[buIf6yoW]

If the US wants to send a representative Humanity project. there should be very significant input from the Russian, the Chinese, the European and Japanese Space agencies. I can already envision the toilet facilities designed by the Chinese to maximise methane return as use as a power source. They have these already at the household scale, it could be matched with a methane electrochemical engine for electrical generation.

This would save some power and if used carefully would supply "soil" for rapid plant growth.

This would be definitely one way, and I would be wanting Science (Engineering) input of the people as well as just Grunts.

[masterso]

No I think what diddly is saying that we'll probably just continue to improve our life on Earth. Plus the fact that economics changes isn't really an argument it may be our economy gets worse.

My argument remains the same as always... there is no reason why we need to relocate as a part of any survival strategy any time in the next billion years or so...

I just find it amusing when pro planetary exploration arguments are couched in terms of "survival of our species" or "it's our destiny"...

[maks_holi]

The other way of looking at it is that we can screw up this planet, keep moving and screwing up others as well. Disposable society, baby!

[masterso]

The other way of looking at it is that we can screw up this planet, keep moving and screwing up others as well. Disposable society, baby!

equally we could screw up this planet then create technology to recycle everything

[masterso]

You think we'll end back in the trees?
I suppose there is a non zero chance of that.

I'll put my money on a space-faring/planetary/stellar civilisation though. Just to be clear...

There is a very big difference between choosing to follow a certain path and claiming that same path is your destiny...

While I agree that it's more than likely we will continue to advance our space technologies, I don't agree that it's our destiny to do so.

[ferelrossi]

The other way of looking at it is that we can screw up this planet, keep moving and screwing up others as well. Disposable society, baby!

We do have to spread out to other place if we are to survive as a species, that much is absolutely sure.
There are all manner of catastrophic physical events that can, and with almost complete certainty, do massive damage to the Earth. Top of my list of things to worry about is a large asteroid strike. There's ample evidence in the past of huge strikes that have caused massive damage and absolutely no reason why it couldn't happen again any time soon. And we have no way of stopping it happening.
Also up near the top of the list are such things as massive volcanisation that would pump enough crap into the atmosphere so as to make life very difficult for everything alive. Also some nasty virus that has a long incubation period, spreads by air, has a very short active period, and is fatal; There's some unpleasant people out there that could, in theory, design such a thing.
The only way to ensure we don't lose all our eggs in the one basket is to get out of that one basket. And if you want to take the greenie point of view if we reduce the human load on this planet if will do just fine (much better in fact) without us burning everything that will burn and pumping crap back into it.

[broksaksaak]

i agree with diddly. and really i am more interested in the science and technology than whether it is our destiny or not.

[maks_holi]

I'd add "nuclear accident" to the list of probable doomsday scenarios.

[ferelrossi]

i agree with diddly. and really i am more interested in the science and technology than whether it is our destiny or not.

As I mention in my previous post, it's nothing to do with destiny, it's a requirement if we want to survive long-term.

[masterso]

We do have to spread out to other place if we are to survive as a species, that much is absolutely sure.
There are all manner of catastrophic physical events that can, and with almost complete certainty, do massive damage to the Earth. Top of my list of things to worry about is a large asteroid strike. There's ample evidence in the past of huge strikes that have caused massive damage and absolutely no reason why it couldn't happen again any time soon. And we have no way of stopping it happening.
Also up near the top of the list are such things as massive volcanisation that would pump enough crap into the atmosphere so as to make life very difficult for everything alive. Also some nasty virus that has a long incubation period, spreads by air, has a very short active period, and is fatal; There's some unpleasant people out there that could, in theory, design such a thing.
The only way to ensure we don't lose all our eggs in the one basket is to get out of that one basket. And if you want to take the greenie point of view if we reduce the human load on this planet if will do just fine (much better in fact) without us burning everything that will burn and pumping crap back into it.

The "remove all the eggs from one basket" thing seems, to me at least, to be the most sensible argument in favor of off world colonisation. Equally we could develop technologies to stop or limit the effects of "extinction level events" (asteroid impacts or volcanic eruptions, etc..).

[broksaksaak]

i see the main risks as being ones we have no control over. as TCH mentioned volcanoes and asteroids. any manmade threat hopefully we will have progressed past by the time we are able to colonise anywhere else.

[masterso]

As I mention in my previous post, it's nothing to do with destiny, it's a requirement if we want to survive long-term.

it's not a requirement, it would just be a good idea is all...

[xIuvyAuT]

As I mention in my previous post, it's nothing to do with destiny, it's a requirement if we want to survive long-term.

It's everything to do with destiny, [space is big and there really ain't anywhere else to go] along with many other reasons such as an astronomical catastrophe, adventure, the pursuit of knowledge, and to go where no bastard has gone before etc etc

[maks_holi]

Equally we could develop technologies to stop or limit the effects of "extinction level events" (asteroid impacts or volcanic eruptions, etc..).

Not for lack of trying though.

[masterso]

i see the main risks as being ones we have no control over

zombie apocalypse

[ferelrossi]

i see the main risks as being ones we have no control over. as TCH mentioned volcanoes and asteroids. any manmade threat hopefully we will have progressed past by the time we are able to colonise anywhere else.

*fingers crossed* here as well. We don't have a long history of doing the right thing though.
Too many really thick 'smart' people.

[broksaksaak]

zombie apocalypse treadmills, we have the technology....

[maks_holi]

Too many really thick 'smart' people.

More like a little less conversation and a little more action please... and less red tape about it all.

[xIuvyAuT]

And of course there is the change and decay of the Earth's magnetic field, which it seems we would have no control over......That would prove devastating...[see the Earth's magnetic field" thread]...

[ferelrossi]

More like a little less conversation and a little more action please... and less red tape about it all.

Oh yeah.
The problem is that we often seem to need a pivotal event to really get things done. I'd much rather start early, when there's no real problems to hinder or distract you, and get done what will need to be done without any panic.
We do need to get off the planet at some point and we've got the technology to do it right now, we should be doing it.
But yes, the global financial state isn't conducive to such things right now and won't be for a while.