[SmuffNuSMaxqh]

There seem to be two schools of thought looks versus papers. In this case what about those who dont look like an APBT but have the "papers" but not temperament of an APBT. IE- if a dog was 120 lbs spotted but had papers and was HA is that a pitbull? or is the dog who is lean with short fawn hair around 50 lbs but is DA without papers a pitbull? I just fail to see the reason for the division in the two schools.

Maybe it is the resentment of all bully breeds being called pitbulls, none the less many bully breeds have similar temperaments(DA, love people, hard working,etc) and suffer the same discrimination. Maybe it is the fear that if all bully breeds are compiled in one group those who are not APBT will be called pitbulls in the news for anything negative they do, but in the same token then should all the mutts who complete CGC, are great with kids, are police dogs, etc be called mutts rather than giving the "pitbull" a good name?

I guess I am just annoyed with the "purebred" APBT owners sometimes giving mutt owners shit about defining mutts as mutts but wanting the positive notoriety yet deny anything negative.

I have seen too many dogs with papers who look nothing like an APBT and have horrible temperaments AND too many mutts who look like pitbulls with great temperaments....so where does that leave communities like this? Should we define a pitbull as an APBT with papers? An APBT with papers who is DA? A dog who looks like an APBT with a great temperament? A dog who looks like an APBT who is DA? Or should all dogs who "look" like an APBT even if they are HA be considered pitbulls?

I am afraid there is no answer(even the UKC considers a few breeds as pitbulls) but I would like to hear opinions

[penpizdes]

a "pitbull" is any type of dog that resembles a bully breed. IE- APBT, AST, American Bulldog, American Bully,
This does not mean that an APBT is considered all of these.
An APBT is just that. A standard of a "pit bull" category. I think I am explaining this to where you may be able to understand it.
Personally, I dont like calling my American Bully anything but that. To me, American Bullies are NOT AS (DA), therefore, I do not want my American Bully classified as an APBT. My choice and my opinion. I'm sure the APBT lovers don't want the American Bully to be called APBT because they are out of standard and are "big sloppy hogs". LOL I have heard it, but that is their opinion. I personally do not want my dog classified as a killer, or aggressive, when they are not, or are even a hair less than that of an APBT. But please do not take this the wrong way APBT lovers, and I also love the APBT just as much as the American Bully, but personally I do believe the American Bullies are less DA or aggressive in all ways. Please feel free to ask any questions pertaining to my post.

---------- Post added at 08:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 PM ----------

But, on another note, that I forgot to add. A dog without papers in a mutt to me. As well as a poorly bred "papered" dog is a mutt. But, without knowing the truth, people can also call the American Bully a mutt. As some people believe WHOLE HEARTEDLY that the American Bully was mix bred to create the now AB.

[SmuffNuSMaxqh]

a "pitbull" is any type of dog that resembles a bully breed. IE- APBT, AST, American Bulldog, American Bully,
This does not mean that an APBT is considered all of these.
An APBT is just that. A standard of a "pit bull" category. I think I am explaining this to where you may be able to understand it.
Personally, I dont like calling my American Bully anything but that. To me, American Bullies are NOT AS (DA), therefore, I do not want my American Bully classified as an APBT. My choice and my opinion. I'm sure the APBT lovers don't want the American Bully to be called APBT because they are out of standard and are "big sloppy hogs". LOL I have heard it, but that is their opinion. I personally do not want my dog classified as a killer, or aggressive, when they are not, or are even a hair less than that of an APBT. But please do not take this the wrong way APBT lovers, and I also love the APBT just as much as the American Bully, but personally I do believe the American Bullies are less DA or aggressive in all ways. Please feel free to ask any questions pertaining to my post.

---------- Post added at 08:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 PM ----------

But, on another note, that I forgot to add. A dog without papers in a mutt to me. As well as a poorly bred "papered" dog is a mutt. But, without knowing the truth, people can also call the American Bully a mutt. As some people believe WHOLE HEARTEDLY that the American Bully was mix bred to create the now AB.

So a pitbull is any of the bully breeds the UKC considers a pitbull not just the APBT?

I dont know how I feel about it- I find myself agreeing Irie is a pitbull but never said Tonka was, only because he showed signs of non-APBT temperament and did not look like an APBT. I dont consider american bulldogs as pitbulls...I have not decided my opinion on amstaffs or ambullies.

Currently I personally dont consider them as pitbulls to the general public I try to generally specify but if a dog looks like a pitbull I will say pitbull mix...whether or not it is an amstaff, ambully, american bulldog, or any other mix I will call a dog that LOOKS AND adheres to the pitbull temperament of an APBT a pitbull mix.

