[ENGINESSQ]

You guys all seem to think that free speech is absolute, that is far from the case. Libel and Slander is not protected and never has been.

Nor is shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater.

Speech that knowingly puts others at extreme risk of life or limb for no reason is not protected under the First Amendment. This is established fact of long standing, there's no dispute over it. The animals that killed the UN people should be hunted down and killed like mad dogs but the pastor should be prosecuted for manslaughter as well. He is equally responsible, as he, or anyone of common sense, should have known this would happen

The right of Free Speech does not excuse depraved indifference to whether one's actions result in another's death. You can have as big and as fast a car as you like, but if you drive it in a school zone at 100mph and kill someone's child, you should be liable for the consequences.

[ArraryTauTDew]

Though they dominate the democratic party, "progressives" know no party boundaries.

So long as people look to the government to solve their problems, there will someone of all flavors to serve.

Hell, the American People cannot look to gov't these days for much at all. The gov't no longer serves the People, it is serving a small group of elites. The gov't by and for the People is one helluva joke.

[Bigroza]

Speech that knowingly puts others at extreme risk of life or limb for no reason is not protected under the First Amendment. This is established fact of long standing, there's no dispute over it. The animals that killed the UN people should be hunted down and killed like mad dogs but the pastor should be prosecuted for manslaughter as well. He is equally responsible, as he, or anyone of common sense, should have known this would happen

The right of Free Speech does not excuse depraved indifference to whether one's actions result in another's death. You can have as big and as fast a car as you like, but if you drive it in a school zone at 100mph and kill someone's child, you should be liable for the consequences.

The guy burned a fucking book, John. He is not responsible for how the those filth overseas react to it. He is entitled to his opinion and entitled to express that opinion.

The difference between this and, for example, libel and slander is that he didn't make up lies about anyone or accuse them of something he knew to be false. Your car scenario also falls on its face because he wasn't 'behind the steering wheel', so-to-speak. He didn't incite anyone to violence, or give them the means.

[elton]

You guys all seem to think that free speech is absolute, that is far from the case. Libel and Slander is not protected and never has been.

Nor is shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater.

Speech that knowingly puts others at extreme risk of life or limb for no reason is not protected under the First Amendment. This is established fact of long standing, there's no dispute over it. The animals that killed the UN people should be hunted down and killed like mad dogs but the pastor should be prosecuted for manslaughter as well. He is equally responsible, as he, or anyone of common sense, should have known this would happen

The right of Free Speech does not excuse depraved indifference to whether one's actions result in another's death. You can have as big and as fast a car as you like, but if you drive it in a school zone at 100mph and kill someone's child, you should be liable for the consequences.

I want the right to burn whatever book I want to. Ah, it's the old song of taking away rights so we can be secure, is it?

While that pastor is a nut, he committed no crime, under our laws. He hates Islam and made it known. Why should the news not also be held accountable? If they had not covered it, no one would have known!!!

Ah, freedom of the press..., freedom of speech... and some want to take that away? For what? Security? Stinks too much of dictatorships to me. Thousands have died to protect our rights, and some want to take those away because a few got killed by crazy religious loons?

I don't like any book being burned, but I think we here have that right. We have the right to be idiots. Wait!! I guess not, as we mandate seat belts and other shit. Never mind.

[Thomaswhitee]

You guys all seem to think that free speech is absolute, that is far from the case. Libel and Slander is not protected and never has been.

Nor is shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater.

Speech that knowingly puts others at extreme risk of life or limb for no reason is not protected under the First Amendment. This is established fact of long standing, there's no dispute over it. The animals that killed the UN people should be hunted down and killed like mad dogs but the pastor should be prosecuted for manslaughter as well. He is equally responsible, as he, or anyone of common sense, should have known this would happen

The right of Free Speech does not excuse depraved indifference to whether one's actions result in another's death. You can have as big and as fast a car as you like, but if you drive it in a school zone at 100mph and kill someone's child, you should be liable for the consequences.

John, that's a really bad analogy.

Driving recklessly naturally results in dangers to pedestrians.

Burning a book on the other side of the planet should have no immediate hazards beyond possibly burning yourself in the process.

To prosecute someone over a book burning for reasons other than fire violations just legitimizes violent responses. It's equally as foolish as the curtailing of liberties that resulted from people trying to hijack planes.

I think most of us recognize the foolishness of the TSA and the Patriot Act, but it should also be recognized that this talk of restricting free speech is in the same boat.

[Jeffery]

Just like some Americans cannot distinguish between the ideals represented by a flag and the pieces of cloth that sometimes get burned.

The Afghan people are a very proud people. They have nothing else other than their pride and their religion. By defacing the Koran you are shitting all over anything that they have, leaving the expression of their frustration and outrage as understandable and expected.

The asshole unchristian preacher knew this and is simply an attention whore. If everyone ignored him the whole issue would go away.

He ghas freedom of speech but the media could simply decide that he is not newsworthy and ignore him so he can quietly crawl back under his favourite rock.

Who is the most dangerous? A man who burns a book, or a man who kills someone else because a man burned a book on the other side of the world?

