[DeilMikina]

Pakistan probably knew the location of OBL and just didnt tell us.
After all, they arent really an ally, more of an acquaintance.
And besides he was right next to their capital, so wither Pakistani security is so poor they didnt notice, or they just ignored him. I think towards the latter.

I wouldn't have said probably.

[NanoGordeno]

Heard Musharraf this morning saying that he actually likely took morning runs right by the walls of the damn place.

Some in the Pakistani Army likely knew. But, that's going to have to remain irrelevant.

[Discus]

Heard Musharraf this morning saying that he actually likely took morning runs right by the walls of the damn place.

Some in the Pakistani Army likely knew. But, that's going to have to remain irrelevant.

Yeah.

"Oh, look, someone built a fortress across the street from the military academy. We should not find out who built it. Let's just pretend it doesn't exist."

"OK"

[pitoufsd]

Yeah.

"Oh, look, someone built a fortress across the street from the military academy. We should not find out who built it. Let's just pretend it doesn't exist."

"OK"

Well, I know that this is all a big stretch for us - especially those of us who have never been to foreign lands (especially lands as foreign as these). There are just different ways of looking at things.

They talk about how the locals looked at it - that whoever lived there was a) wealthy and b) had a tribal feud that required secrecy and security just to live there.

Such things are completely foreign to us, but make perfect sense in that part of the world. But, do I suspect that some in the army understood who lived there? Absolutely. I still hold that we must be very, very careful about what we do about that knowledge.

[cut sifted ephedra sinica]

And, again, what expertise do you base this upon? Where did you get your Masters in International Studies?

Try reading a few books on Muslims--especially those that grew up in the middle east and are living in the US now. In those books they will explain the incidents of lying to protect ones honor is O.K. for muslim males. You should know this already anyway--how many instances in the U.S have we witnessed teenage daughters getting killed by their fathers over the fathers "honor?" It's called honor killings.

[aquadayAquaks]

Well, I know that this is all a big stretch for us - especially those of us who have never been to foreign lands (especially lands as foreign as these). There are just different ways of looking at things.

They talk about how the locals looked at it - that whoever lived there was a) wealthy and b) had a tribal feud that required secrecy and security just to live there.

Such things are completely foreign to us, but make perfect sense in that part of the world. But, do I suspect that some in the army understood who lived there? Absolutely. I still hold that we must be very, very careful about what we do about that knowledge.

Pram give it up, for peat's sake, here is a huge million dollar compound which is walled to the hilt and no one asks a question? I mean it never entered anyone's mind who the hell lives there. This is like, NO we all know who lives there and that's OK with us. Mum's the word.

[Hdzcxqoi]

Sometimes it is best to just pretend an event never happened. I presume the US, if asked by Pakistan about the incursion into their space, will have no idea what the Pakistanis are talking about. "There is no record of any such event, but we will certainly look into it and get back to you" sounds like the correct answer to me.

If the Pakistanis push on it, I suspect the next statement will be along the lines of "We are looking in to the matter right now. If it turns out that there is no further need for us to be involved in the region, we will be withdrawing our presence, including our $1 billion military aide package to Pakistan. Are you requesting that we expedite the review and have a quick response for you?"

[Cabinanteerip]

Sometimes it is best to just pretend an event never happened. I presume the US, if asked by Pakistan about the incursion into their space, will have no idea what the Pakistanis are talking about. "There is no record of any such event, but we will certainly look into it and get back to you" sounds like the correct answer to me.

Sounds like a good answer to me, hell we've being flying drones into their country and bombing the hell out of the place and killing Innocent civilians.

If the Pakistanis push on it, I suspect the next statement will be along the lines of "We are looking in to the matter right now. If it turns out that there is no further need for us to be involved in the region, we will be withdrawing our presence, including our $1 billion military aide package to Pakistan. Are you requesting that we expedite the review and have a quick response for you?"

Hey Pakistan is a has-been, and we know it. We could blow that place up and nothing would be said. Christ we've been giving then aid and they have been spitting in our face. Blow the fucking place up.

[glopomcyte]

Henry Kissenger is talking with Greta Van Sustren--and he just stated it is inconcievable that they didn't know that Bin Laden was in that location.

