[eEwbYjOH]

This is tragic and sad.

Condemnation and condolences flowed out from across the Middle East, including Egypt Muslim Institutions and Civil leaders, Jordan's Parliament, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Morrocco, Syria, PLO, Hamas, Hezbollah..

The Sheikh of Al-Azhar, Dr. Muhammad Al-Tayyeb, condemned the attack, rejecting the possibility that Egyptians may have been involved and saying that Islam enjoined the Muslims to protect churches no less than mosques."

Saudi Arabia strongly "condemns this criminal act which neither our religion nor international norms and ethics approve of," said a foreign ministry official on state news agency SPA. It described the attack as "terrorist".

The head of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference, Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu, "condemned in the strongest terms the criminal and terrorist act".
He urged Egyptians "to disassociate themselves from attempts to instigate sedition or spread division among the people which some want to implant among them".

In Damascus an official said, "Syria strongly denounces this terrorist crime, which is targeting the national unity and religious pluralism of Egypt and other Arab countries."

The Islamist Palestinian movement Hamas also condemned the attack, saying it was "certain it was the work of elements acting against the interests of Egypt and looking to promote confrontation between Muslims and Christians".

A top Shiite Muslim leader in Lebanon, Sheikh Abdel Amir Kabalan, denounced the attack as a "terrorist act aimed at sowing chaos and fear in Egypt".
"This terrorist act bears the fingerprints of Zionists who keep on targeting religious sights and are working to ... sow discord between Muslims and Christians," Kabalan said in a statement.

King Mohammed VI of Morocco said in a letter to Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak the attack was a "crime against all of humanity" which "is banned by the values of Islam".
"This abject criminal act is contrary to the peaceful nature of the Egyptian people and the history of one of the oldest civilisations with its true traditions of tolerance and cohabitation between religions and cultures." The MEMRI Blog - Full Blog Entry
Al-ManarTV:: More Condemnations to ?Cowardly? Egypt Church Attack, Authorities Arrest 17 02/01/2011
Pope leads condemnation of Egypt church attack

[corriffuniee]

Of course the rhetoric will quickly ensue to the effect that they deserved it because they were Christians. That's your Happy New Year from Islam!

Interior ministry: Suicide bomber behind Egypt church blast - CNN.com

Well clearly the rhetoric has already begun relating to how this was a Muslim act rather than an act of terror.



Anyhow...

Did you actually read the article?

The attack was immediately condemned by the Muslim president of Egypt, the Muslim brotherhood, and Al-Azhar, the preeminent site of Sunni Islamic scholarship in the world. Egyptian Muslims demonstrated in the streets alongside Christians.

Have you looked into it any further?

Subsequently the bombing was denounced or condenmed by Hammas, Iraq, Syria, Bahrian, The Organisation of the Islamic Conference, the GCC General Secretariat, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia (and I think I missed a few of the ones I found and am sure I didn't find them all).

Most western Christian nations hadn't even had a chance to address it before the Islamic world jumped all over it.

Soooo....

You got the condemnation you all always cry about, and you've got Muslims in the community reaching out to Christians in the community, and you've got what were essentially terrorist organizations a few nyears/decades ago condenming the attack, but it's still the same old song and dance from you.

I'm no appologist for Islam or terrorism and you don't need to look to hard to find that my posting history bears that out.

But the way you began this thread, and your commentary throughout, are just ridiculous. Absofuckingloutely ridiculous.

And so the spin begins!



Copts return to scene of deadly bombing in Egypt - CNN.com

And so the asshatery continues.

You realize that Muslims were injured in the attacks? You've read that right?

You realize that this occured in a mixed community by means of a VBIED detonated in the street?

You can add right?

Put two and two together and tell me whether or not the terrorist cared how many Muslims he may have hurt or even killed.

Duuuhhhhhhhhh........ I'm waiting....

You really need to find some ulterior motive to explain Muslim outrage, condenmnation, and/or solidarity?

Again, absofuckingloutely ridiculous.

