[CruzIzabella]

Morale amongst Canada's troops in Afghanistan has always been good. They are not ending their combat mission because their heart is no longer in it.
The decision was made at the political level a couple of years ago.
Canada is staying in Afghanistan in a training role.

That supports my argument. They are no longer putting forth as much effort as any other ally.

[uranbigis]

That supports my argument. They are no longer putting forth as much effort as any other ally.

Logistically they never could. They simply don't have the ability to maintain the sort of 'effort' the US and certain other allies can.

I think you are being unrealistic in terms of what you expect certain countries to be able to do.

[RilmAlime67]

That supports my argument. They are no longer putting forth as much effort as any other ally.

For several years they put forth more effort than any other ally except Britain and the US.
Now they are going to do training, which is very important.
Notice no European ally replaced them in Khandahar. The US had to do that themselves.
BTW, I didn't agree with the decision to end the combat mission in Khandahar, but I understand it.

[allvideO]

Logistically they never could. They simply don't have the ability to maintain the sort of 'effort' the US and certain other allies can.

I think you are being unrealistic in terms of what you expect certain countries to be able to do.

The could put effort forth proportional to their ability to do so, which is irrelavant to population. That they can suddenly decide to lesson their effort indicates they are not putting their maximum ability forward.

[adultcomicssitedessaa]

For several years they put forth more effort than any other ally except Britain and the US.
Now they are going to do training, which is very important.
Notice no European ally replaced them in Khandahar. The US had to do that themselves.
BTW, I didn't agree with the decision to end the combat mission in Khandahar, but I understand it.

The past is irrelavant. As I said before there is not a cap on effort. The mission doesnt end when you fulfill your quota of effort. I also understand the reasons behind their ending the combat mission. Politics.

[delnisfernan]

The past is irrelavant. As I said before there is not a cap on effort. The mission doesnt end when you fulfill your quota of effort. I also understand the reasons behind their ending the combat mission. Politics.

I agree, but some people, including some of the polititians, see a NATO mission as more of a team effort, and they believed it was time for some other member of the team to step up in Kandahar.
Like I say, I don't agree with that position. We should have stayed the course.
Harper didn't want to go back on a deal he had agreed to in 2008 when he had a minority government. That deal involved a three year extention of the mission but with a firm pull-out date. It was the best he could get at the time.

[tropicana]

Every single nation that has been militarily involved with Afghanistan has regretted their involvement greatly. I believe the best way to win any war against Afghanistan is NOT to attempt to change their nation into OUR image or define to them what freedom is; but extract ourselves as quickly as possible and allow them to continue to blow each other away.

We are not going to change the hearts of those whose logic is to blow up their entire body including their hearts to kill others.

Reason with those that can and leave the others to their only deadly devices.

[Metalhead]

Every single nation that has been militarily involved with Afghanistan has regretted their involvement greatly. I believe the best way to win any war against Afghanistan is NOT to attempt to change their nation into OUR image or define to them what freedom is; but extract ourselves as quickly as possible and allow them to continue to blow each other away.

We are not going to change the hearts of those whose logic is to blow up their entire body including their hearts to kill others.

Reason with those that can and leave the others to their only deadly devices.

We are not at war with Afghanistan. We are at war with those who would overthrow the govt of Afghanistan and install a terrorist supporting regime like they had before. That is not in our interest nor the interest of the vast majority of the Afghan people.

[nikolapegayyyaasss]

Despite the fact that Canada suffers under socialist government run health care, pushes the homosexual agenda through the destruction of traditional marriage, abandoned its responsibilities in Iraq, and persues a plethera of other anti-US stances, I believe it is unfair to label them "Dirty Communist bastards".

Canada is a sovereign nation, so she doesn't have any responsibility in Iraq. Canada was not threatened by Iraq in any way. Tens of thousands of Iraqis live in Canada peacefully. Iraq is America's Frankenstein, not Canada's. Canada should be proud of the fact that it's leaders didn't buy into any of the bad information that the Bush administration kept putting out.

On Veterans Day, PM Harper went over to Afghanistan, declared victory, and then got us the hell out of there finally.

Canadian troops helped in many ways, and were not even supposed to be on the frontlines but when Iraq started and Bush took over 80% of his Afghan forces out, Canada stepped up and took a lead role despite popular opinion in Canada against that move.

In the end, the venture was a miserable failure. Some stability has been created in many provinces, but it's still lacking. What we can point to are schools we helped build that got blown up. And hospitals or roads that we helped to build that got blown up. Or bridges, that got blown up.

