[wrewsTear]

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At 5:00 in Panetta says that there was a 'kill order' for OBL only if he 'threw up his hands' were they to take him alive

The Obama appointed CIA chief also admitted today that intelligence gleaned from enhanced interrogating techniques led the US to Osama Bin Laden. 8:50 in


Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him, CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday.

“Enhanced interrogation techniques” were used to extract information that led to the mission’s success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.

Panetta, who in a 2009 CIA confirmation hearing declared “waterboarding is torture and it’s wrong,” said Tuesday that debate about its use will continue.

“Whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always gonna be an open question,” Panetta said. The last time I checked Panetta was a Democrat.

This should put these two issues to rest...

[Hmntezmb]

He actually didn't say waterboarding worked, he admitted it was something that was used.

When they waterboarded KSM and asked for him to provide the names of couriers, he told them nothing. When they asked him about a specific courier to Bin Laden, he kept denying it, and they took from that that he was lying, and that's what little the chicken hawks have to say waterboarding works.

The NSA and deputy NSA have repeated that KSM gave the US no actionable intel during the over 100 times he had been waterboarded, but gave up lots of info a year later when he was comfortable and being treated well.

Larry Wilkerson, former Chief of Staff to Colin Powell and a Republican, says of course it doesn't work, and one of the reasons why they didn't go after one of the couriers long ago was because they didn't glean the right information from KSM when they were torturing him.

He went on to say on the news the other day that yet another former CIA official is releasing a book next month titled "Interrogator" and the man explicitly states in his book that waterboarding is ineffective for landing good information because the person being tortured can never be counted on to give accurate information.

The NSA was clear to say yesterday that if you look at the interview carefully, Panetta never said that it was effective or not, but that it had been used.

Liz Cheney is trying to make the same case, but she's just another chicken hawk who doesn't know a lick about interrogation.

That's the thing with this so-called "debate"; the know-nothings think they know everything while one expert after another debunks the claims. That means there isn't a real debate, just a bunch of noise from neo-cons and people who watch too much t.v. and think the world works like an episode of "24".

[HwoRas1]

The book is called "The Interrogator: An Education" by former CIA guy Glenn Carle, and he'll be yet another in a long line of folks to completely debunk Cheney the chicken hawk, who helped lead the way on a torture policy that actually set America back on the war on terror because torture will get people to say any damned thing in order for you to stop torturing them, and not necessarily the accurate thing you need to know.

It's ironic that KSM spilled the beans a whole year later when he wasn't being tortured anymore and they finally figured out that if you just treat a prisoner with respect and dignity and give them food they like, they'll actually volunteer information without you even having to ask.

I can't wait to read this book.

Here's a link to it at Amazon. Amazon.com: The Interrogator: An Education (9781568586731): Glenn L. Carle: Books

[occafeVes]

He actually didn't say waterboarding worked, he admitted it was something that was used.

What part of:

“Enhanced interrogation techniques” were used to extract information that led to the mission’s success, Panetta said

Was not clear to you?

[lymnCymment]

Does anyone else find it creepy that the resident Xtian fundy is delighting over the prospect that government torture may be here to stay?

[ChebuRAtoR]

From the interview, Panetta says, "I'm saying that the debate whether we would've gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always going to be an open question".

Which essentially means if you waterboard me 99 times and you say "Is John Smith the courier! Is John Smith the courier!" and I keep saying "No! No! I don't know who the couriers are" and then the 100th time you waterboard me I say "ok, yes! John Smith is the courier", that's pretty shady, and if tsquare is the interrogator jumping up and down in the room going "see! he admitted it!", the ground you're standing on is pretty shaky at best.

[fajerdoksdsaaker]

What part of:

“Enhanced interrogation techniques” were used to extract information that led to the mission’s success, Panetta said

Was not clear to you?

Stop thinking in black and white.

Panetta isn't right because he's a Democrat, and the Cheney's aren't wrong because they're Republicans.

There are no credible sources out there saying that in fact it works.

Panetta is covering his ass in that interview and covering for all those that came before him, because they know it's illegal and not in the field manual.

[grudabor]

We don't know what information was obtained by what means. We probably never will.

All this conjecture - on both sides - is simply that.

[HsSp82U8]

We don't know what information was obtained by what means. We probably never will.

All this conjecture - on both sides - is simply that.

I hope that the Director of CIA would be speaking more than conjecture... But you might be right.

[Penisvergroesserung]

Of course it did. And its driving the left nuts. All the debate over whether to release the photo, the conflicted battlefield accounts, everything after the fatal shot is the left feeling sleazy for doing what the rest of the country believes is the right thing.

And waterboarding is still not torture.

[paulaglober]

What we know of the situation is dynamic, as more information is released, reliable as well as planted our understanding may change.

