[Gcromqgb]

After reading the Petco/Petsmart thread in the new forum, I was wandering just you guys felt about muzzles? I am kind of in the meddle of the road on this one, on one hand it makes the dog wearing the muzzle look mean even if it is not, but on the other hand you would not have to worry about a fight in a public place.

I for one took Rocky around all kinds of dogs when he was a young pup, but now that he is 7 months and bratty I do not do that not that he has ever shown any signs of DA but I just do not want to take that chance with my dog or anyone else's. So how do you guys feel about muzzles?

[seicslybearee]

I wouldn't use a muzzle in public unless there was BSL in my area and it was the only way I could keep my dog from being PTS simply b/c most ppl will mistakenly think the dog is muzzled for the safety of people and that is not the kind of image I'd want to portray.

I do use one in my home, for the safety of my cats, on rare occassions, and when I am there to supervise.

[Triiooman]

Muzzling one dog around other dogs to prevent a fight is a BAD idea because then that dog can't defend itself if it gets attacked.

I would not walk a muzzled dog in public. If a dog has to be muzzled, it shouldn't be going anywhere and probably shouldn't be alive.

Like Rai said.. the only time I would take a muzzled dog in public would be if I lived in a BSL area that required it, and then I would use a comfort muzzle which is basically just a band.

[tpJKhY8Z]

A muzzle in public is not nessasary if the dog is properly managed. I.E. do not allow a dog with DA to interact with strange/new dogs.

The only reason a dog should need to be muzzled is for human safety when performing a medical treatment IMO.

[Gcromqgb]

Thanks guys, I do not even own a muzzle and have never even thought about buying one. Rocky is such a good dog but then again like I said I take measures to keep him out of situations where there is a risk that something could happen.

[masaredera]

This is kind of getting further off topic, but I just wanted to let you guys know that if you ever DO have to muzzle your dog due to BSL, you should look into 'Happy Muzzles'. I see their ad in The Bark all the time. They are muzzles with fun designs on them so they don't look so intimidating. They have designs like cherries, polka dots, etc. They're cute!

http://www.doginthecity.net/product_dealers.html

[Gcromqgb]

Well, one reason I asked, I had a client tell me that she heard the city was trying to pass a bill that ANY dog over 50 lbs had to wear a muzzle if they were on city land such as parks. I thought that it was crazy, there is a small city walking park across the street from my house and we walk Rocky there sometimes, there is never anyone there maybe a jogger every now and then, but I would hate to have to muzzle him to walk him there.

Anytime we walk him there we keep him on a shot leash and he is at our side at all times.

[Jenisoisy]

Hades has to be muzzled in public. We get away with a lot because we live in a small town and we know a lot of store owners, property owners through dog school so depending on particular situations/zoning they will allow Hades on property unmuzzled, but generally walking downtown he has to be muzzled by-law.

I think every dog should be able to tolerate a muzzle, you never know what kind of situation you may be in that they may have to wear one due to shock, like a car accident. If they've had one on before it may not stress them out even more.

I agree that if a dog has to be muzzled in public it probably shouldn't be there in the first place, BUT I do have ammendments to that rule, which is people that are working towards gaining more control of their dog. They have to get their dog out there to work on the issue but the muzzle gives people a sense of safety.

[sabbixsweraco]

This is kind of getting further off topic, but I just wanted to let you guys know that if you ever DO have to muzzle your dog due to BSL, you should look into 'Happy Muzzles'. I see their ad in The Bark all the time. They are muzzles with fun designs on them so they don't look so intimidating. They have designs like cherries, polka dots, etc. They're cute!

http://www.doginthecity.net/product_dealers.html

I've seen these. They are really cool looking.

[virtuah]

I wouldnt muzzle unless I had to by law. ALTHOUGH, With Apbts Ive found it handy to use gentle leaders depending on where Im walking as if there was a lot of dogs around, I had a Firm control on my dog, but they could also defend themselves if need be. I found it to be more useful then a pinch, collar or harness in some situations as apbts use there bodys against leashes (They put there muscle and weight into pulling) The gentle leader at least has control of there head and can redirect them in the direction you wish to go, its also been handy when walking past other dogs on smaller paths, I can turn my dogs face away so theres no Lunging at the other dog.