There was no planning on this war, which is why nation-building was happening even before there was any kind of basic security in place first. So stupid. I understand Obama's plan to do this whole thing slowly and carefully, but in my gut I don't like it. It's time to leave already.

[Dwencejed]

Canada is a sovereign nation, so she doesn't have any responsibility in Iraq. Canada was not threatened by Iraq in any way. Tens of thousands of Iraqis live in Canada peacefully. Iraq is America's Frankenstein, not Canada's. Canada should be proud of the fact that it's leaders didn't buy into any of the bad information that the Bush administration kept putting out.

On Veterans Day, PM Harper went over to Afghanistan, declared victory, and then got us the hell out of there finally.

Canadian troops helped in many ways, and were not even supposed to be on the frontlines but when Iraq started and Bush took over 80% of his Afghan forces out, Canada stepped up and took a lead role despite popular opinion in Canada against that move.

In the end, the venture was a miserable failure. Some stability has been created in many provinces, but it's still lacking. What we can point to are schools we helped build that got blown up. And hospitals or roads that we helped to build that got blown up. Or bridges, that got blown up.

There was no planning on this war, which is why nation-building was happening even before there was any kind of basic security in place first. So stupid. I understand Obama's plan to do this whole thing slowly and carefully, but in my gut I don't like it. It's time to leave already.

Thats not how it happened. Harper didn't declare victory and then get us out of there. The pull-out was decided back in 2008 as part of a deal Harper had to make with the Liberals to get their support for an extention of the mission.

[uMG6uOSo]

Thats not how it happened. Harper didn't declare victory and then get us out of there. The pull-out was decided back in 2008 as part of a deal Harper had to make with the Liberals to get their support for an extention of the mission.

Yes, because the Liberals were in favor of staying in Afghanistan, only they wanted a timeline drafted up of the goals we wanted to meet, and to have a firm deadline of December, 2011 to get everyone out.

They could have voted against any extension along with the other two parties at the time and ended it, but they wanted to do it smart.

In any case, Stephen Harper, in his speech to the troops on May 30 of this year basically made it a "Mission Accomplished" speech. He said, "“Islamist terror (in Afghanistan) no longer represents a geo-strategic threat to the world — it is no longer a source of global terrorism.”

Photos: Harper lauds troops on surprise Afghanistan visit | Posted | National Post

He has never played it like he's respecting a deadline. He went over there and lauded the troops, reminded everyone what it was we were there for, how we accomplished it, and that the job was now done.

He declared victory so we could come home, which is the PR way of doing it. If Harper really wanted to stay there, he would have made that possible, so I think he did the right thing by just admitting it's time to finally get the heck out. They drove Al Qaeda away (they're in Pakistan now) and Afghanistan needs to save herself now.

[hacyOrgachbic]

Yes, because the Liberals were in favor of staying in Afghanistan, only they wanted a timeline drafted up of the goals we wanted to meet, and to have a firm deadline of December, 2011 to get everyone out.

They could have voted against any extension along with the other two parties at the time and ended it, but they wanted to do it smart.

In any case, Stephen Harper, in his speech to the troops on May 30 of this year basically made it a "Mission Accomplished" speech. He said, "“Islamist terror (in Afghanistan) no longer represents a geo-strategic threat to the world — it is no longer a source of global terrorism.”

Photos: Harper lauds troops on surprise Afghanistan visit | Posted | National Post

He has never played it like he's respecting a deadline. He went over there and lauded the troops, reminded everyone what it was we were there for, how we accomplished it, and that the job was now done.

He declared victory so we could come home, which is the PR way of doing it. If Harper really wanted to stay there, he would have made that possible, so I think he did the right thing by just admitting it's time to finally get the heck out. They drove Al Qaeda away (they're in Pakistan now) and Afghanistan needs to save herself now.

Afghanistan is not yet ready to "save herself",but they are getting there.
Thats why I believe we should have stayed the course, but the training mission will be an important contribution as well.

[MaickiP]

Despite the fact that Canada suffers under socialist government run health care, pushes the homosexual agenda through the destruction of traditional marriage, abandoned its responsibilities in Iraq, and persues a plethera of other anti-US stances, I believe it is unfair to label them "Dirty Communist bastards".

Could you please supply the information that Canada had ANY responsibilities to go on a wild goose chase for weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist. What, exactly, were those "responsibilities"?

And where do you get that Canada "Suffers" from government run health care? Please explain that "suffering." Especially since the Canadian economy is outpacing that of the US.

As to your homophobic comments about same sex marriage, you are welcome to them.

Oh, and you're welcome for the ten years we spent in Afghanistan and the lives we lost. I will make sure than Canadians know of your views the next time Obama wants to start another war.