[OrefZorremn]

Well clearly the rhetoric has already begun relating to how this was a Muslim act rather than an act of terror.

Soooo, widespread Muslim persecution of Coptic Christians in Egypt and of Christians elsewhere is just a vicious rumor?

Arab Journalist Khaled Abu Toameh: Muslim Genocide Of Christians In The Middle East
It is obvious by now that the Christians in the Middle East are an "endangered species." Christians in Arab countries are no longer being persecuted; they are now being slaughtered and driven out of their homes and lands. Those who for many years turned a blind eye to complaints about the persecution of Christians in the Middle East now owe the victims an apology. Now it is clear to all that these complaints were not "Jewish propaganda." The war of genocide against Christians in the Middle East can no longer be treated as an "internal affair" of Iraq or Egypt or the Palestinians. What the West needs to understand is that radical Islam has declared jihad not only against Jews, but also against Christians. In Iraq, Egypt and the Palestinian territories, Christians are being targeted almost on a daily basis by Muslim fundamentalists and secular dictators.

Dozens of Arab Christians in Iraq have been killed in recent months in what seems to be well-planned campaign to drive them out of the country. Many Christian families have already begun fleeing Iraq out of fear for their lives. Some have chosen to start new lives in Jordan, while many others are expressing hope that they could be resettled in North America or Europe. In Egypt, the plight of the Coptic Christian minority appears to be worsening. Just this week, the Egyptian security forces killed a Coptic Christian man and wounded scores of others who were protesting against the government's intention to demolish a Christian-owned structure. Hardly a day passes without reports of violence against members of the Coptic Christian community in various parts of Egypt. Most of the attacks are carried out by Muslim fundamentalists.

According to the Barnabas Fund, an advocacy and charitable organization based in the United Kingdom, "Fears for the safety of Egyptian Christians are growing after a series of false allegations, violent threats and mass demonstrations against Christians in Egypt." Muslim anger was ignited by unfounded accusations that Egyptian Christians were aligned with Israel and stockpiling weapons in preparation for war against Muslims. The Barnabas Fund noted that Egyptian authorities have been accused of complicity for political reasons in the escalating sectarian crisis. Palestinian Christians have also been feeling the heat, although they their conditions remain much better than those of their brothers and sisters in Iraq and Egypt.

Last week, the Western-funded Palestinian Authority in the West Bank arrested a Christian journalist who reported about differences between Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and senior Fatah operative Mohammed Dahlan. The journalist, George Qanawati, manager of Radio Bethlehem 2000, was freed five days later. In the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip, the tiny Christian community is also living in fear following a spate of attacks by radical Islamic groups. The failure of the international community to pay enough attention to the dangers facing the Christians encouraged radical Muslims and corrupt dictatorships to step up their assaults on Christian individuals and institutions. When Muslim fanatics cannot kill Christian soldiers or civilians in the mountains of Afghanistan or on the streets of New York, they choose an easy prey: their Arab Christian neighbors. The West, Islam and Sharia: Muslim Genocide of Christians Throughout Middle East

[mbaueee]

Again, absofuckingloutely ridiculous.

Was Mahomet ridiculous?

Sahih Muslim 19, 4366...
It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim

[enactolaelant]

The Middle East - once the Zionist project got underway - is unstable. Israel/Egypt, Jordan, Syria, have fought several wars, the PMs of Egypt & Israel were assassinated (presumably for not being Islamic or Jewish enough), Mosques, Temples, Churches have all been attacked.

The US & now NATO intervention in Afghanistan & Iraq has not helped. We toppled Saddam in Iraq fairly quickly - but also removed the secret police state - sectarian violence, which had been held in check by the Baathist regime, was released. Afghanistan has been devastated by war against the USSR, civil war, & political violence for decades.

US/NATO & Australian, etc. military presence in Afghan & Iraq gives the Islamic radicals a peg to hang their grievances on. The moderate Muslims do not want our troops on the ground in their country. The longer we are in these countries without any positive effect for the common people - water, sewer, electricity, functioning economies, a reasonable government - the worse is our case for being there, & the more the radicals sound like they might know what they're talking about. We need to cut our losses & pull out of both countries.

