[Wmshyrga]

There's 25 papers listed when you have the time... : -)

Just quote the relevent bit from one of them thanks (plus any conflicting statements of course).

[investmentonlinev2006x]

Rippley's Believe it or NOT, LOL.... Eyes Wide Shut, so it can never be, can it ?

BUT IT IS !!!! Is the arrogance deliberate, or do you just not realise?

For your information, no-one is suggesting that all (or any) of the "laws" of physics are necessarily correct and inviolable. The discussion is just whether the hypothesised drives fit within them or not, that's all.

[Wrencytet]

I suppose that would work, so that the law of conservation of momentum would become:

Momentum is always conserved, except under conditions xyz (which conditions have not yet been observed to occur anywhere within the observable Universe).

But that would still seem to me to be a conflict between the hypothesised warp drives and the currently accepted laws of physics.

I can't see it being a problem with the warping of spacetime scenario. From my basic view of physics, the momentum is measured against the spacetime "fabric", so if it's folded, the calculations show that the object you are "moving" hasn't really moved at all, spacetime has.





(BTW, can a mod change the title of this thread... all the greater than symbols, ie. >>>>>, are stuffing the title so it doesn't show on my new posts page.)

[GroosteFoessy]

The discussion is just whether the hypothesised drives fit within them or not, that's all. OIC
of course they fit in, just in a lateral thinking manner....
aren't all innovations like that ?

The arrogance is because I have one and y'all think it is impossible

I do like that, because no one on Earth will build one, because they know it can never be.

All I have written is true and correct and described accurately by the laws of physics.

*gone*

[Lebybynctisee]

OIC
of course they fit in, just in a lateral thinking manner....
aren't all innovations like that ?

The arrogance is because I have one and y'all think it is impossible

I do like that, because no one on Earth will build one, because they know it can never be.

All I have written is true and correct and described accurately by the laws of physics.

*gone*

But you are going to take it to the grave with you because the rest of us don't deserve it.....Or have you also discovered the secret to immortality too?

[Wdlglivi]

one of those cryptic LSD experimentation threads.

[Piediahef]

i think some of the problems with warp bubbles is the intersection of the highly curved spacetime with the flat spacetime inside and outside the bubble. it would be like having a blackhole in front of you and a negative blackhole behind you. i don't think it would be a wormhole behind. also keeping oneself centred inside the bubble, you wouldn't want to get close to any edges.

[tooratrack]

Breakthrough Propulsion Physics 11.19.2008


Artist's depiction of a hypothetical Wormhole Induction Propelled Spacecraft, based loosely on the 1994 "warp drive" paper of Miguel Alcubierre. Credit: NASA CD-98-76634 by Les Bossinas.
Introduction
The term breakthrough propulsion refers to concepts like space drives and faster-than-light travel, the kind of breakthroughs that would make interstellar travel practical.

For a general explanation of the challenges and approaches of interstellar flight, please visit the companion website:Warp Drive: When? The Warp-When site is written for the general public and uses icons of science fiction to help convey such notions. This website, on the other hand, is intended for scientists and engineers.

This research falls within the realm of physics instead of technology, with the distinction being that physics is about uncovering the laws of nature while technology is about applying that physics to build useful devices. Since existing technology is inadequate for traversing astronomical distances between neighboring stars (even if advanced to the limit of its underlying physics), the only way to circumvent these limits is to discover new propulsion physics. The discovery of new force-production and energy-exchange principles would lead to a whole new class of technologies. This is the motivation of breakthrough propulsion physics research.

Objectively, the desired breakthroughs might turn out to be impossible, but progress is not made by conceding defeat. Reciprocally, breakthroughs have a habit of taking pessimists by surprise, but can equally remain elusive. By proceeding in small, incremental steps that focus on the immediate questions and by emphasizing the reliability of the findings rather than their long-range implications, relevant and dependable knowledge will result. Regardless of whether the breakthroughs are found, this inquiry provides an additional perspective with which to seek answers to the lingering unknowns of our universe.


