Terrorists in Europe
 

When you don't call Hamas a terrorist organization it's axiomatic that anything they blow up and kill is not a terrorist act. Seems to be largely a matter of definitions.

Facts lie all the time. That's why we call it history not chemistry.

I'm not worried. I think 'terrorism' in the west is for the most part, nonsense.

This one is a bit rich! The fact is that 9/11 happened. It was carried out by fanatics who happened to be Muslim Arabs. And they were not alone, they were backed up and funded by other fanatics who happened to be Muslim Arabs. So, it wasn't a question of what the United States needed or what it sought .... it was a question of what actually happened and who caused it!

Having said that, I for one don't want to demonize and vilify all Muslims. I want to live in peace with Muslims and I want to have Muslim friends (and I do) but having said that, I object to attempts to falsify what happened in 9/11 and to shift the blame for it!

Let's try this on for size. If Saddam Hussein wasn't responsible for 9/11, then why spend a couple of years insinuating his name into every discussion of Al Qaida and Terrorism? It was a lie, a big lie and its use as a propaganda tool along with the second lie about WMDs enabled Bush and company to fashion a case for a costly war that had nothing to do with fighting terrorism, which in fact has sent us backwards from the progress we made in Afghanistan.

As for the real Muslims, they're shooting terrorists in Algeria, hunting them down in Morocco and on the border of Pakistan. I'll tell you what's more, there are more than 15 of them. There are more real Muslims than all the terrorists in the world by a factor of many times.

Even though we have mostly disagreed, nevertheless, from our encounters on this forum, I have formed the opinion that you are basically a decent person. When I say that I don't want to have Muslims vilified and demonized I have people like you in mind. So, I just cannot fathom why on earth so many of you guys are so up in arms about what happened to Saddam and his regime. You are saying he wasn't part of Al Quaida? He didn't support terrorism? He didn't have WMD's? It was all a big lie? Well, I don't think you are entirely right! He may or may not have fostered Al Quaida, let's just say there is no indisputable proof for it, so for the sake of argument, let's just say that he didn't. He did however support terrorism, that is indisputable and yes, he did have WMDs! Were they all recovered by the time of the invasion? Maybe, then again, maybe they are well hidden either somewhere in Iraq or in Syria but really, it's irrelevant because it's an indisputable fact that he did have them in the past and he did use them in the past on the Kurds and the Iranians! So, did the invasion of Iraq occurred as a result of a big lie? Again maybe and perhaps probably but that's not even the point .... the point is that it should have happened many years before! Indeed, Saddam should have been toppled right after Gulf war 1! Why? Because he and his regime represented all that is evil in this world! He and his regime were responsible for the deaths of over one million Muslims! He oppressed and killed his own people, he invaded neighbouring countries, he fostered terrorism in the region, I would have thought that all good Muslims and Arabs would have rejoiced about his downfall. Certainly, they should! You guys should have been cheering along with the rest of us.... Aren't we always saying that the fight shouldn't be a clash of civilizations? It shouldn't be between Christians/Jews (this time around) against the Muslims? Aren't we saying that it should be us? Christian, Jew and Muslim against all the extremists? Against all the fanatics? And by all accounts, Saddam and his regime was all that can be described as evil!!!!

I can only speak about the situation in the UK.
In a similar discussion Aviva convinced me that the mainstream Muslims are not doing what is necessary to convince people that the terrorists are not Muslim.

We get fascists freely and openly authorise killing of "the infidels" in well-known and respected mosques, while the "good" Muslims leaders keep their heads in sand and go on about their daily prayer.

As long as this inaction by Muslim leaders continues, it will be very difficult for non-Muslim to make the distinction.

The problem of convincing does not solely lie in the realm of terrorist acts. When you have attitudes like this:

"Hands off Muslims!" and "UK — You will pay!" "They bomb us, and occupy our land, and here they arrest at you early in the morning!" he said, to cries of "UK — You will pay!" and shouts of "Allahu Akbar! (God is Great)" "One day, my dear Muslims, the flag of Islam will fly over Downing Street!" he said, to renewed shouts of "Allah Akbar!" Source>>

Normal well balanced people realise that this is not the attitude of the UK's Muslim majority, but the problem is that the average person doesn't hear silence, and they scare easy.