We can pursue Al Queda & radical Islamists as a police matter. Boots on the ground in Islamic countries is counterproductive - better to let Islam work out their problems over there - where they won't mistake us for their problem.

[resegooredo]

Soooo, widespread Muslim persecution of Coptic Christians in Egypt and of Christians elsewhere is just a vicious rumor?

A rumor?

No.

Completly blown out of all reasonable proportion by the blogger you reference.

Absofuckingloutely.

Was Mahomet ridiculous?

Sahih Muslim 19, 4366...

No, you are ridiculous for believing that anything even close to a Majority of Muslims believe that nonsense.

[Psymoussy]

We can pursue Al Queda & radical Islamists as a police matter. Boots on the ground in Islamic countries is counterproductive - better to let Islam work out their problems over there - where they won't mistake us for their problem.

See, I think this is ridiculous too, though.

The whole of your post but particularly the part quoted.

Nobody is mistaking us for the problem.

We're being manufactured as the problem to divert aggression away from where it belongs.

But turning tail and running away doesn't make any more sense than needlessly riling people up with all this childish anti-Islam invective.

The problem is terrorism, not Islam and not America.

[sjdflghd]

Of course the rhetoric will quickly ensue to the effect that they deserved it because they were Christians. That's your Happy New Year from Islam!




Interior ministry: Suicide bomber behind Egypt church blast - CNN.com

They were Coptic Christians.
By the way Sunshine you look very nice on this photograph, you must be very pretty woman.

[itaspCatCriny]

A rumor?

No.

Completly blown out of all reasonable proportion by the blogger you reference.

Khaled Abu Toameh is the most knowledgeable and respected journalist in the Middle East.

You, on the other hand, not so much.

No, you are ridiculous for believing that anything even close to a Majority of Muslims believe that nonsense. You are severely uneducated in being utterly ignorant that the Quran and Sunnah of Muhammad are sacred Islamic texts that must be adhered to under Islamic law.

Indeed, the Sunnah in many ways is more important than the Quran. Thus, Mahomet's teachings against Christians are a basic tenet of Islam.

Now, even you know.

[itititit]

A rumor?

No.

Completly blown out of all reasonable proportion by the blogger you reference.

You're clueless.

Muslim persecution of Christians in Egypt and throughout the Middle East and, indeed, the world, is well-known.

New York Times: Mideast’s Christians Losing Numbers and Sway
Christians used to be a vital force in the Middle East. They dominated Lebanon and filled top jobs in the Palestinian movement. In Egypt, they were wealthy beyond their number. In Iraq, they packed the universities and professions. Across the region, their orientation was a vital link to the West, a counterpoint to prevailing trends.

But as Pope Benedict XVI wends his way across the Holy Land this week, he is addressing a dwindling and threatened Christian population driven to emigration by political violence, lack of economic opportunity and the rise of radical Islam. A region that a century ago was 20 percent Christian is about 5 percent today and dropping

Since it was here that Jesus walked and Christianity was born, the papal visit highlights a prospect many consider deeply troubling for the globe’s largest faith, adhered to by a third of humanity — its most powerful and historic shrines could become museum relics with no connection to those who live among them.

“I fear the extinction of Christianity in Iraq and the Middle East,” the Rev. Jean Benjamin Sleiman, the Catholic archbishop of Baghdad, said in a comment echoed across the region.

With Islam pushing aside nationalism as the central force behind the politics of identity, Christians who played important roles in various national struggles find themselves left out. And since Islamic culture, especially in its more fundamental stripes, often defines itself in contrast to the West, Christianity has in some places been relegated to an enemy — or least foreign — culture. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/wo...hristians.html

[Battwenue]

The Middle East - once the Zionist project got underway - is unstable. Israel/Egypt, Jordan, Syria, have fought several wars, the PMs of Egypt & Israel were assassinated (presumably for not being Islamic or Jewish enough), Mosques, Temples, Churches have all been attacked.