Accordingly, this web site will no longer be updated.



Status of Research
No breakthroughs appear imminent. This is a nascent field where a variety of concepts and issues are being explored in the scientific literature, beginning since about the early 1990s. The collective status is still at step 1 and 2 of the scientific method, "defining the problem" and "collecting data," but a small number of approaches are already at step 4, "testing hypotheses;" with experiments underway.

Cautionary note: On a topic this visionary and whose implications are profound, there is a risk of encountering, premature conclusions in the literature, driven by overzealous enthusiasts as well as pedantic pessimists. The most productive path is to seek out and build upon publications that focus on the critical make-break issues and lingering unknowns, both from the innovators' perspective and their skeptical challengers. Avoid works with broad-sweeping and unsubstantiated claims, either supportive or dismissive.

The references below can serve as starting points for deeper inquires. Citations within these reports will take you to other relevant works. An interim survey is also provided on a separate web page for your convenience.

Interim Survey
Millis, M. G. (2005) "Assessing Potential Propulsion Breakthroughs." New Trends in Astrodynamics and Applications, Edward Belbruno, (ed.). Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences, 1065: 441-461.
[Note: Although this is published through a non-NASA venue, the contents of this government-sponsored work are available without copyright restrictions in the US.]
+Web Page +Download PDF (0.1 MB).

Sample Research

Quantum Vacuum Energy
Maclay, G. Jordan, Jay Hammer, Rod Clark, Michael George, Yeong Kim, and Asit Kir. (2004) Study of Vacuum Energy Physics for Breakthrough Propulsion. NASA/CR–2006-213311
+Abstract +Download PDF (4.4 MB)
Transient Inertia
Cramer, John G., Curran W. Fey, and Damon V. Casissi. (2004) Tests of Mach's Principle With a Mechanical Oscillator. NASA/CR–2004-213310.
+Abstract +Download PDF (1.5 MB)
Lifters, Biefeld-Brown, Asymmetrical Capacitors, etc.
Canning, Francis X. Cory Melcher, and Edwin Winet. (2004) Asymmetrical Capacitors for Propulsion. NASA/CR–2004-213312.
+Abstract +Download PDF (1.0 MB)
Space Drives(Step 1: defining the problem)
Millis, M. G. (1997) "Challenge to Create the Space Drive." AIAA Journal of Propulsion and Power, 13: 577-582.
[Note: Although this is published through a non-NASA venue, the contents of this government-sponsored work are available without copyright restrictions in the US.]
+Download PDF (0.7 MB)
Faster Than Light (general relativity approach)
Visser, Matt. (1996) Lorentzian Wormholes: From Einstein to Hawking. Springer-Verlag, New York, Inc.
Project Management Methods
Millis, M. G. (2004) Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Project: Project Management Methods , NASA/TM–2004-213406.
+Abstract +Download PDF (0.4 MB)




http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/bpp/index.html

[b7RKli4l]

From the article:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Cautionary note: On a topic this visionary and whose implications are profound, there is a risk of encountering, premature conclusions in the literature, driven by overzealous enthusiasts as well as pedantic pessimists. The most productive path is to seek out and build upon publications that focus on the critical make-break issues and lingering unknowns, both from the innovators' perspective and their skeptical challengers. Avoid works with broad-sweeping and unsubstantiated claims, either supportive or dismissive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


I envisage one day in the near future when funding and interest is again at its zenith.
Like it said, the implications of a breakthrough would indeed be profound!

