[Mark_NyB]

First: I searched for Muslim attacks on U.S. Soil or Waters prior to 1948 and the recognition by the USA of Israel and found none. Am I in error ?

Second: Has our "special relationship" with Israel on a cost benefit basis measured as a strategic benefit actually given us any now or projected in the foreseeable future ?

Third: If we received or project benefits what are they ?

If Iran and Israel were equal in power could or would there be some actual attainable progress in ending with a peaceful conclusion through mutual strength a solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict ?

IMO We are being herded from one war to another with no end in sight !`

[Uciaucrx]

First: I searched for Muslim attacks on U.S. Soil or Waters prior to 1948 and the recognition by the USA of Israel and found none. Am I in error ?

The Barbary wars come to mind. They were attacking American merchant ships on the high seas and enslaving the crews.

[Attaniuri]

The Barbary wars come to mind. They were attacking American merchant ships on the high seas and enslaving the crews.

They were attacking all commercial shipping. This wasn't an attack on just just an America vessel. They were like privateers. No comparison !

[Dilangfh]

The Barbary wars come to mind. They were attacking American merchant ships on the high seas and enslaving the crews.

Why don't you just answer the questions ?

[PrareeLor]

So what are you saying? That we should dump Israel as an ally and join forces ithe 'islamic' nations? It would seem so.

[RSAccountssy]

So what are you saying? That we should dump Israel as an ally and join forces ithe 'islamic' nations? It would seem so.

I think the suggestion here may be that there is no point in wasting tax money to assist an evil government especially if it makes other people want to kill us. And before someone says it, no, it does not mean we should change everything we do (even if it hurts us) only because someone like Osama bin Laden intimidates us to change our behavior.

[Unlinozistimi]

skeptic1, hairballxavier, et al,

(DISSENTING OPINION)

I believe that hairballxavier is correct.

The US only came into existence in the 1770's; and almost from the start, there were issues with the Arab nations; both Islamic Revivalists and Radicals. US had shipping interdictions and attacks on commerce, prior to the Barbary Treaties, commenced almost immediately. In the Barbary Treaties (Avalon Project - The Barbary Treaties 1786-1836), the US disavowed a Christian Foundation and the peace between the Islamic World and the US lasted until the US Civil War.

First: I searched for Muslim attacks on U.S. Soil or Waters prior to 1948 and the recognition by the USA of Israel and found none. Am I in error ?

During the Civil War, the US was blockaded and there was a absent period. After the Civil War, the US Navy and commercial shipping was in a gradual rebuilding and expansion. The US Navy returned to the pre-war protection of US Shipping in the Freedom of the Seas Mission. During the period between the US Civil War and the beginning of WW-I, there were no major engagements. On the outset of WW-I, the Allies (Western World, including America) were engaged with Arab forces against Forces of the Ottoman Empire (both Islamic). At the conclusion of WW-I the Western Powers created mandates over most of the Middle East. Most of Palestine was still under British Mandate; with territories (what would later become Syria in 1946) under French Mandate.

Actually, the date association with Muslim attacks to the creation of Israel (IMO) is rather arbitrary. In fact, one could also make (this unusual implication - using the same association) with the creation, by the Western Alliance, of several Islamic States; to include:

• Saudi Arabia: 23 September 1932 (unification of the kingdom)
• Iraq: 3 October 1932 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Lebanon: 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
• Jordan: 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Syria: Created as a French mandate and attained independence in April 1946
• Kuwait: gained independence from the United Kingdom in 1961

Correlation is not necessarily an indication causation.

While your observation may be valid, your assertion is not sound.

Most Respectfully,
R

[SodeSceriobia]

So what are you saying? That we should dump Israel as an ally and join forces ithe 'islamic' nations? It would seem so.

No ! I am saying if Iran has the bomb Israel will negotiate peace.

We have been in turmoil since 1948. The inception of Israel has played a large part in developing and continuing that fact.

IMO they have no real strategic value as military allies at this time.

Sometimes it is necessary for momma to roll out the "castor oil".

The next war will be "nuclear". Stamp out the fuse now !

[pfcwlkxav]

skeptic1, hairballxavier, et al,

(DISSENTING OPINION)

I believe that hairballxavier is correct.

The US only came into existence in the 1770's; and almost from the start, there were issues with the Arab nations; both Islamic Revivalists and Radicals. US had shipping interdictions and attacks on commerce, prior to the Barbary Treaties, commenced almost immediately. In the Barbary Treaties (Avalon Project - The Barbary Treaties 1786-1836), the US disavowed a Christian Foundation and the peace between the Islamic World and the US lasted until the US Civil War.