The US & now NATO intervention in Afghanistan & Iraq has not helped. We toppled Saddam in Iraq fairly quickly - but also removed the secret police state - sectarian violence, which had been held in check by the Baathist regime, was released. Afghanistan has been devastated by war against the USSR, civil war, & political violence for decades.

US/NATO & Australian, etc. military presence in Afghan & Iraq gives the Islamic radicals a peg to hang their grievances on. The moderate Muslims do not want our troops on the ground in their country. The longer we are in these countries without any positive effect for the common people - water, sewer, electricity, functioning economies, a reasonable government - the worse is our case for being there, & the more the radicals sound like they might know what they're talking about. We need to cut our losses & pull out of both countries.

We can pursue Al Queda & radical Islamists as a police matter. Boots on the ground in Islamic countries is counterproductive - better to let Islam work out their problems over there - where they won't mistake us for their problem.

One small problem with that.

It does not matter if you are there, or not. Anyone who is not a muslim is hated, simply for not being a muslim.

To a muslim you will be converted to Islam, or killed. There is no 3rd choice.

[Marinausa]

One small problem with that.

It does not matter if you are there, or not. Anyone who is not a muslim is hated, simply for not being a muslim.

To a muslim you will be converted to Islam, or killed. There is no 3rd choice.

There is a 3rd choice for Jews and Christians: Submission to Islamic rule and inferior status in dhimmitude.

[boXGWf04]

Khaled Abu Toameh is the most knowledgeable and respected journalist in the Middle East.

That's an opinion.

He's a journaliist who reports on the Arab/Islamic world for strictly Western and Israeli publications.

While I'll concede, for argument's sake, that he's knowledgable and a skilled journalist I'd hardlly consider him unbiased or "an authority".

Nice try brother, but this claim is as emptty ass aall yyour others.

You, on the other hand, not so much. Not so much what?

Not a journalist?

Agreed.

Not the most knowledgeable and respected journalist in the Middle East?

Again, not a journaliist so of logical necessity I can't be the most knowledgeable and respected journalist in the Middle East.

Very astute observation on your part all the same...

You are severely uneducated in being utterly ignorant that the Quran and Sunnah of Muhammad are sacred Islamic texts that must be adhered to under Islamic law. And you seem to be completly uneducated in how the "real world" works.

What you're saying, essentially, is that all Christians obey all 10 Commandments all of the time because the Christian texts say they must!

The simple existence of sacrament of recconciation kinda blows this stupid assumption out of the water, doesn't it?

I mean, it's aa pretty clear acknowledgement of the fact that people can not be expected to obey the book all the time in every way just becuase the book says to.

Indeed, the Sunnah in many ways is more important than the Quran. Thus, Mahomet's teachings against Christians are a basic tenet of Islam. And it's a basic tenet of Christianity that you "love your neighbor as yourself".

You could even make the argument thaat this is the second most important tenet of Christianity (after loving God).

But you'd be pretty hard pressed to find all Christians running around loving their nneighbors all the time jusst because a book says so.

Now, even you know. All I really "know" as a ressult off this discussion is that you have a very idealized and very naive view of religious scriptures and their interpetation in actual practice.

It's almost like talking to a five-year-old who's gonna stomp his feet and insist people can fly bbecaause he read it in a comic book.

[drmarshallusa]

Dead Christians are the foundation of any mosque. So put a mosque on it!

[sesWaipunsaws]

That's an opinion.

He's a journaliist who reports on the Arab/Islamic world for strictly Western and Israeli publications.

While I'll concede, for argument's sake, that he's knowledgable and a skilled journalist I'd hardlly consider him unbiased or "an authority".

Nice try brother, but this claim is as emptty ass aall yyour others.

Translation: You cannot factually refute Toameh that Muslims are mass murdering Christians.

You lose.



And you seem to be completly uneducated in how the "real world" works. Projecting.

The Quran instructs Muzzies to murder Christians.