[tpJKhY8Z]

I've used muzzles at different points over the years. When I first got Nyx, I muzzled her as her last owner messed her up so bad teaching her to "protect" she needed one until I could retrain her. Within a year, she was muzzle free at all times. I muzzle Tank everytime I walk him. He is highly dog aggressive with strange dogs, plus VERY large and I'm am very petite so I don't take any chances with him and loose dogs. As well, he was already involved in incidents with his previous owner that put a muzzle order on him. I bring a muzzle with me when I walk Deeohgee and Bailey just incase we run into loose dogs, along with a breaking stick, poo bags, treats, etc... It's just another tool in being responsible IMO. I've never had to actually use one with them though. If I went into Vancouver with Bailey as it's much more populated than Surrey and there are TONS off loose dogs which is weird as it's a big city, I would muzzle Bailey there. She needs to be as if a dog runs up to her, she will grab it. I don't see that she needs to die because she's DA. Personally, I wish the pit bull community would get over their fear of muzzles. It's just a tool and can protect your dog and keep it out of crap. Christ.. they muzzle jack russels and whippets when they do sport with them.

[tpJKhY8Z]

I don't see that she needs to die because she's DA.

Actually, maybe I should reword that, as well as expand upon it. I don't see that Tank nor Bailey, nor any other dog aggressive dog I have or will handle in the future should have to die because they are DA and OTHER PEOPLE CAN'T FOLLOW LEASH LAWS! I can't control what other people do with their dogs, but I can control my dogs chances of being, or not being involved in an incident!There is no way in hell I am going to be trapped in my house or yard with my dogs because of irresponsible idiots who don't properly confine their dogs, and not have complete freedom to go wherever I want, whenever I want, with my dogs to work on their training, socializing and get them some excercise. My dogs have just as much right to be out in public as any other dog regardless of their dog aggression but I also have enough sense to know that idiots will be idiots and I don't want my dogs biting another dog AND THEY WILL IF GIVEN THE CHANCE! That would put them so far back in their training and all my hard work to desensitize them to behaving around other dogs in public. Muzzling looks alot better to the public than me having to pry one of them off someones dog. I am very much against laws requiring certain breeds to be muzzled especially when half the dogs included in muzzle laws don't need to be muzzled, but I also have enough sense and experience to know what dogs I'm handling will benefit, YES, BENEFIT from wearing a muzzle. I hear it again and again from pit bull owners how they are so scared to walk their dogs for fear a loose dog may approach them or whatever so instead, they hide their dog in the house or walk at night in fear which I'm sure is GREAT for the dogs psyche! That is so sad to me, for the dog and the owner! I've actually asked ALOT of people what their first impression was when they saw me walking Tank with his muzzle and you know what they said, not that they thought "look at that mean dog" they thought "look at that responsible owner!" Muzzles have improved my dogs life. His life sucked before I got him. He was always locked away or getting in crap. Now he's much better trained, better socialized, in better shape and under control because of his muzzling. He LOVES his muzzle. As soon as I touch it he dances around so excited because he knows a walk is coming. You know what all these anti muzzle people sound like. Just the same as the people out there who won't leash their damn dogs! "If your dog needs a leash, it's a bad dog" type attitude. Seriously, our breed would probably be in a BETTER state if people used the tools at their disposal to keep their dogs safe, and in my opinion, for some dogs, that includes muzzles. That's my rant for the day.

[Triiooman]

You make your point well, Zoe.

But I have to disagree with some of what you say. Muzzling Tank because he's a large, DA dog and you're a petite woman? To me, this would be like letting a child walk him. If you can't control him, you shouldn't be walking him. I'm not saying this specifically at you... but in general.

I definitely don't have a fear of muzzles. Ruger is muzzled when he does lure coursing, just like the rest of the dogs! I worry if there is a dog in his field that ISN'T muzzled! But I think there are times, places, and proper uses for muzzles... and normal, every day leash walks don't qualify. I don't think a dog needs to be PTS because they are DA, especially bulldogs, but I think they need to be better trained and handled so that they aren't a danger in public. If loose dogs are a problem, carry pepper spray or something else to ward them off. I know not everyone with a really DA dog muzzles their dog in public.

