can be abused and unfortunately that one is about the easiest to abuse, however the way I use it is purely an attention getting mechanism. I used it as a real correction exactly once when my dog was refusing to obey my command to "leave it" when confronting (aka going apeshit) at another dog that was safely confined in it's own yard. Even then at high drive, about half power was needed and since then the dog doesn't refuse that command ever. He knew what he was supposed to do, blatantly refused to do it, and was corrected for that refusal. IMO this is the only reason to ever use one (and it is usually only done at the lowest setting that gets the slightest reaction from the dog). It didn't shut him down to the point he was cowed and refused to come to me or refuse play or take food reward, it simply let him know I was not going to let him continue on like that without a negative result. If you see someone shocking the crap out of dogs when teaching commands don't even consider them. Anyway enough of that little detour...

I also understood completely well the dog in the picture was not his father. I was going off the fact you mentioned his father looked exactly like it but with larger muscles.