[Stovegeothnon]

http://theweek.com/article/index/216...ears-probation

OK, so even though the Texas law does not prohibit spanking your kid, this woman is given 5 years of probation for spanking her kid (3 different sources just call him/her "the kid")...
WHAT GIVES???

[Cricequorie]

There is a difference between a swat on the butt and a full out beating of a child. It does not hurt a kid to give them a tap on the rear at all. If you have to tell a child no more than three times, than that means that's not working.

Gonzales got in trouble because her spanking left red marks, and her daughter's paternal grandmother noticed.

Reading this, I don't know how many times she spanked her or for what but when I was little my dad IF he got to the point of spanking us, which he rarely had to do because if he yelled, we were scared enough of that, it was a pat on the butt. It never hurt and we only cried because we were in trouble. But leaving welts or red marks...that gets to be a little much. But some kids just don't fucking listen. I have friends where they have spanked their kid hard and the kid just laughs at them. I don't know - I think the government only steps in when it reaches child abuse and that is not a pat on the butt which is what a spanking should be.

[Imagimifouxum]

There is a difference between a swat on the butt and a full out beating of a child. It does not hurt a kid to give them a tap on the rear at all. If you have to tell a child no more than three times, than that means that's not working.

Gonzales got in trouble because her spanking left red marks, and her daughter's paternal grandmother noticed.

Reading this, I don't know how many times she spanked her or for what but when I was little my dad IF he got to the point of spanking us, which he rarely had to do because if he yelled, we were scared enough of that, it was a pat on the butt. It never hurt and we only cried because we were in trouble. But leaving welts or red marks...that gets to be a little much. But some kids just don't fucking listen. I have friends where they have spanked their kid hard and the kid just laughs at them. I don't know - I think the government only steps in when it reaches child abuse and that is not a pat on the butt which is what a spanking should be.

I strongly disagree with your definition of a spanking. A pat on the butt would not even be considered a spank, let alone a spanking. Hell, that isn't even considered spanking in kinky sex, so I'm not sure where you get that from.

If a kid laughs after a spanking, the spanking was not administered correctly.

[Siliespiriulk]

Plus iirc on the news report (HLN news net) when the kid went to the hospital, there were no marks, bruises etc.

[elapicearpisp]

I strongly disagree with your definition of a spanking. A pat on the butt would not even be considered a spank, let alone a spanking. Hell, that isn't even considered spanking in kinky sex, so I'm not sure where you get that from.

If a kid laughs after a spanking, the spanking was not administered correctly.

What would you call a "spanking" then on a kid? I'm pretty sure - at least I hope - you don't spank a child the same way you might if you have "kinky sex." That's just weird.

When my dad spanked us, it was not so hard it left a mark but it was firm enough to get the point across. From what I remember, it never really did hurt but I would cry just because he was mad. All he ever did to any of us was a swat.

And trust me, I saw my friend spank her kid and heard the smack and the kid did not cry. I've spanked my nieces before to where my hand hurt and they just laughed. But yet you even pretend to lock them in the bedroom (just hold on to the door handle so they can't get out) and that's when they scream bloody murder.

Again I don't know what you call spanking but I have this feeling your definition borders child abuse. But to get probation for spanking your kid...no. If the kid had no marks, bruises, etc, then I don't see what the problem was. And for the state to tell someone to take parenting classes for that?!

If someone is taking a switch to their kid, full out punching them, slapping them hard, just full out whaling on them, that's wrong. A spanking? I don't see any problem with that. All I know is my dad rarely had to do that. He is one of the kindest men I know but piss him off...we tried to avoid that as much as we could because just him yelling was scary. I'm damn near 30 and I would still be scared of my dad if he got mad at me.

[replicamuse]

As a father, I have to reflect upon the discipline methods that my parents used.

My wife and I have two different outlooks on discipline. She would prefer to have our kids stand in the corner for 10 minutes in a time-out session. I have seen this demonstrated when she babysits our 5 and 6 year old newphew... I have also seen how this discipline technique fails miserably. The same goes with threatening to remove an object of amusement such as a toy, video game, dessert, etc.,.

When I was about three years old, our family took a trip to the store. I wanted something, and when I didn't get it, I threw a fit. My father proceeded to spank me on the spot in the middle of the store. From that point on, when I wanted something and didn't get it... guess what? I didn't throw a tantrum or brood about it.. it was like, "ok", and life went on.

As I grew older, forms of discipline upgraded with age. I was spanked with a belt and even with a switch. Did I have marks and bruises at times as a result? Yep.. but I didn't do the same stupid stuff again.

People are too quick to pull the "child abuse" card when it comes to forms of discipline. However, for a child to really be the subject or to suffer from abuse, there are many indicators which have to be taken into consideration before abuse can be substantiated.

Long story short, my father had forms of discipline which people today would consider to be harsh, and probably call Child Protective Services. I turned out just fine, and looking back see the necessity in it based on the circumstances.

