[ArrereGarhync]

So I'm watching now and they rescued two emanciated pitbulls. The vet checked one over and siad she was anemic and old with underlying issues, euthanized. She checks the second one over and says hes from fighting stock and unadoptable - euthanize. Now if that was a lab or golden they would have saved that dog. And how do they KNOW they are from fighting stock withouth temperment testing ect?

If HA is differant than DA why are dogs that may have been fought unadoptable?

[invasuant]

The Michigan Humane Society euthanizes these dogs because it is a liability to place them. They do NOT have the resources to properly screen the homes they place these dogs into. I think, much though I hate to see these dogs die, it is a much more humane and honorable death then being put in a home that will do this again and again.

You also have to realize, these shows are done for sensationalism. There's a LOT of editing and poofing up a show to give it the appeal that folks want to watch - just like newspapers and their "pit bull attack" stories.

(P.S. I'm a resident who's done a lot of work with this shelter and they DO put dogs in rescue situations IF they're available. Almost every single APBT rescue in MI is packed to the gills and often overflowing.)

[MichaelfromSpace]

The Michigan Humane Society euthanizes these dogs because it is a liability to place them. They do NOT have the resources to properly screen the homes they place these dogs into. I think, much though I hate to see these dogs die, it is a much more humane and honorable death then being put in a home that will do this again and again.

I agree shadowwolf. If the dogs are placed and then returned to the pound because of their high needs, and then placed again and brought back, that is no life for any dog. IMO

[Slonopotam845]

So I'm watching now and they rescued two emanciated pitbulls. The vet checked one over and siad she was anemic and old with underlying issues, euthanized. She checks the second one over and says hes from fighting stock and unadoptable - euthanize. Now if that was a lab or golden they would have saved that dog. And how do they KNOW they are from fighting stock withouth temperment testing ect?

If HA is differant than DA why are dogs that may have been fought unadoptable?

I am in Australia so have no idea about the show or anything BUT Fighting Stock is usually 'assumed' depending on the amount and type of scars/wounds the dogs have that are connected with fighting.

Normal (non-fighting) dogs don't usually tend to get the scars etc that fighting dogs have. Especially damage to the head, mouth/ears/nose and front legs.

Temperament Testing does NOT show fighting stock. It may positively identify SOME but not all.
Alot of Fighting dogs are generally HA as well as DA.
Although they may be sweet as until you smack them or a kids pulls its ears.
Someone adopting a fighting dog of any breed is still dangerous, whether it be HA or DA.

[noingenah]

Fighting line dogs are bred specifically not to be HA so I dont know where you are getting this they are fine until some kid pulls their ears and then the snap bs. That is just the same type of misinformation that causes these dogs to be put down without a chance in the first place. Also it is not fair to say that they can't be adopted because they are DA and high energy when the same shelters adopt out other dogs with the same traits aslong as they are not apbt.

[ArrereGarhync]

So I guess I'm confused. Michael Vicks dogs were all fighitng dogs correct but some have been adopted out???

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Also if pitbulls are seized from a fighting situation are all usually euthanized even the younge dogs say 6 monthes?? and dogs without any scarring?

[EspanaCamsInfo]

Alot of Fighting dogs are generally HA as well as DA.
Although they may be sweet as until you smack them or a kids pulls its ears.
Someone adopting a fighting dog of any breed is still dangerous, whether it be HA or DA.

No, a lot of them are not generally HA - you are way off.

[lkastonidwedsrer]

The Vick dogs were taken into a rescue that had the time, money, and educated people to work with them. This is not always the case for local Humane Societies and ABPT rescues. Many people may think they're doing the right thing, when they could be making it worse - Many people within local Humane Societies are volunteers and are not fully aware of how to deal with possibly aggressive dogs.

I am a resident who lives not far from Detroit - I cross over 8 Mile and I'm there. I go down the street to a local pet store, and the "for sale" board is littered with ads for puppies and studs available - all of which have been bred for an obvious purpose. I've even taken my dog into this store, and have been confronted with aggressive, unaltered males. This is the sad truth of the area. And even though we fight to prevent BSL, part of me agrees that it's safer for the dogs, shelters, and rescues if some of these dogs were euthanized, instead of being handled incorrectly or placed into unsafe homes.