[jhfkgkfdvjk]

He declared victory so we could come home, which is the PR way of doing it. If Harper really wanted to stay there, he would have made that possible, so I think he did the right thing by just admitting it's time to finally get the heck out. They drove Al Qaeda away (they're in Pakistan now) and Afghanistan needs to save herself now.

As much as I don't want to like him, he does things with class. And I don't believe he decided to pull out to appear the Liberals. I think he knew it was turning into an ugly Viet Nam style war and did the right thing.

[leoto5Fm]

That supports my argument. They are no longer putting forth as much effort as any other ally.

I think you should show more gratitude towards the Canadians. In terms of population, Canada isn't a very large country - it has just 34 million people living in a country which is almost exactly the same size as the whole of the continent of Europe - but when you look at the number of fatalities it suffered in Afghanistan then you'll see that Canada put in a lot of effort.

Only the United States and Britain, which both have much larger populations, suffered more fatalities than Canada and I think it's worth pointing out that that small, sparsely-populated country suffered more fatalities in Afghanistan than France and Germany COMBINED. That cannot be something the French and Germans are proud about.

So I think you should show more gratitude to the Canadians and thank them for putting in a decent effort. And then you need to start directing your anger at the French and Germans and ask, now that the Canadians have left, why they can't contribute more troops to this war and actually start taking the fight to the Taliban a bit more rather than staying safe and sound in their bases and being told they can't come out at night "because it is too dangerous." Such ways of fighting a war are NOT the ways of supposed first rate, first class military powers.

So we should thank Canada for its tremendous effort in Afghanistan and now need to start persuading the French and Germans to start filling the hole left by the exit of the Canadians. I wouldn't hold my breath, though.

Number of people in each nation for each one of their troops killed in Afghanistan (the number in brackets is the total number of deaths so far)

UK: 164,456 (377)
US: 201,176 (1,531)
Canada: 220,779 (154)
France: 928,571 (70)
Germany: 1,464,286 (56)

[bawayTeen]

I think you should show more gratitude towards the Canadians. In terms of population, Canada isn't a very large country - it has just 34 million people living in a country which is almost exactly the same size as the whole of the continent of Europe - but when you look at the number of fatalities it suffered in Afghanistan then you'll see that Canada put in a lot of effort.

Only the United States and Britain, which both have much larger populations, suffered more fatalities than Canada and I think it's worth pointing out that that small, sparsely-populated country suffered more fatalities in Afghanistan than France and Germany COMBINED. That cannot be something the French and Germans are proud about.

So I think you should show more gratitude to the Canadians and thank them for putting in a decent effort. And then you need to start directing your anger at the French and Germans and ask, now that the Canadians have left, why they can't contribute more troops to this war and actually start taking the fight to the Taliban a bit more rather than staying safe and sound in their bases and being told they can't come out at night "because it is too dangerous." Such ways of fighting a war are NOT the ways of supposed first rate, first class military powers.

So we should thank Canada for its tremendous effort in Afghanistan and now need to start persuading the French and Germans to start filling the hole left by the exit of the Canadians. I wouldn't hold my breath, though.

Number of people in each nation for each one of their troops killed in Afghanistan

UK: 164,456
US: 201,176
Canada: 220,779
France: 928,571
Germany: 1,464,286

Start a thread on the french and germans and Ill chime in there as well.

[mikaelluioy]

The Canadian armed forces have done a fantastic job and we should all be grateful for the role they have played.
Castigating them for withdrawing now is unfair and saying they should be thrown out of NATO is insane. All NATO can ask for is that member states put in as much effort as each country feels they are able to and Canada has more than met that obligation.

Am I right in thinking France only just recently rejoined NATO?

[medshop]

That supports my argument. They are no longer putting forth as much effort as any other ally.

You do realize that the majority of NATO members in Afghanistan have never had a combat role don't you?

You do realize that Canada volunteered a combat role for four years and stayed eight?

They did more than they were asked.

[Forex Trading Software]

The could put effort forth proportional to their ability to do so, which is irrelavant to population. That they can suddenly decide to lesson their effort indicates they are not putting their maximum ability forward.

Canada's role has been far greater than the combat mission my ignorant friend. Have you any idea how many schools Canada has built? Hospitals? Housing?

Now ask yourself who is doing the heavy lifting in Obama's "forgotten" war, Libya.

[DoctorWeryDolt]

You do realize that the majority of NATO members in Afghanistan have never had a combat role don't you?

You do realize that Canada volunteered a combat role for four years and stayed eight?

They did more than they were asked.

I dont do moral relativism.