[Theateetetuig]

Sounds like a good answer to me, hell we've being flying drones into their country and bombing the hell out of the place and killing Innocent civilians.



Hey Pakistan is a has-been, and we know it. We could blow that place up and nothing would be said. Christ we've been giving then aid and they have been spitting in our face. Blow the fucking place up.

Excepting for the little item that Pakistan is a nuclear power, with the ability to do some of its own blowing up, if pushed to it.

[jenilopaz]

Let's face it folks: Pakistan protected OBL and basically lied to us straight to our faces with their hands in our pockets -- plain and simple.

What do we do now? A country with about 200 million people (I think over 97% Muslims) with nukes to boot. We (as well as our allies) have given them billions in aid -- and for what? So they can give us the collective finger?

What do we do? First of all we don't give them a single dollar more until we sort this out -- that should be a simple decision day 1 post-OBL. Right? What am I missing?

[gghrdfffhfyj]

Let's face it folks: Pakistan protected OBL and basically lied to us straight to our faces with their hands in our pockets -- plain and simple.

What do we do now? A country with about 200 million people (I think over 97% Muslims) with nukes to boot. We (as well as our allies) have given them billions in aid -- and for what? So they can give us the collective finger?

What do we do? First of all we don't give them a single dollar more until we sort this out -- that should be a simple decision day 1 post-OBL. Right? What am I missing?

what you're missing is that the US should also stop aiding and abetting the un-elected tyrants in Yemen, Jordan, Morocco, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and so on, declare victory in the Mid-East, and bring the US Foreign Legion home, but it ain't never gonna happen. "Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb, bomb Iran"-McCain.

[Izzy]

If Obama wanted to hit another home run he'd cut the 3.4 BILLION we will hand Pakistan this year. Better yet, tell them to deliver us some more of the wanted terrorists that make Pakistan their personal preserve and we'll consider reinstating aid.

[TiepayWrary]

IMHO, that's an extremely dangerous view. As someone (forgot who was being interviewed) on NPR said this morning - Pakistan is a country of 200 million people with a large nuclear arsenal - it is too big to fail. We cannot afford to allow that nuclear arsenal to fall into the wrong hands, and if Pakistan collapses (it is perpetually on the verge), such a thing is quite likely.

Yes but we do not need a large military footprint in the area. It just exacerbates the issue with Americans an Islam. All we need is good covert ops teams in place working low-profile to keep up with the happenings and with enough juice in reserve to tamp down any threats quickly and as quietly as possible. We obviously have the resources and technology to do this and it would be far cheaper than trying to maintain a full battery of military personnel from all four branches who will be under constant attack just for their presence.

We need to take the low and slow strategy as opposed to the loud and proud tactics we are employing now. Out of site is out of mind.

[OnlineViagraCheapestFREE]

Try reading a few books on Muslims--especially those that grew up in the middle east and are living in the US now. In those books they will explain the incidents of lying to protect ones honor is O.K. for muslim males. You should know this already anyway--how many instances in the U.S have we witnessed teenage daughters getting killed by their fathers over the fathers "honor?" It's called honor killings.

Why don't you list some of these books that have made you an expert?

And, yes, how many instances of honor killings have we seen in the US? An exact number would be great.

Pram give it up, for peat's sake, here is a huge million dollar compound which is walled to the hilt and no one asks a question? I mean it never entered anyone's mind who the hell lives there. This is like, NO we all know who lives there and that's OK with us. Mum's the word.

Peat? Great flavor in whisky.

Again, do you have any real insights or education into the culture, or are you trying to view things through your own cultural experience?

[sonsayx]

Yes but we do not need a large military footprint in the area. It just exacerbates the issue with Americans an Islam. All we need is good covert ops teams in place working low-profile to keep up with the happenings and with enough juice in reserve to tamp down any threats quickly and as quietly as possible. We obviously have the resources and technology to do this and it would be far cheaper than trying to maintain a full battery of military personnel from all four branches who will be under constant attack just for their presence.

We need to take the low and slow strategy as opposed to the loud and proud tactics we are employing now. Out of site is out of mind.