This does not mean a dog that looks like an amstaff would be considered a pitbull mix, but rather I would call them an amstaff mix....unfortunately in the world of rescues/shelters it is impossible to just say the dog is a "mutt" you must list it as some breed maybe that is where my thought process comes from. This is likely a flawed system but I should say regardless of the breed mentioned I will give them the general pitbull information because I know the public will call them a pitbull so they should be treated as such...period.

[Aw1HhC0m]

Are you saying American Bulldogs are pit bull mixes? Because they most certainly are their own breed.

Some people have infused APBT into the breed, but the lines of those dogs are known to be such.

[penpizdes]

Correct, but when it comes to laws these days,,.. The general public will see any other the bully looking breeds, esp. if the dog has the word BULL in its name as a pit bull. True facts. I know American Bulldogs are a breed of their own, but now a days they all fall into one category which sucks.

---------- Post added at 09:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 PM ----------

And it doesn't just have to be the UKC, ... It can be AKC, UKC, ADBA, and now the ABKC, AADR, ABBA, and other bully breed registries.

[ZonaPutaX]

A Pit Bull is an American Pit Bull Terrier.A breed that has had a written set of standards since 1898.Granted some members of the breed will be slightly "out" of standard,the common characteristics should be present.

I don't subscribe to the group/type/umbrella theory.

[Aw1HhC0m]

In NY, I haven't seen anyone call American Bulldogs pit bulls or refer to them as such. I have also not seen them classified as pit bulls in bans, but as their own breed. Especially the "bully" American Bulldogs... No way in hell can they be confused or classified as pit bulls. Now, when you are talking about ignoramuses? It's still a stretch. American Bulldogs are typically mostly white and weigh around 100lbs, much larger and more substantial an animal than a pit bull or pit mix. Even the 70lb-80lb bulldogs, which is a size that I prefer, I don't believe look enough like pit bulls. However, I have a more critical eye to these breeds because AB's are "my breed."

Anywho, I don't think AB's are included in the "pit bull" generalization.

[penpizdes]

ok, when I say AB i am meaning American Bully.... When you say it you mean American Bulldog. Lets just make that clear. ... I have heard of bans on any dogs that have the word BULL in their name. Hence, American BULLdog....

[SmuffNuSMaxqh]

In NY, I haven't seen anyone call American Bulldogs pit bulls or refer to them as such. I have also not seen them classified as pit bulls in bans, but as their own breed. Especially the "bully" American Bulldogs... No way in hell can they be confused or classified as pit bulls. Now, when you are talking about ignoramuses? It's still a stretch. American Bulldogs are typically mostly white and weigh around 100lbs, much larger and more substantial an animal than a pit bull or pit mix. Even the 70lb-80lb bulldogs, which is a size that I prefer, I don't believe look enough like pit bulls. However, I have a more critical eye to these breeds because AB's are "my breed."

Anywho, I don't think AB's are included in the "pit bull" generalization.

When I lived in an area with BSL Tonka was treated as a pitbull but he looked very classic american bulldog but also kinda like the colby dogs too so maybe thats why? Honestly I think it depends on what the dog has done to what it is called, that woman who left her child in the kennel of american bulldog and it killed the child her dogs were called pitbulls at first

[PharmaDrMan]

I believe that the answers to what is a true APBT are becoming more vague every few years. With all the paper hanging, BYBs, overbreeding of pets, misnomers when it comes to genetics-linebreeding-inbreeding, Dog Shows (performance vs looks) ect...we will never get back to the true APBT except in name.

There will be a minority that are careful about breeding and will do thier best to keep the APBT as close to thier past as possible. The rest will continue to breed based solely on conformation or weight pulling ect. and will claim they have a purebred APBT...

Maybe that is better for tha breed in the long run since I truely believe that most people have no idea and should not own an APBT as it should be...

[SmuffNuSMaxqh]

I believe that the answers to what is a true APBT are becoming more vague every few years. With all the paper hanging, BYBs, overbreeding of pets, misnomers when it comes to genetics-linebreeding-inbreeding, Dog Shows (performance vs looks) ect...we will never get back to the true APBT except in name.

There will be a minority that are careful about breeding and will do thier best to keep the APBT as close to thier past as possible. The rest will continue to breed based solely on conformation or weight pulling ect. and will claim they have a purebred APBT...

Maybe that is better for tha breed in the long run since I truely believe that most people have no idea and should not own an APBT as it should be...

Great point, that was one thing I was thinking about when I made this post. An APBT used to be solely based on temperament (meaning fighting skill), looks came second so in reality I guess the actual "genetic" makeup of a dog didnt matter just that it could fight well.

[Aw1HhC0m]

Luckily, a handful of bulldogs are still being bred based on this fact. The hunters breed bulldogs that hunt, and they're just "bulldogs." Sometimes Curs are mixed in, sometimes pits, but they're just damn good bulldogs. Those are the best kind.