From what I could read thus far on the topic, the best information came from a captured al qaeda member who was waterboarded but didn't reveal anything until months later under regular interrogation - where he revealed indirectly that communications with Bin Laden were done via courier.

[nancywind]

Hmmmmmm.where's Sadanie? She claims it is Foxnews that made up this story.

[foodselfdourileka]

They haven't waterboarded anyone in 8 years, you seriously believe that the events of this year were all based on information obtained 8 years ago?

maybe you should read this
http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings...42&wit_id=7906

[Hervams]

What we know of the situation is dynamic, as more information is released, reliable as well as planted our understanding may change.

From what I could read thus far on the topic, the best information came from a captured al qaeda member who was waterboarded but didn't reveal anything until months later under regular interrogation - where he revealed indirectly that communications with Bin Laden were done via courier.

But that contradicts what Panetta said. He stated, directly, that inhanced "interrogation techniques" provided [at least some, presumably] intel that led to bin Laden's death.

[Erunsenef]

You guys can defend torture all that you want. Torture is torture, and something that we have seen as evil, as we should. My America would never engage in torture. The end never justifies the means. We either have noble principles and try to live by them or we join folks such as Stalin and Hitler's Germany, just two of many who have indulged in evil deeds.

Yet I am not surprised by so many willing to indulge in torture, as we no longer respect human life, that is in the womb. We are slowly becoming the Romans, a little bit at at time, until one day we will not resemble what America used to be, and what America stood for.

I would have rather let Bin Laden remain free than to undermine America's principles, if I had that choice. But principles and morality is quickly losing its previous popularity, and it is a sad day for America. We have become what we used to despise. Ironic.

[Xbcofega]

But that contradicts what Panetta said. He stated, directly, that inhanced "interrogation techniques" provided [at least some, presumably] intel that led to bin Laden's death.

If you waterboard someone and ask them what the color of the sky is, and they say "red" and then later through normal interrogation they tell you the sky is blue, does that mean that enhanced interrogation gave you vital information?

[EliteFranceska]

They haven't waterboarded anyone in 8 years, you seriously believe that the events of this year were all based on information obtained 8 years ago?

maybe you should read this
Testimony

do you seriously believe that hey haven't waterboarded anyone in 8 years?

C'mon, next thing you'll be telling me the Paki govt didn't know shit about UBL's whereabouts.

[syptopsygieds]

They haven't waterboarded anyone in 8 years, you seriously believe that the events of this year were all based on information obtained 8 years ago?

maybe you should read this
Testimony

But that contradicts what Panetta said. He stated, directly, that inhanced "interrogation techniques" provided [at least some, presumably] intel that led to bin Laden's death.

Like darth omar all I know is what the DIRECTOR OD CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE is telling us.

goober, is Leon Panetta lying to the media? If so, is he under orders to do so?

If you think THAT, what can we believe that this administration is telling us?

[bestonlinepharmasy2]

We don't know what information was obtained by what means. We probably never will.

All this conjecture - on both sides - is simply that.

That's not true.

One insider after another comes out to tell us how it really is, while the Cheney's and Bill Kristol and other chicken hawks tell themselves that hands down it works.

One CIA person after another has testified over the last few years, and every year gives us more and more books of information on how "enhanced interrogation" techniques slow the whole process down.

Again, if you torture me and keep asking if John Smith is OBL's courier and I say no 182 times as KSM did, but on the 183rd time I say yes so that you stop torturing me, if you then go on that as hard evidence you're a great big fool.

Bin Laden Raid Revives Debate on Value of Torture - NYTimes.com

But a closer look at prisoner interrogations suggests that the harsh techniques played a small role at most in identifying Bin Laden’s trusted courier and exposing his hide-out. One detainee who apparently was subjected to some tough treatment provided a crucial description of the courier, according to current and former officials briefed on the interrogations. But two prisoners who underwent some of the harshest treatment — including Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times — repeatedly misled their interrogators about the courier’s identity. A "small role at most" is the furthest anyone is going on this.

Neo-cons are simply trying to shape a narrative that says Obama was simply lucky since Bush's harsh techniques saved the day and led American intel to Bin Laden, when the truth is that torture slows the process down and forces people to do double-takes on everything they're getting from detainees.

If you say 2+2=5 when reality is that it doesn't, that doesn't make it a "debate".

If CIA agents who've been detailing this stuff in testimonials and in books were going the other way, I'd believe that, but they're not.

The only people going that way are neo-con chicken hawks without SEARS training or anything else but what they've made up on their own while sitting around telling each other that "24" is the basis of their argument.

[PlayboyAtWork]

Like darth omar all I know is what the DIRECTOR OD CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE is telling us.

goober, is Leon Panetta lying to the media? If so, is he under orders to do so?

If you think THAT, what can we believe that this administration is telling us?

The Director of the CIA told us it's an open question at best.

You're grasping at straws.