[tpJKhY8Z]

First off, I CAN control Tank in public. He was previously owned by two large guys who had zero control over him, so size when it comes to control isn't really a factor. Tank minds me because I'm boss. Look at the little standard size dogs that pull massive weight in weight pull contests. Even a small dog can over power alot of people. What I CAN'T control is what other people do with their dogs, and no matter how well I can get him to behave, if another dog runs up to him, there isn't much I can do if it happens and I know this is the case with many people with DA dogs. I have heard of numerous comments about people walking standard size dogs and an incident occuring because a loose dog ran up to them, or at least they live with that extreme fear that something COULD happen. The difference is Tank is alot larger, with the same type of drive as a smaller dog and would no doubt do a ton more damage, and it would be irresponsible of me not to muzzle him in my opinion. If you knew Tank, as the amazing boy I do, with my kids, with people, with animals he knows, instead of just a picture on the internet, I bet you'd feel alot differently. You'd fall in love with him instantly and be glad to see he is so loved and so protected by those he loves. You'd see the freedom something as simple as a muzzle has given him and how much better his life is because of it. There is NO WAY I could have gotten as far in training with him or Nyx and made them MORE controllable without the use of a muzzle. Just the other day, he sat calmly at a coffee shop with a strange dog just feet away. Years before, when I first got him, he would have been frothing at the mouth and loosing his bloody mind to get that dog and I never even would have put him in that situation. The muzzle has allowed me to put him in situations I never would have to help him learn to behave and expand his world. I think of all the people who are so nervous walking their DA dog, and how that nervousness is affecting their dog. Meanwhile, with a muzzle in place, they could take their dog anywhere they wanted to go, with confidence and work on training without fear of their dog getting in trouble.

To me it just makes absolutely no sense that we, as a community, will stand up and say YES our dogs are dog aggressive, and that's ok, but we won't take the responsible measure of muzzling our dogs when they may be in a situation where it warrants it? Ok... so we will, dispite what the public thinks, defend breaking sticks, treadmills, spring poles, chain set ups, etc... all because they are either responsible or enhance our dogs lives, but for some reason muzzles are taboo?

Maybe you have a hard time understanding what it is like to live in a city with a DA dog, as me using a muzzle has nothing to do with size as I will muzzle Bailey as well and she's only about 45 pounds and she's quite easy to handle, but again, I live in a large city where leash laws aren't enforced and a dog running up to us is inevitable at some point. Every tight, crowded corner you turn, there could be a little dog on a flexi lead, or some hippies loose dog following a block behind their owner as seems the norm in Vancouver. It's not like in the county where you can see from all directions, walking calmly along a deserted country road. City living is not the same as country living. Controlling a dog on leash with nothing around is alot easier than controlling a dog in a bustling city environment.

There is absolutely no way I could use pepper spray. I am walking not only with two little kids, but one of those little kids has a chronic lung disease and I can't imagine what a back wind of pepper spray in the face would do to her. No, I will keep walking my proudly muzzled dog, educating people who ask why he is muzzled and hope that other people see the benefit behind muzzles in certain situations and that they are nothing to be ashamed off. Just another tool like a leash, a breaking stick or the cookies in my pocket.

[tpJKhY8Z]

To add... I, just like every responsible pit bull owner out there, am VERY concerned about the "image" of our breed, but when a GOOD dogs quality of life is put on the back burner for the sake of worrying "what the public might think" I feel it is time to re-evalute what is truely important. Should I pull my spring pole out of my tree for fear of what my neighbours think? Should I hide my treadmill and breaking sticks? Do you really believe, that a dog that LIVES for walks, and whose life has had a MAJOR turn around because he's finally been able to safely get out in public and LEARN how to behave thanx to a muzzle, doesn't deserve all the wonderful things that a simple walk brings to his life? One of the main reasons Tank and Nyx were so hard to handle is that their previous owners did with them just exactly what you are suggesting, to lock them away for fear of what they might do or what others might think. No bloody way am I going to do that to him or any dog. It's not healthy. It's not humane. And it's simply not fair to the dog that such a stupid taboo seems to be the norm. This isn't directed at you Jairi as I've seen this exact attitude repeatedly in this community and I think it is destructive to advancement of individual dogs, as well as dog husbandry in general.