I took in a Hurricane Katrina foster a couple years back. He looked like a classic white bulldog of the south. Moderate size, docked tail, big 'ol head. He had scars like he may have fought or hunted, probably both. He is the BEST damn dog around. He was found on Bourbon street in the aftermath of the tragedy, saw and experienced hell like you and I couldn't even dream of, and he's a solid family dog now.

[PharmaDrMan]

Actually structure (including size and proportion) and temperament along with "gameness" were the criteria for breeders that understood the APBT. So looks (in a way) were important for performance reasons.

[Sdinozes]

A Pit Bull is an American Pit Bull Terrier.A breed that has had a written set of standards since 1898.Granted some members of the breed will be slightly "out" of standard,the common characteristics should be present.

I don't subscribe to the group/type/umbrella theory.

100% agree.....the ONLY pit bull is the AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER !
No other dog has those two words in thier name....DO NOT conform to umbrella terms, WE as APBT owners need to stand our ground firm as to what dog is and what is not a "Pit Bull".

[ARKLqAZ6]

U can get technical, but when the hit comes down, the apbt takes it, no matter if its a bull terrier or amstaff. When non-dog people says pitbull, they mean apbt. And i had a mutt, the best guard dog i ever had. I respect mutts and aint hybrid vigor an awesome thing sometimes.

[Barryrich]

a "pitbull" is any type of dog that resembles a bully breed. IE- APBT, AST, American Bulldog, American Bully,
This does not mean that an APBT is considered all of these.
An APBT is just that. A standard of a "pit bull" category. I think I am explaining this to where you may be able to understand it.
Personally, I dont like calling my American Bully anything but that. To me, American Bullies are NOT AS (DA), therefore, I do not want my American Bully classified as an APBT. My choice and my opinion. I'm sure the APBT lovers don't want the American Bully to be called APBT because they are out of standard and are "big sloppy hogs". LOL I have heard it, but that is their opinion. I personally do not want my dog classified as a killer, or aggressive, when they are not, or are even a hair less than that of an APBT. But please do not take this the wrong way APBT lovers, and I also love the APBT just as much as the American Bully, but personally I do believe the American Bullies are less DA or aggressive in all ways. Please feel free to ask any questions pertaining to my post.

---------- Post added at 08:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 PM ----------

But, on another note, that I forgot to add. A dog without papers in a mutt to me. As well as a poorly bred "papered" dog is a mutt. But, without knowing the truth, people can also call the American Bully a mutt. As some people believe WHOLE HEARTEDLY that the American Bully was mix bred to create the now AB.

I agree!!

[Mjypksun]

I believe that the answers to what is a true APBT are becoming more vague every few years. With all the paper hanging, BYBs, overbreeding of pets, misnomers when it comes to genetics-linebreeding-inbreeding, Dog Shows (performance vs looks) ect...we will never get back to the true APBT except in name.

There will be a minority that are careful about breeding and will do thier best to keep the APBT as close to thier past as possible. The rest will continue to breed based solely on conformation or weight pulling ect. and will claim they have a purebred APBT...

Maybe that is better for tha breed in the long run since I truely believe that most people have no idea and should not own an APBT as it should be...

i have to disagree with you 100% about you saying that we will never get back to the true APBT. we still have it . it hasnt gone anywhere. it resides where we have gamebred lines. true and tested. people need to stop getting and breeding mutts. and the ambully thats another story.. to each is own when it comes to that ...

[Barryrich]

i have to disagree with you 100% about you saying that we will never get back to the true APBT. we still have it . it hasnt gone anywhere. it resides where we have gamebred lines. true and tested. people need to stop getting and breeding mutts. and the ambully thats another story.. to each is own when it comes to that ...

What is your opinion on AmBullies?

[Mjypksun]

What is your opinion on AmBullies?

as i said to each is own. i like a working apbt. there is no place for an ambully for me is all. most we see are mutts and if not they are out of shape and not proportioned correctly. most to not look right ,nor do they look like they are worthy of working. jmo

[fuesquemill]

100% agree.....the ONLY pit bull is the AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER !
No other dog has those two words in thier name....DO NOT conform to umbrella terms, WE as APBT owners need to stand our ground firm as to what dog is and what is not a "Pit Bull".

EXACTLY!

To me, only an AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER, is a ''pit bull''.

An American Staffordshire Terrier is an ''am staff''.

A Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a ''staffy bull''.

An American Bully is a new ''designer breed'' much like a ''labradoodle'' IMO, essentially a mix.

Anything with an unknown heritage is simpley that, a mystery and a guess at best.

---------- Post added at 04:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:42 PM ----------

Anyone else find it funny that Bostonitis spelled ''pit bull'' wrong in the title. Sorry girl! My son pointed it out as it's his big pet peeve and it just seemed funny, with the topic and all.