If Allah cared if the Koran was burned, he would have personally smote the bad preacher. Apparently, Allah did not give a shit.

How about this? You are a Christian. I burned your Bible and you killed me. Who committed the worse offense? Give up?

[saruxanset]

John, that's a really bad analogy.

Driving recklessly naturally results in dangers to pedestrians.

Burning a book on the other side of the planet should have no immediate hazards beyond possibly burning yourself in the process.

To prosecute someone over a book burning for reasons other than fire violations just legitimizes violent responses. It's equally as foolish as the curtailing of liberties that resulted from people trying to hijack planes.

I think most of us recognize the foolishness of the TSA and the Patriot Act, but it should also be recognized that this talk of restricting free speech is in the same boat.

Agreed.

I mean, if we go down this road, all some anti-flag buring nut would have to do is kill someone (or a group of people), citing some one else buring the flag as his reasoning. *poof* flag burning is illegal.

[JRixlcvF]

well, we hope....

Never, ever bet against the stupidity of government.

[Thydaysuh]

Hell, the American People cannot look to gov't these days for much at all. The gov't no longer serves the People, it is serving a small group of elites. The gov't by and for the People is one helluva joke.

It serves many separate minorities, who in turn serve certain elites, but it doesn't do the former a damn bit of good.

[JohnVK]

John, that's a really bad analogy.

Driving recklessly naturally results in dangers to pedestrians.

Burning a book on the other side of the planet should have no immediate hazards beyond possibly burning yourself in the process.

To prosecute someone over a book burning for reasons other than fire violations just legitimizes violent responses. It's equally as foolish as the curtailing of liberties that resulted from people trying to hijack planes.

I think most of us recognize the foolishness of the TSA and the Patriot Act, but it should also be recognized that this talk of restricting free speech is in the same boat.

And publicly burning a Koran results in dangers to our soldiers and all the rest of our citizen's overseas, and everyone knows it will. It may not be right but it is a fact and a well-known one.

I don't see the actions of the TSA as foolish. As for the Patriot Act that depends. If it legitimately makes me safer I'm all for it, whether it "curtails my freedom" or not....dead men aren't free, just dead.

And please spare me the Franklin quote.. or misquote as it's usually done. What was said is: "They that can give up essential (my italics) liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." I don't see at all how this asshole burning a Koran was in any way an "essential" liberty for him. If he had just pounded it and said "this is an evil book and should be burned, but I won't, as that would place our soldiers in jeopardy", then he would have made the exact same point. As it is, I regard him as a traitor to our country, for giving aid and comfort to the enemy by justifying (in their eyes, not mine or any sane person's ) their murderous actions against the people who died.

Eleven innocent people shouldn't have died to protect this asshole's "freedom" to perform a meaningless gesture. He knew it would happen, hell, he was probably counting on it to give him more publicity. The actual murderers should be hanged. He should be tried and convicted for manslaughter, if not treason

[duncanalisstmp]

Terry Jones is an asshole. I cannot comprehend why anyone would think that his actions help any sort of debate. It is a crude attempt by him and his followers to feel better about their style of dialogue and beliefs. It is religion at its worst. Just book burning alone puts you in a crowd one should be embarrassed at the very least to be with.

That being said, he is not accountable for someone killing others, even if it was on your own block. Everyone is accountable for his own actions. And while Terry Jones's actions are deplorable, he did not kill anyone and he did not break the law. It's not a crime to be an asshole in the U.S. But, while he did not break the law, he deserves every bit of bad press he is getting.

[9V4i8xw1]

Just like some Americans cannot distinguish between the ideals represented by a flag and the pieces of cloth that sometimes get burned.

The Afghan people are a very proud people. They have nothing else other than their pride and their religion. By defacing the Koran you are shitting all over anything that they have, leaving the expression of their frustration and outrage as understandable and expected.

The asshole unchristian preacher knew this and is simply an attention whore. If everyone ignored him the whole issue would go away.

He ghas freedom of speech but the media could simply decide that he is not newsworthy and ignore him so he can quietly crawl back under his favourite rock.

I would disagree that it is "understandable." It is not understandable by civilized people IMO. To say this it is is quite outrageous.

[tattcasetle]

And publicly burning a Koran results in dangers to our soldiers and all the rest of our citizen's overseas, and everyone knows it will. It may not be right but it is a fact and a well-known one.

I don't see the actions of the TSA as foolish. As for the Patriot Act that depends. If it legitimately makes me safer I'm all for it, whether it "curtails my freedom" or not....dead men aren't free, just dead.

And please spare me the Franklin quote.. or misquote as it's usually done. What was said is: "They that can give up essential (my italics) liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." I don't see at all how this asshole burning a Koran was in any way an "essential" liberty for him. If he had just pounded it and said "this is an evil book and should be burned, but I won't, as that would place our soldiers in jeopardy", then he would have made the exact same point. As it is, I regard him as a traitor to our country, for giving aid and comfort to the enemy by justifying (in their eyes, not mine or any sane person's ) their murderous actions against the people who died.