HOWEVER, I also believe the temperment and the reasoning behind the discipline must also be taken into consideration. Parents tend to go overboard when they discipline out of anger and with no warning given beforehand of the impending consequences if their child continues to misbehave.

[shihoodiacarf]

Same here. Of all the kids i knew growing up, the ones who are the worst offenders for repeating crimes etc were the ones USUALLY who didn't get spanked or other forms of proper discipline.. And to me 'time outs' are not discipline.
Of all those who DID get spanked, only 2 went on to become criminals. HELL 3 are serving in the police force, 1 is a lawyer and 2 went for their roles in the DA's office (well the english equivelant).

[frkksptn]

Candycane, child abuse can be yelling at a child as well as spanking one, depending on your point of view.

There are are two problems I see off hand:

1. Government should never get involved in a parent's discipline of a child unless it endangers the child, or is disorderly conduct in public. I mean, how do you define abuse? Beating a kid with a baseball bat until they bruise, bleed, or break bones is not discipline, it is abuse, cruel, and never works. However, making the child go get the switch which is to be used to swat them on the back of the legs is discipline (in my opinion), as it makes a child think about what they did wrong as they go, not only meet their punishment, but they must procure the means of said punishment as well. Plus how many times have we been out in public and hear a Parent screaming at their child, as the child does what they please....., just saying.

2. If punishment of a child is not working, the child has no respect for authority of the parent, or adult who is charged with their care. Find out the problem for that lack of respect and fix it, while the child is still impressionable. Otherwise, they will never amount to anything as an adult, and will probably wind up abusing children themselves.

I don't think using a switch or a belt is discipline. I feel like if you have to get to that point that you are using some type of instrument to hit them, that is bordering to abuse.

With my nieces, yes they weren't respecting their mother at first when she left their dad. She was being emotionally and physically abused by him and she finally got the smart sense to leave his dumb ass. At first they lived with my parents so it was probably a little confusing for those kids. I know they had seen some of the things that happened because my nephew was about 2 or 3 at the time I heard him tell his mom, out of the blue, he put his hands on her face and told her that he would never let anyone hurt her. I couldn't believe that and it was totally out of nowhere. My dad had a hell of time with them too and I can't believe they weren't scared of him when he got mad. I saw him go off on one of my nieces and I had a damn flashback. All he did was yell at her about how she should treat her mother better. Then five minutes later, she's acting up again. It was hard for her to discipline because when they went to their dads, he would tell them things and let them do what they wanted. Now it's better because she got her own place and is dating an actually decent guy who also has his own child but for awhile I know it was hard for her to get them to listen and respect her because she had her ex countering her efforts.

I really don't think that it should need to escalate to spanking or switches or anything like that. Like I said, my dad rarely had to spank us and if he did, it wasn't extremely forceful. All he had to do was put us in our place with yelling at us. But we respected him and still do. He did the timeouts sometimes on my brothers. He would ground us and at one point, the grounding was taking everything out of our room - books, toys, etc - and all we could do was sit in our room for however long. Trust me, that got me to not do whatever I was in trouble for again. If we threw a fit in the store, that only happened once because he took us aside and gave us a lecture. But the way he did it we knew it was business and not to mess with him. We didn't talk back to him.

Some parents today might think yelling is abuse but it depends on what is being said. If a parent is belittling a child, that's emotional abuse. I know full well what emotional abuse from a parent is like and the difference between that and the parent just being stern with them, asking them why they did something.

As I said the only time the government should get involved is when actual abuse has happened. The problem is not that a lot of parents don't discipline their child, it's almost as if they can't. I don't think I heard of Child Protective Services or Social Services until I was like 11 or something. A lot of parents get their hands tied behind their back because someone outside of that - whether a stranger or a grandparent - feels they know more about parenting a child than the parent does. I hate it when I see strangers walk up to someone in the store and tell them how to parent a child. If that would ever happen to me - they'd be getting my opinion on them back.

[Lafclaria]

There is a lot more to this story. I'll bet there were incidents leading up to this.

Not to mention she wasn't caught in the act by a police raid - her mother-in-law reported her. This is a family feud. And since this appears to be a rural family in Texas, the spanking probably happened when the child refused to eat his breakfast of boiled rat after morning prayers. And there's probably a polygamous cult involved somehow.

[smokeberly]

There is a lot more to this story. I'll bet there were incidents leading up to this.

Not to mention she wasn't caught in the act by a police raid - her mother-in-law reported her. This is a family feud. And since this appears to be a rural family in Texas, the spanking probably happened when the child refused to eat his breakfast of boiled rat after morning prayers. And there's probably a polygamous cult involved somehow.

Now aren't you the one who gets mad when people stereotype? Like calling all people in jail/prison scum? I don't know anyone in Texas who eats boiled rat. Hopefully being facetious in your statement but just wondered after seeing you say all conservatives label people in jail "scum" and you don't feel they are.