During the Civil War, the US was blockaded and there was a absent period. After the Civil War, the US Navy and commercial shipping was in a gradual rebuilding and expansion. The US Navy returned to the pre-war protection of US Shipping in the Freedom of the Seas Mission. During the period between the US Civil War and the beginning of WW-I, there were no major engagements. On the outset of WW-I, the Allies (Western World, including America) were engaged with Arab forces against Forces of the Ottoman Empire (both Islamic). At the conclusion of WW-I the Western Powers created mandates over most of the Middle East. Most of Palestine was still under British Mandate; with territories (what would later become Syria in 1946) under French Mandate.

Actually, the date association with Muslim attacks to the creation of Israel (IMO) is rather arbitrary. In fact, one could also make (this unusual implication - using the same association) with the creation, by the Western Alliance, of several Islamic States; to include:

• Saudi Arabia: 23 September 1932 (unification of the kingdom)
• Iraq: 3 October 1932 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Lebanon: 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
• Jordan: 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Syria: Created as a French mandate and attained independence in April 1946
• Kuwait: gained independence from the United Kingdom in 1961

Correlation is not necessarily an indication causation.

While your observation may be valid, your assertion is not sound.

Most Respectfully,
R

There is often a fine line between "Subjectivity and Objectivity" in cause and effect relationships. But when one has a tooth ache chances are a tooth is causing it.

[nerohedfrs]

There is often a fine line between "Subjectivity and Objectivity" in cause and effect relationships. But when one has a tooth ache chances are a tooth is causing it.

Ah, so the "tooth" (aka Israel) is completely to blame Do the Arab nations have neither control over nor responsibility for their own actions?

[k1ePRlda]

Ah, so the "tooth" (aka Israel) is completely to blame Do the Arab nations have neither control over nor responsibility for their own actions?

Keep in mind that the bone of contention is NOT the existence of Israel but rather Israel's ethnic cleansing of 750,000 Palestinians. The Arabs who helped the Allies liberate their homes from their co-religionists, the Ottoman Turks (which, at least openly, the many tens of thousands of Jews living there at the time did not) declared repeatedly in the early XXth century that they had no objection to Jews in Palestine, even if they should come to dominate the area politically by force of numbers alone.

This idea that Islam hates the West is ahistoric to the point of idiocy. The British LIBERATED the arabs from the Ottomans in WWI. The vast cause of the animosity that exists today is that they then went back on their word to grant immeidate independence for several decades. If they had done what T. E. Lawrence advised from the beginning the Jews today would be a friendly partner in a ME that was strongly modernized and pro West in almost all respects.

[Lån-Penge]

Ah, so the "tooth" (aka Israel) is completely to blame Do the Arab nations have neither control over nor responsibility for their own actions?

The western powers` gave land long settled by Arabs for the formation of Israel.

The Arabs resent the uneven support of the U.S of Israel (the USA was first to recognize them) and further their control or attempted control of mid eastern countries and any other countries that contain natural resources that we ourselves cannot do without. "Muslims have become the common denominator" "The muslims re coming" !

The name of the game is IMO "retaliation" "becoming more acute as communication shrunk the world" and more had access to it.

[Gozmand]

Keep in mind that the bone of contention is NOT the existence of Israel but rather Israel's ethnic cleansing of 750,000 Palestinians.

Keep in mind they fled the fighting caused by their Arab brothers. Why on Earth would the Israelis allow a people in league with their enemies back in.

[lodsemelf]

John Drake, et al,

You could be right; I'm simply not sure.

(BLUF) In the beginning, it may have been just as simple as you suggest, all about the displacement. But, now, the political environment has changed. It is about so much more.

Keep in mind that the bone of contention is NOT the existence of Israel but rather Israel's ethnic cleansing of 750,000 Palestinians. The Arabs who helped the Allies liberate their homes from their co-religionists, the Ottoman Turks (which, at least openly, the many tens of thousands of Jews living there at the time did not) declared repeatedly in the early XXth century that they had no objection to Jews in Palestine, even if they should come to dominate the area politically by force of numbers alone.

This idea that Islam hates the West is ahistoric to the point of idiocy. The British LIBERATED the arabs from the Ottomans in WWI. The vast cause of the animosity that exists today is that they then went back on their word to grant immeidate independence for several decades. If they had done what T. E. Lawrence advised from the beginning the Jews today would be a friendly partner in a ME that was strongly modernized and pro West in almost all respects.

(OPINION)

The troubles in the region are driven by perceptions. Certainly, the dispersion of a people from their original homeland (diaspora) can be viewed by both side; Arab and Israeli alike. And the Arb-US and Arab-Israeli relationship has turned turned virulent in the last half century, declining at an accelerated rate over the last three decades.

The Arab-US relationship has become problematic relative to the perceived relationship the US might have with Israel. The regional Arab Community believes that the US can pressure Israel into accepting reasonable Arab demands on the Palestinian issue. The lack of progress on this level has inflamed and irritated the Arab-US relations which has now escaped reasonable control. The perception held (transmitted via the media and regional administration) is that progress is retarded because US Policy has anti-Muslim overtones, with concepts more favorable to the Israeli position.