So I guess I'm confused. Michael Vicks dogs were all fighitng dogs correct but some have been adopted out???

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Also if pitbulls are seized from a fighting situation are all usually euthanized even the younge dogs say 6 monthes?? and dogs without any scarring?

[EspanaCamsInfo]

The Vick dogs were taken into a rescue that had the time, money, and educated people to work with them. This is not always the case for local Humane Societies and ABPT rescues. Many people may think they're doing the right thing, when they could be making it worse - Many people within local Humane Societies are volunteers and are not fully aware of how to deal with possibly aggressive dogs.

I am a resident who lives not far from Detroit - I cross over 8 Mile and I'm there. I go down the street to a local pet store, and the "for sale" board is littered with ads for puppies and studs available - all of which have been bred for an obvious purpose. I've even taken my dog into this store, and have been confronted with aggressive, unaltered males. This is the sad truth of the area. And even though we fight to prevent BSL, part of me agrees that it's safer for the dogs, shelters, and rescues if some of these dogs were euthanized, instead of being handled incorrectly or placed into unsafe homes.

Agreed - the Vick dogs were funded by him, not a rescue that had the money.

I thought it was/is the general policy of the MI HS to euthanize all pit bull type dogs. Unfortunately I agree with it as well.
I was at the Detroit City council meeting when BSL was on the table. Someone brought up mandatory spay/neuter and some woman in the hallway said "what, how am I gonna pay my rent?"

If not BSL, I don't know what the answer is to the current overpopulation problem. The kind of people with the ads up for litters would not abide by any laws.

[Slonopotam845]

Fighting line dogs are bred specifically not to be HA so I dont know where you are getting this they are fine until some kid pulls their ears and then the snap bs. That is just the same type of misinformation that causes these dogs to be put down without a chance in the first place. Also it is not fair to say that they can't be adopted because they are DA and high energy when the same shelters adopt out other dogs with the same traits aslong as they are not apbt.

I did NOT say fighting 'line' dogs BUT Fighting Dogs.
Dogs who do fight and still are fighting.
I also pointed out I was in Australia. We have more or less the same problems but different reasons and issues here.

Have you seen a Fighting Dog?? A dog who actually fights for it's life???
Believe me,,you let your kids pull it's ears or hurt it and you will have one less kid in the world...

It is NOT my bs that makes anything. It is yours.
It is when any breed of fighting dog is placed with people who have no idea of the breed/traits that end with bad results.

Pits that are fighters are not just DA and energetic. These dogs are bred and trained and learned to be DA and that is something normal everyday people looking for a pet dog cannot deal with.

Here ANY dog that shows HA or DA is not adopted out. Don't get up me because your laws will allow a DA Lab to be adopted and not a DA Pit.

It is people sprouting big ideas without checking facts that make the breed look dangerous. Adopting out a pit (or any fighting dog) that has obviously been used for fighting to just an everyday Joe, is just ridiculous and that is WHY people get hurt.

[Slonopotam845]

So I guess I'm confused. Michael Vicks dogs were all fighitng dogs correct but some have been adopted out???

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Also if pitbulls are seized from a fighting situation are all usually euthanized even the younge dogs say 6 monthes?? and dogs without any scarring?

As I stated, I am in Australia. I have no idea who you are talking about or the laws for each area you are in.

Of course pits seized from a fighting situation would be PTS,,,,that was what the OP was about. Dogs assumed to be fighting. IF they are taken from a fighting scene it would be assumed they are fighters.

Do NOT think a dog needs to be OF AGE to be trained for fighting.
They begin training as soon as they can walk about. Pups as young as 3 months are killed in continual fights.
How else do you get the 'pick' of the litters???

I may not know about all your USA APBT breeds/lines and associations BUT after many years here trying to work with police to stop illegal fighting I have learnt and seen a hell of alot more in regards to Fighting Dogs,,(Dogs bred and used in illegal fighting).

If this site is going to be WWW and open to all countries then I guess you just have to put up with the fact that people from other areas/countries will have different problems/issues, laws and legislation, along with different areas they follow amongst the breed.

[EspanaCamsInfo]

As I stated, I am in Australia. I have no idea who you are talking about or the laws for each area you are in.

Of course pits seized from a fighting situation would be PTS,,,,that was what the OP was about. Dogs assumed to be fighting. IF they are taken from a fighting scene it would be assumed they are fighters.