[diemeareendup]

to quote my man Kat Williams " YOUR BABY IS SUPPOSE TO LIKE SKITTLES"

[JacksHH]

Guys - I know that a lot of you young studs are out there producing rug rats. But the best solution to spanking and also taking away the wife's major weapon in the divorce that IS coming your way, is a vasectomy. You do not have to watch your wife whaling away on the kids; you do not have to knock her on her arse for doing it (like Iron Mike Tyson said about his hitting his wife Robin Givens - ''Best punch I ever threw.''); you do not go to jail and ruin your career - civilian or military - for knocking her on her arse. Last, but certainly not least, if you have a vasetomy, it makes divorce so much simpler. The wife never quits working to have a kid and that make alimony small or non-existant.

The secret to a successful vasectomy defense, is not to tell them that you have had a vasectomy.

[vodaPlaps]

She needs to send her kid to go work in some sweat-shop shoe factory....it should be easy to get connections and ship his ass to Guatamala overnight!

[Grzqbmhy]

Plus how many times have we been out in public and hear a Parent screaming at their child, as the child does what they please....., just saying.

From what i have witnessed.. not to many. Heck many don't even say anything to the kid, just 'scoff'.. And then get in the face of anyone else who says shit.

2. If punishment of a child is not working, the child has no respect for authority of the parent, or adult who is charged with their care. Find out the problem for that lack of respect and fix it, while the child is still impressionable. Otherwise, they will never amount to anything as an adult, and will probably wind up abusing children themselves.

IMO a lot of that is due to the 'ME MINE AND I" aspect of society these days, as well as the ease kids see they can get their parents in trouble.

I don't think using a switch or a belt is discipline. I feel like if you have to get to that point that you are using some type of instrument to hit them, that is bordering to abuse.

Whats the difference between using a belt or your hand may i ask?

[ServiceColas]

whats the difference between a hand and your belt? You need a quick pme from my mom bro...


god I remeber when she would give me that stare and tell me to take off my own belt and then my twin sister would come up behind me and put me in the full nelson so i wouldn't run.... good memories

[ftqwhbvxlcfop]

I don't think they told the whole story. I haven't worked with CPS in years but the law then stated you could use and open hand as long as the spanking does not result in "bone bruising". This Grandmother took this child to the ER. If it had just been red mark they would have sent her home but there must have been something concerning enough to alert the hospital staff to contact CPS, and for it to go this far.

[JessePex]

It is all about the way you start out with your kids. Stern from the beginning where the kid knows "no" means "no" and asking again will have a negative impact, and whining means worse consequences, they will always act right. My son has zero issues listening to me, and I haven't spanked him in about a year now, but the fear is in his mind when I act like I am going to or when his mother says "I am going to tell you daddy what you did." My wife still spanks him from time to time, and he still has issues listening to her.

[carinsurancess]

IIRC Norfolk had a case back in the mid 90s where a mother was brought up on charges by the CPS for "emotional abuse" by telling her daughter "wait till i tell your father"....

[Jambjanatan]

Candycane, child abuse can be yelling at a child as well as spanking one, depending on your point of view.

There are are two problems I see off hand:

1. Government should never get involved in a parent's discipline of a child unless it endangers the child, or is disorderly conduct in public. I mean, how do you define abuse? Beating a kid with a baseball bat until they bruise, bleed, or break bones is not discipline, it is abuse, cruel, and never works. However, making the child go get the switch which is to be used to swat them on the back of the legs is discipline (in my opinion), as it makes a child think about what they did wrong as they go, not only meet their punishment, but they must procure the means of said punishment as well. Plus how many times have we been out in public and hear a Parent screaming at their child, as the child does what they please....., just saying.

2. If punishment of a child is not working, the child has no respect for authority of the parent, or adult who is charged with their care. Find out the problem for that lack of respect and fix it, while the child is still impressionable. Otherwise, they will never amount to anything as an adult, and will probably wind up abusing children themselves.

I totally agree with the switch. My great granny and maternal grandma exercised that practice and when they said jump i asked how high... my dads method was different but effective. It was never a mystery when he got mad, one look and you could see every shade of red on his face. He use to use his knuckle right in the swirl of hair on the back of my head. Never really hurt more than my pride, it was usually just the surprise of how quick it happened. A real attention better that was. Of course, typical son phrase, "I always had it comin". Of course there are those who would call that abuse, but really, discipline is all about what the kid listens to. Fail to find the right method, fail your kid. Honestly that is up to the kid, not dear ol'uncle Sam.

[SappyAppy]

I was spanked as a child. My father used a belt. I wont lie, at times it was needed and I think I turned out fine. My wife was highly agianst spanking. Still we dont do it often as we try yelling, naughty cornor, taking toys away first. Those rarely work on their own but if nothing else gets through spanking is a sure fire way to get them under control. Belt is overkill though, while I dont hold anything agianst my father for using it, I will not. I also do not think it is my place for correcting someone else from spanking their kid as long as it doesnt draw the line of abuse. For me that would be simply using too much force for the situation at hand. If one spanking doesnt do the trick 5 or 10 wont do it either.