(TO YOUR POINT)

There is a lack of "universally understood and unambiguous" consensus on the US Policy relative to a "unified agreement by the Arab" on the exact scope and nature of the Regional Problem. Thus, much of the Arab/Regional Population, estranged from a functioning government, sees "Islam" as a viable solution. It generally comes in two forms:

• Radical Extremism as practiced by the various Palestinian Terrorist Organizations
• And, the more democratic Revivalist or Reformist variety of Islam

In general, there is a another aspect to the disruption in Arab-US relations (and by extension Arab-Israeli relations); and that is the corruption of autocratic and legitimate Arab Governments in the Region. And Islam is perceived by much of the general regionally oppressed population as the only real and legitimate solution to the reformation of corrupt governments; including Israel. There are many regional influentials that believe the US should support peaceful transitions toward Islamic reforms as the overall policy strategy. In some measure, the US (in the last Administration) partially adopted this policy by making Iraq a Constitutional Islamic State (Article II). However, the Revivalist and Reformist are a minority in the region and due to the corruption of the US Installed and back government, what the general regional population perceives is the US (a corrupt government) installing another corrupt leadership. Again, in doing so, and with the relapse (again) of Israeli-Palistinian Peace Talks, the Arab sees US Policy favoring Israel and not the Arab.

Most Respectfully,
R

[gechaheritt]

No ! I am saying if Iran has the bomb Israel will negotiate peace.

Since when have Iran and Israel been at war?

And if Iran thinks it can push Israel around simply because it has a nuke, it is sadly mistaken. Israel has had them for decades, and has never felt the need to threaten others with their use (in fact they still deny that they even have them).

Why do some people insist on trying to tie things together that have nothing to do with each other?

[SkatrySkith]

No ! I am saying if Iran has the bomb Israel will negotiate peace.

We have been in turmoil since 1948. The inception of Israel has played a large part in developing and continuing that fact.

IMO they have no real strategic value as military allies at this time.

Sometimes it is necessary for momma to roll out the "castor oil".

The next war will be "nuclear". Stamp out the fuse now !

Islam is at war with anything that isn't Islamic. You could break ties with Israel but it won't bring peace. had Israel not been the reason another would have been created.

Where the country is located alone makes it a military strategic asset.

[Dwerfsd]

So no one can answer the op question?

[acneman]

The simple answer is that the US began being attacked by Islamic terrorists after the US provided weapons for people to attack and kill Islamic people.

[longrema]

The simple answer is that the US began being attacked by Islamic terrorists after the US provided weapons for people to attack and kill Islamic people.

great goob, but that doesn't answer the question. Let me see if I can find it since no one else seems to want to find out (or know)

[Indinehon]

I can't vouch for the accuracy of this one but many of the events I personally recall since I'm old as dirt.

List of Islamic Terror Attacks in America



If you have the time, read the whole thing and sort out the perps. Note how may times you see "leftists" I think they're right up there with the KKK.

Terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Terrorism Related to Islamic Extremism
1977 Hanafi Siege
1989 firebombing of the Riverdale Press
1990 Assassination of Meir Kahane by Egyptian
1990 Assassination of Rashad Khalifa for questioning Koranic verses
1993 Shootings at CIA Headquarters
1993 World Trade Center bombing
1993 New York City landmark bomb plot
1994 Brooklyn Bridge shooting
1997 Empire State Building shootings
1997 Murder of Prison Guard by Haneef Bilal [4]
2000 H. Rap Brown(Jamil Abdullah Al-Amin) shoots two police officers
2000 New York terror attack
2000 millennium attack plots
2001 September 11 attack
2002 Los Angeles Airport shooting
2002José Padilla (Abdullah al-Muhajir) Plot
2002 Buffalo Six
2002 John Allen Muhammad (Washington Sniper) killings
2003 Columbus Shopping Mall Bombing Plot
2004 financial buildings plot
2005 Los Angeles bomb plot
2006 Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar SUV attack
2006 Sears Tower plot
2006 Seattle Jewish Federation shooting
2006 Toledo terror plot
2006 transatlantic aircraft plot
2007 Fort Dix attack plot
2007 John F. Kennedy International Airport attack plot
2009 Arkansas recruiting office shooting
2009 Plot to bomb New York Synagogue and shoot down military planes
2009 Dallas Car Bomb Plot by Hosam Maher Husein Smadi [5]
2009 New York Subway and United Kingdom Plot
2009 Fort Hood shooting
2009 Colleen LaRose arrested (not made public until March 2010)
2009 Failed Christmas bombing of Northwest Flight 253
2010 Attempted suicide car crash on Whitestone Bridge
2010 2010 Times Square car bomb attempt
2010 King Salmon, Alaska local meteorologist and wife assassination plots now was that SF hard?