Quran 9:5...
Then when the Sacred Months have passed, then kill the idolaters wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

Quran 9:29...
Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah[] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

[enurihent]

All I really "know" as a ressult off this discussion is that you have a very idealized and very naive view of religious scriptures and their interpetation in actual practice.

You know less than zero about Islam.

Eminent Islamic Scholar Bernard Lewis...
For most of the fourteen centuries of recorded Muslim history, jihad was most commonly interpreted to mean armed struggle for the defense or advancement of Muslim power. In Muslim tradition, the world is divided into two houses: the House of Islam (Dar al-Islam), in which Muslim governments rule and Muslim law prevails, and the House of War (Dar al-Harb), the rest of the world, still inhabited and, more important, ruled by infidels. The presumption is that the duty of jihad will continue, interrupted only by truces, until all the world either adopts the Muslim faith or submits to Muslim rule." Now, you know.

[Tainlyferfara]

What you're saying, essentially, is that all Christians obey all 10 Commandments all of the time because the Christian texts say they must!

Wall Street Journal: Even in Bethlehem, Palestinian Christians are suffering under Muslim intolerance
In 2007, one year after the Hamas takeover, the owner of Gaza's only Christian bookstore was abducted and murdered. Christian shops and schools have been firebombed.

But even here in Jesus' birthplace, which is under the control of the Palestinian Authority (PA), Christians live on a knife's edge. Mr. Ibrahim tells me that Muslims often stand in front of the gate of the Bible College and read from the Quran to intimidate Christian students. Other Muslims like to roll out their prayer rugs right in Manger Square.

Christians have only recently begun to talk about how Muslim gangs simply come and take possession of Christian-owned land while the Palestinian security services, almost exclusively staffed by Muslims, stand by. Mr. Qumsieh's own home was firebombed three years ago. The perpetrators were never caught.

Always a minority religion among the predominantly Muslim Palestinians, Christians are, Mr. Qumsieh says, "melting away," even in Bethlehem. While they represented about 80% of the city's population 60 years ago, their numbers are now down to about 20%, a result not just of Muslims' higher birth rates but also widespread Christian emigration. "Our future as a Christian community here is gloomy," Mr. Qumsieh says. Daniel Schwammenthal: Bethlehem's Persecuted Christians - WSJ.com

[KukkoDrukko]

That's an opinion.

He's a journaliist who reports on the Arab/Islamic world for strictly Western and Israeli publications.

You were clueless about Khaled Abu Toameh until I posted his article.

Then, you described him as a blogger.

Wrong. Khaled Abu Toameh is a journalist whose article appeared on someone else's blog.

You're uninformed and confused.

Khaled Abu Toameh is a Muslim Arab.

And, the West and Israel have a free press and do not oppress Christians.

Muslim countries are repressive, totalitarian dictatorships without a free press that oppress Christians.

Thus, Khaled Abu Toameh's reports of Muslim genocide of Christians would be banned in autocratic Muslim cesspools.

Muslim Genocide Of Christians In The Middle East
It is obvious by now that the Christians in the Middle East are an "endangered species." Christians in Arab countries are no longer being persecuted; they are now being slaughtered and driven out of their homes and lands. Those who for many years turned a blind eye to complaints about the persecution of Christians in the Middle East now owe the victims an apology. Now it is clear to all that these complaints were not "Jewish propaganda."

The war of genocide against Christians in the Middle East can no longer be treated as an "internal affair" of Iraq or Egypt or the Palestinians. What the West needs to understand is that radical Islam has declared jihad not only against Jews, but also against Christians. In Iraq, Egypt and the Palestinian territories, Christians are being targeted almost on a daily basis by Muslim fundamentalists and secular dictators.