[Gcromqgb]

Aweeee Zoe I agree and my husband agrees 100% with you. He and I had talked about this very thing, I was unsure about a muzzle but he felt the same way you do.

Like he said, Rocky is a sweetie but we can not control other peoples dogs and if Rocky was to get a hold of someones unattended pet, he would be the one put down just because he is an APBT and I am sure he is right because we hear of things like that all the time.

One of the reasons I was asking is because I would love to take Rocky to public places, like the lady who took her dog to PetSmart, but for his safty and other pets safty I don't, he has never shown DA but I know there is the possibility. When he was smaller we took him everywhere but now he is bigger we don't and it has nothing to do with us not being able to controll him, but just the fear of "What if"

I do not let my grandchildren ride in my car without a seat belt, even when they want to play games because of the "What if's" When my children were small and I had to take a Grayhound bus 600 miles I put them on a leash, I had some crazy looks but it was the "what if's" What if someone snached them or they wandered off from me.

I can see your point in it being a training tool.

[tpJKhY8Z]

For anyone with a DA dog that they have anxiety about walking I can tell you a muzzle is LIBERATION! Not only that, but outside of a very few negative remarks over the years, it has been a major discusion opener while we are out and about which has given me countless opportunities to educate on the breed and people always share their appreciation of me being extra cautious with my dogs that are DA and always leave our conversations with a smile on their face and a thank you. During this black time in our breeds history, I consider muzzling dogs known to be DA in situations that warrant it as taking that extra step up in being RESPONSIBLE and if our breed needs anything right now, it's a step up in responsibility by those that handle them. Life is way to short for me to hide away with my dogs and that is no life for them. How can they be expected to improve if they aren't out and about? Isn't excercise and socialization vital to having a well cared for dog? If we are going to embrace the fact that our breed is DA, shouldn't we be embracing ways to responsibley mamage that instead of hiding them away and lurking around the shadows at night like we are ashamed of them?

[bUqLfXRI]

To answer the original question, IMO "no." The only time a muzzle should be considered is if your dog is an asshole at the vets. And then the problem(s) need to be addressed and fixed.

Muzzles are band-aids. Nothing more.

[cauddyVab]

I have to agree w/ Mia on this one. Proper training & handling is the key, not muzzling.

In my own personal experience I have found that muzzling further imprints a negative stereo type on our breed. For example, we have a muzzle law here in my town. When I was downtown working my dog for his CGC, one of the tests is approach by a friendly stranger & petting by a stranger. I carried his muzzle since he hates to wear it. But I wanted to have it on me to avoid a ticket. Anyway, tons of folks wanted to meet & pet Tiger ... until they saw I was carrying a muzzle. Then they shrank back in horror.

So IMO unless you have to, it is best to keep the muzzles on the store shelf.

JMHO ...

[Poothevokprot]

To answer the original question, IMO "no." The only time a muzzle should be considered is if your dog is an asshole at the vets. And then the problem(s) need to be addressed and fixed.

Muzzles are band-aids. Nothing more.

I agree. The responsible thing is not put your dog or the rest of our dogs in the spot light just to further fuel BSL. And a pitbull with a muzzle on the first thing that JQ Public things is HA not DA.

If you can not control your dog 100% or your dog is DA then you do not need to bring an area that is high in off leash dogs. Or an area that there is a chance that a dog can come in contact with yours ie.... PetSmart/PetCo.

Out of the 10 we have I can only take Mike to those places because of the level of DA they have. And I have not took him in over a year and a half.

And for the arguement that it is unfair that you can not do all those things with your dog then get another breed. Even if they have not shown any signs of DA I would not risk it. The first thing that you hear owners of dogs that bit "Oh he/she has never done THAT before."