Oh, I'm not saying anything about a military footprint. I'm talking about maintaining positive relations with Pakistan. That's a whole different thing.

[vTLWqa1l]

Yes but we do not need a large military footprint in the area. It just exacerbates the issue with Americans an Islam. All we need is good covert ops teams in place working low-profile to keep up with the happenings and with enough juice in reserve to tamp down any threats quickly and as quietly as possible. We obviously have the resources and technology to do this and it would be far cheaper than trying to maintain a full battery of military personnel from all four branches who will be under constant attack just for their presence.

We need to take the low and slow strategy as opposed to the loud and proud tactics we are employing now. Out of site is out of mind.

What about Iraq and Afganistan. The choppers for this attack were launched from Afganistan.

Let's face it--not that I believe this--but let's just say that they didn't know that Bin Laden was living next door to a military academy?

If they didn't know that--how can we just assume that they know what is going on with their nukes?

I agree 100%--cut them off.

[Queueftof]

Pakistan probably knew the location of OBL and just didnt tell us.
After all, they arent really an ally, more of an acquaintance.

First of all, I don't think it's fair to say that Pakistan isn't our ally.

Pakistan is the "port" through which all American military supplies going into Afghanistan pass through. This has been the case for going on ten years now. The alternative to Pakistan? Iran or go home.

Pakistan has also been very cool recently about allowing our forces to attack AQ/Taliban elements along its border.

Given the political situation in Pakistan and the prevelance of Islamism it's amazing they've even given us that much.

OUR war on terror in Afghanistan has destabilized Pakistan to the point where they're fighting a de facto civil war along their western border.

You don't call that an alliance?

We consider Israel an ally and they don't do dick for us. They certainly haven't bent over backwards to the degree Pakistan has.

What you're failing to take into consideration, in my opinion, is that full-scale support from Pakistan in the GWOT would probably lead to a full scale war in Pakistan that would overthrow the existing government, install a theocracy, and oh yeah, Pakistan has nuclear weapons.

I think Pakistan has done everything that they could reasonably support our mission in the region.

To help us at the expense of destroying their country isn't something I'd expect, or even ask, any nation to do.

And besides he was right next to their capital, so wither Pakistani security is so poor they didnt notice, or they just ignored him. I think towards the latter. He was located in a walled compound and in all likelyhood didn't stick his head up too much.

I'm sure that some folks suspected that there was a person of interest living on the compound based on the same circumstantial that the White House is releasing in respect to our tracking him down.

But who exactly was living on the compound was likely a secret.

It could have been anyone, and people were coming and going from the compound all the time. There's no reason that I can think of for anyone to suspect that the people who were coming and going weren't the only occupants of the property.

If bin Laden was living on a walled compound on an acre of property in Virginia, right under the nose of the U.S. governmnet, the CIA, and within a few miles of the Naval Base from which the JSOC SEALs who were involved in this mission, and he didn't stick his head up, we probably would never know thhat he was there.

Would that make the U.S. government complicit in some wild conspiracy to harbor terrorists?

As for the "Pakistani version of West Point" being located in Abbottabad, so what?

Have you ever dealt with West Point cadets or shave tail 2nd LT's?

I have. By and large they're idiots.

Bin Laden could have been attending West Point and his peers probably wouldn't have noticed it...

[topcasinobonua]

Yeah.

"Oh, look, someone built a fortress across the street from the military academy. We should not find out who built it. Let's just pretend it doesn't exist."

"OK"

Fortress is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

The concrete wall isn't all that dissimilar from the walls which line the streets of South Hampton, NY. I live in the city so walls aren't all that possible here but I did visit a customer's home upstate whose entire property was lined with a twelve foot stockade fence. Of course that might be a poor example as he bought the house after it was ceased by the FBI in a drug bust.

[drycleden]

Fortress is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

The concrete wall isn't all that dissimilar from the walls which line the streets of South Hampton, NY. I live in the city so walls aren't all that possible here but I did visit a customer's home upstate whose entire property was lined with a twelve foot stockade fence. Of course that might be a poor example as he bought the house after it was ceased by the FBI in a drug bust.

do they have barbed wire on top?