[markphata]

List of Peer-Reviewed Journal Articles Resulting from BPP Project Sponsorship at


http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/bpp/JournalList.html

[bridsanaeds]

ASSESSING POTENTIAL PROPULSION BREAKTHROUGHS
Marc G. Millis
NASA John H. Glenn Research Center at Lewis Field
21000 Brookpark Rd., MS 86-2
Cleveland, OH 44135-3191
ABSTRACT

The term, propulsion breakthrough, refers to concepts like propellantless space drives and faster-than-light travel, the kind of breakthroughs that would make interstellar exploration practical. Although no such breakthroughs appear imminent, a variety of investigations have begun. From 1996-2002, NASA supported the Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Project to examine physics in the context of breakthrough spaceflight. Three facets of these assessments are now reported: (1) predicting benefits, (2) selecting research, and (3) recent technical progress. Predicting benefits is challenging since the breakthroughs are still only notional concepts, but energy can serve as a basis for comparison. A hypothetical space drive would require many orders of magnitude less energy than a rocket for journeys to our nearest neighboring star. Assessing research options is challenging when the goals are beyond known physics and when the implications of success are profound. To mitigate the challenges, a selection process is described where: (a) research tasks are constrained to only address the immediate unknowns, curious effects or critical issues, (b) reliability of assertions is more important than their implications , and (c) reviewers judge credibility rather than feasibility . The recent findings of a number of tasks, some selected using this process, are discussed. Of the 14 tasks included, 6 reached null conclusions, 4 remain unresolved, and 4 have opportunities for sequels. A dominant theme with the sequels is research about the properties of space, inertial frames, and the quantum vacuum.





http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/bpp/overview.html

[HaremShaih]

my microwave has plate on ring with tiny wheels, when I heat one thing it might turn clockwise, if I heat a second thing it will turn counterclockwise.....why does direction alternate with every item microwaved?
I hope this is the right place to ask a question......I've looked all over the website, and did a search to find questions about microwave ovens.

[jstizzle]

Maybe your question dianne1995 should be in a new thread.
Not sure what microwave ovens have to do with prospective new means of propulsion.

Maybe you just like the thread? I agree in that case! :-)

[kennyguitar]

I think what is important to remember here is that while there do exist theoretical solutions that include warp bubbles and the like this in itself doesn't mean that they are, or ever will be, practically achievable. It is my understanding that many of these solutions actually require some very funky physics in order to be realised.

[DoctorQuquriramba]

I think what is important to remember here is that while there do exist theoretical solutions that include warp bubbles and the like this in itself doesn't mean that they are, or ever will be, practically achievable. It is my understanding that many of these solutions actually require some very funky physics in order to be realised.

Yep, just as the first air flight required some very funky physics at the time...as of course did putting a man on the Moon and bring him safely home, and all were at one time or another thought to be unachievable.....But of course the people of those days weren't thinking of time and progress etc etc etc.

[naturaherbal]

I think what is important to remember here is that while there do exist theoretical solutions that include warp bubbles and the like this in itself doesn't mean that they are, or ever will be, practically achievable. yes, from what i've read it seems a case of think up a solution then get the maths to fit. bit like there are negative solutions to equation which while mathematically correct don't fit real-world scenarios.

[Aniplinipsync]

A hypothetical space drive would require many orders of magnitude less energy than a rocket for journeys to our nearest neighboring star. Efficiency comparable to a car's traction for movement and a jet engine... however the nearest star is a very long way away, even for light

Assessing research options is challenging when the goals are beyond known physics and when the implications of success are profound. very very true re implications... however know physics does not contradict a space drive... its just too lateral for now. (everyone thinks they know all of physics, so there is no simple breakthrough technology... LOL.... its impossible, NOT)

[realnilkless]

Yep, just as the first air flight required some very funky physics at the time...as of course did putting a man on the Moon and bring him safely home, and all were at one time or another thought to be unachievable.....But of course the people of those days weren't thinking of time and progress etc etc etc.

The kitty hawk required no 'funky physics'... nor did putting a man on the moon...

What I'm talking about are things like, for instance, a requirement for negative energy...

[Machater]

The kitty hawk required no 'funky physics'... nor did putting a man on the moon... more a case of "funky" technology application.

[lopushok]

The kitty hawk required no 'funky physics'... nor did putting a man on the moon...

What I'm talking about are things like, for instance, a requirement for negative energy...

:-)
Great to be able to view situations in hindsight isn't it?
Pity we can't ask great men of that era like Lord Kelvin just to name one.