Do NOT think a dog needs to be OF AGE to be trained for fighting.
They begin training as soon as they can walk about. Pups as young as 3 months are killed in continual fights.
How else do you get the 'pick' of the litters???

I may not know about all your USA APBT breeds/lines and associations BUT after many years here trying to work with police to stop illegal fighting I have learnt and seen a hell of alot more in regards to Fighting Dogs,,(Dogs bred and used in illegal fighting).

If this site is going to be WWW and open to all countries then I guess you just have to put up with the fact that people from other areas/countries will have different problems/issues, laws and legislation, along with different areas they follow amongst the breed.

Oiy. . . dude do you even have a pit bull?
It matters not if the dog is a former fighter or a dog that wears clothes and lies on the couch all day. All pit bulls must be owned responsibly - never trust a dog of ANY breed not to fight!
It's called genetics and over 100 years of breeding - if a pit bull does not want to fight, there is no amount of "training" that will make him.

Yes, the Vick dogs were former fighting dogs and some of them were adopted. I have known many people with former fighting dogs that got along fine with other dogs. In fact, I've heard stories of fighting dogs that got along fine with other dogs - outside of the pit. But when they went to work, it was a different story.

DA does not automatically equal HA!! A former fighting dog if anything will be less likely to be HA, not more!

LOL pick of the litter!

[invasuant]

Agreed - the Vick dogs were funded by him, not a rescue that had the money.

I thought it was/is the general policy of the MI HS to euthanize all pit bull type dogs. Unfortunately I agree with it as well.
I was at the Detroit City council meeting when BSL was on the table. Someone brought up mandatory spay/neuter and some woman in the hallway said "what, how am I gonna pay my rent?"

If not BSL, I don't know what the answer is to the current overpopulation problem. The kind of people with the ads up for litters would not abide by any laws.

Dear...heaven. I'm glad I missed that comment!

It is MI Humane Society's general policy to euthanize all pit bull-type dogs. That being said, they do have rescue organizations that they WILL release the dogs to, but they're very few and far between. There are a few humane societies and shelters that do adopt out pit bull-type dogs, but they also don't have the resources or ability to follow up on these dogs, which is an absolute shame for the dogs - especially when they end up in an equally crappy home.

Do NOT think a dog needs to be OF AGE to be trained for fighting.
They begin training as soon as they can walk about. Pups as young as 3 months are killed in continual fights.
How else do you get the 'pick' of the litters???.

Pit bulls are not trained to be animal aggressive. It was a trait that has been selectively bred for for many generations.

If this site is going to be WWW and open to all countries then I guess you just have to put up with the fact that people from other areas/countries will have different problems/issues, laws and legislation, along with different areas they follow amongst the breed.

This is correct, however, you have to also be open to being reasonable with people as well. You come without the knowledge and backing of living in the US and a good many of us do not and will not have contact with Australian logic and laws. It's a mutual respect.

[QualityReachOut]

Animal cops is generally a bunch of B.S and many ignorant people, this topic has been discussed REPEATEDLY.

Also, Ive rehabed fight dogs, so for someone to say they are all better off PTS is B.S aswell. For example, I rescued a 1 1/2yr old Colby Lined APBT from a street fighter, He had pitted the dog a few times and since she was a winning dog then used her as a brood/breeding bitch and when he decided he wanted new stock he dumped dogs off on random strangers. Well luckly enough I happened to be one of those random strangers. This dog was HIGHLY DA and high prey drive I worked with her to the point were she enjoyed playing with my other APBTs and had no problems of fighting. BUT I know what im doing with the breed and wouldn't suggest just anyone try to do this. The dog was fine around my pack of dogs, and great with visiting kids/strangers/friends etc And I adopted her out sucessfully to a home to this day enjoys every moment with this dog and couldn't imagine there lives with out her. Granted I adopted her out as MUST BE AN ONLY PET and I carefully screened the home etc...

It just depends on the individual dog aswell as how much work someone wants to invest in rehabing the dog. To say all fight dogs are better off dead is ignorant. Some can be made into wonderful house dogs if they have the personality for it aswell as an understanding and well informed owner.