Dozens of Arab Christians in Iraq have been killed in recent months in what seems to be well-planned campaign to drive them out of the country. Many Christian families have already begun fleeing Iraq out of fear for their lives. Some have chosen to start new lives in Jordan, while many others are expressing hope that they could be resettled in North America or Europe. In Egypt, the plight of the Coptic Christian minority appears to be worsening. Just this week, the Egyptian security forces killed a Coptic Christian man and wounded scores of others who were protesting against the government's intention to demolish a Christian-owned structure. Hardly a day passes without reports of violence against members of the Coptic Christian community in various parts of Egypt. Most of the attacks are carried out by Muslim fundamentalists.

According to the Barnabas Fund, an advocacy and charitable organization based in the United Kingdom, "Fears for the safety of Egyptian Christians are growing after a series of false allegations, violent threats and mass demonstrations against Christians in Egypt." Muslim anger was ignited by unfounded accusations that Egyptian Christians were aligned with Israel and stockpiling weapons in preparation for war against Muslims. The Barnabas Fund noted that Egyptian authorities have been accused of complicity for political reasons in the escalating sectarian crisis. Palestinian Christians have also been feeling the heat, although they their conditions remain much better than those of their brothers and sisters in Iraq and Egypt.

Last week, the Western-funded Palestinian Authority in the West Bank arrested a Christian journalist who reported about differences between Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and senior Fatah operative Mohammed Dahlan. The journalist, George Qanawati, manager of Radio Bethlehem 2000, was freed five days later. In the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip, the tiny Christian community is also living in fear following a spate of attacks by radical Islamic groups. The failure of the international community to pay enough attention to the dangers facing the Christians encouraged radical Muslims and corrupt dictatorships to step up their assaults on Christian individuals and institutions. When Muslim fanatics cannot kill Christian soldiers or civilians in the mountains of Afghanistan or on the streets of New York, they choose an easy prey: their Arab Christian neighbors. The West, Islam and Sharia: Muslim Genocide of Christians Throughout Middle East

[BalaGire]

All I really "know" as a ressult off this discussion is that you have a very idealized and very naive view of religious scriptures and their interpetation in actual practice.

It's almost like talking to a five-year-old who's gonna stomp his feet and insist people can fly bbecaause he read it in a comic book.

Allah, oh our Lord, vanquish Your enemies, enemies of the religion [Islam] in all places.
Allah, strike the Jews and their sympathizers,
the Christians and their supporters,
the Communists and their adherents.
Allah, count them and kill them to the last one, and don't leave even one YouTube - Hamas: Kill Christians and Jews "to the last one"

[Info-phone]

Yeah like we are dying to have Sharia Law and the Koran shoved down our throats....along with free thinking which is not allowed...if they debated their own religion or were free to question and leave or join it(like most religions)...it would diminish quickly. Or if their own women ever got enough power without threats of losing their heads, they would put these chauvist types in their places. Supposedly biblically they claim they are decendants of Ishmael (they claim alot of things including all the prior Bibles and books were hi-jacked and wrong, but the Koran is correct-LOL), anyway the bible states that Ishmael was a 'wild ass of a man'....so maybe that proves they were decendants...they are exactly of that type as to what they do and preach, it couldn't get more wild ass than what we see going on. I wonder what the average I.Q. is in these countries???? The genius of the shoe bomber and some others that cannot even make a bomb detonate (which pleases us and Alah I think is very pleased too). In case you wondered, their definition of Alah and the Christian perceptions of 'father-God' are totally different if you look into what is dogma or endorsed...thus I contend they are not the same God...the word might mean God..but the defining of that God is totally different from the Christian and other cultures vision of God, too. You can judge for yourselves of course in this culture, you got freedom and free will.

Hey I don't hate the religion, but nor do I find it all that great, their foundation and their founder has a very questionable and illicit beginnings, but if someone wishes to freely choose such a pathway...you have that right...but learn the Golden Rule if you wish to get along in the world. One or two virtues I do see, but it is limited, is you do give alms but only to your own peoples and you have a prayerful life that is followed maybe to an extreme level. Anyway if it were and eye for an eye, you owe us some buildings and a Mosque or two..I suspect Alah is keeping count anyway. My infidel number (fyi) #678484 probably already on a hit list. LOL