Eleven innocent people shouldn't have died to protect this asshole's freedom to perform a meaningless gesture. He knew it would happen, hell, he was probably counting on it to give him more publicity. The actual murderers should be hanged. He should be tried and convicted for manslaughter, if not treason

I would consider all liberty "essential" at least the ones stated in the Constitution.

[KinicsBonee]

If this story tells us anything it's that Islam desperately needs to be insulted MORE not less.

Honestly, who has such thin skin that they can get worked up into a murderous frenzy over something as inconsequential as a peaceful, albeit insulting, political demonstration?

[Yifnvmzp]

And publicly burning a Koran results in dangers to our soldiers and all the rest of our citizen's overseas, and everyone knows it will. It may not be right but it is a fact and a well-known one.

I don't see the actions of the TSA as foolish. As for the Patriot Act that depends. If it legitimately makes me safer I'm all for it, whether it "curtails my freedom" or not....dead men aren't free, just dead.

And please spare me the Franklin quote.. or misquote as it's usually done. What was said is: "They that can give up essential (my italics) liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." I don't see at all how this asshole burning a Koran was in any way an "essential" liberty for him. If he had just pounded it and said "this is an evil book and should be burned, but I won't, as that would place our soldiers in jeopardy", then he would have made the exact same point. As it is, I regard him as a traitor to our country, for giving aid and comfort to the enemy by justifying (in their eyes, not mine or any sane person's ) their murderous actions against the people who died.

Eleven innocent people shouldn't have died to protect this asshole's "freedom" to perform a meaningless gesture. He knew it would happen, hell, he was probably counting on it to give him more publicity. The actual murderers should be hanged. He should be tried and convicted for manslaughter, if not treason

You're free to hold that opinion, but I view it from the opposite perspective.

As Thor mentioned, all it takes is a small group of idiots to overreact to a flag burning for the same logic to outlaw that.

This is not a slippery slope we want to go down.

[CFstantony]

As it is, I regard him as a traitor to our country, for giving aid and comfort to the enemy by justifying (in their eyes, not mine or any sane person's ) their murderous actions against the people who died.

...

...He should be tried and convicted for manslaughter, if not treason

^ The most ignorant thing I've ever seen posted on the internet. ^

You really shouldn't allow your emotions to so easlily cloud your judgement.

[Forexampleee]

^ The most ignorant thing I've ever seen posted on the internet. ^

You really shouldn't allow your emotions to so easlily cloud your judgement.

Dont feed the trolls.

[QqJamxqP]

You're free to hold that opinion, but I view it from the opposite perspective.

As Thor mentioned, all it takes is a small group of idiots to overreact to a flag burning for the same logic to outlaw that.

This is not a slippery slope we want to go down.

AFAIK nobody has yet been killed for burning a flag. Many people have been killed for just being of the same nationality as someone who was seen as insulting Islam, let alone burning a Koran. Your slippery slope fails to establish it's contingencies as factual and therefore qualifies as an abuse of the 'transitivity of implication' . (It's neither that sloped nor that slippery in other words, )

Since nobody likes my car analogy how about a person who uncaringly lets their vicious dog kill their child? By your logic you would justifiably destroy the dog but let the irresponsible parent off scot free. Aren't our soldiers entitled to the same concern for their safety that we expect parents to give to their children?

[tipokotap]

AFAIK nobody has yet been killed for burning a flag. Many people have been killed for just being of the same nationality as someone who was seen as insulting Islam, let alone burning a Koran. Your slippery slope fails to establish it's contingencies as factual and therefore qualifies as an abuse of the 'transitivity of implication' . (It's neither that sloped nor that slippery in other words, )

Yet all it would take, according to you logic, would be for one nut to kill someone of the same race/origin/whatever as some one who bured a US flag and cite that as the reason. According to your logic the flag burner would be guilty of manslaugther. Precedent would have nothing to do with it. You are going down a slope, but just refuse to see it.

Since nobody likes my car analogy how about a person who uncaringly lets their vicious dog kill their child? By your logic you would justifiably destroy the dog but let the irresponsible parent off scot free. Aren't our soldiers entitled to the same concern for their safety that we expect parents to give to their children?

Again, your analogy falls on its face. The dog owner would have had direct control over the dog. The Pastor in question has no control over what the filth in Afghanistan used to kill with.


Stop trying to frame this in a "lets protect our soldiers" argument, because that is bullshit. You would protect us by violating the very document we are sworn to uphold. You make our oath worthless. You don't give a shit about us.

[steevytraunse]

The guy burned a fucking book, John. He is not responsible for how the those filth overseas react to it. He is entitled to his opinion and entitled to express that opinion.

If I will shout "bomb" in an airport, would police just smile and let me go ?

If I will call black people "nigers" will I be safe from charges of racism?

And if I say Holocaust is bullshit does it mean I would not be put in prison for "holocaust denial" as it is my right to "express my opinion"?

And why did the free international community as well as so many of you on this forum were baying for blood of Julian Assange claiming he was responsible for possible death of US/NATO servicemen in retaliation attacks?

You are such HYPOCRITES!