[Slonopotam845]

Oiy. . . dude do you even have a pit bull?
It matters not if the dog is a former fighter or a dog that wears clothes and lies on the couch all day. All pit bulls must be owned responsibly - never trust a dog of ANY breed not to fight!
It's called genetics and over 100 years of breeding - if a pit bull does not want to fight, there is no amount of "training" that will make him.

Yes, the Vick dogs were former fighting dogs and some of them were adopted. I have known many people with former fighting dogs that got along fine with other dogs. In fact, I've heard stories of fighting dogs that got along fine with other dogs - outside of the pit. But when they went to work, it was a different story.

DA does not automatically equal HA!! A former fighting dog if anything will be less likely to be HA, not more!

LOL pick of the litter!

Yes I do own a pit thanks for asking..

Now can you go read the other posts??
The OP was about a pit found and assumed to be of fighting stock and the OP asked how would they know.....
I said by the scars/wounds.

Then this all went on like a bag out.

No wonder you people are not getting anywhere..
It was about why fighting dogs could NOT be adopted out,,,,and it is due to the liability...
Even if a fighting dog is just DA it is still not considered safe for it to be adopted out.
SOME fighting dogs may be OK but noone will take that chance because of the ones that end up NOT being safe..

Considering it was about fighting dogs your comment of
""no amount of training will make him"" is mute,,,,cause in the fighting scene he will be the DEAD dog and no adoption would be needed...

OK,,,HOW do you think they get the pick of the litter from fighting dogs???
People who fight dogs illegally and want to purchase a new fighting dog!!!
Do you think they sit and watch it walk about OR do you think they put all the pups in a cage/ring and make them fight????

[invasuant]

It just depends on the individual dog aswell as how much work someone wants to invest in rehabing the dog. To say all fight dogs are better off dead is ignorant. Some can be made into wonderful house dogs if they have the personality for it aswell as an understanding and well informed owner.

While this may be true, many of the facilities that take in these so-called "fight dogs" do not have the resources available to them to properly place these dogs in homes that can manage their breed traits.

Also being said, not all rescues are up to the par of handling these animals either. While you may do a superb job of it, not every single rescue or humane organization will. Sometimes it is more humane to euthanize the dog than have it end up living it's life in something akin to purgatory.

[ArrereGarhync]

I'm a firm believer that EVERY animal deserves a chance. Regardless of its history. Unfortunantly there are not enough homes for all the shelter dogs, especially pitbulls being the most common in a shelter....and there are far less homes for pitbulls that need rehabilitation and work because the dog has previously been fought.

My friends pitbull was attacked by another dog when she was a puppy. She has scars all over her face. She was never fought and is a family pet. Its just a sin to think that is she were ever surrendered to a shelter or picked up as as stray a wonderful dog could be euthanized because of scars that arnt even from being involved in dog fighting.

Its to bad there isnt a "test" to know if they are really fighting dogs instead of looking at physical marks ect.

[Lån-Penge]

This is an issue with most Pit rescue shelters to. Sure they will take the eye candy dogs, but not the ones that are not big burley things that look good in your "Gangsta" photos. Liabilety as mentioned erler is also a big deal. Evry animal shelter I have been to is hurting for money and a law sute would most likley end them. It is sad but what else can they do ?

[Immarsecice]

SadMushroom...if in Australia you are judging the "game" in dogs by puppy behavior...you are fooling yourselves. If ya'll buy dogs based on the behavior as a juvenille or puppy, you might as well roll the dice...it is a crap shoot. Some of the best dogs are ones that didn't turn "hot" until they were 2 years old or later. I understand that it is safer to just PTS than try to rehab a known fighting dog, but that does not mean that it is the correct choice based on what the dog will be.

HA dogs are going to most likely be the ones that don't have scars so based on your criteria, they would be spared and the dogs with DA would be PTS...bassackwards as far as I can tell.

[wp6Eg2Fm]

Just because a pit bull was raised to fight does not mean it will be mean to humans. DA and HA are two totally different things. And as far as being treated mean so the dog has more of a chance of being mean, well yea that can be true, but not always and in fact I think APBT are pretty reslient. By testing these dogs you can make a pretty educated guess as far as their temperment, so to automatically put down a dog because they show DA is ridiculous, even if they've been used for fighitng. But I do agree that no uneducated person should own a fighting dog, or even a dog that has DA.

-philly