[SpyRemo]

DailyPaul website says 47 arrested, suggests more states in play. DailyPaul thread, multiple videos and reports, here:

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/130170

AP on Yahoo News:
ADRIAN, Mich. – The FBI says agents have conducted weekend raids in Michigan, Indiana and Ohio, and at least three people have been arrested.

Federal warrants are sealed, but FBI spokeswoman Sandra Berchtold said Sunday there has been "law enforcement activity" in southwest Michigan. She wouldn't say whether they were tied to the raids in the other states.

FBI spokesman Scott Wilson in Cleveland says agents arrested two people Saturday in Ohio. A third arrest was made in Illinois on Sunday, a day after raids in Indiana.

Michael Lackomar, spokesman for the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia, says a member of his group was called by members of a religious militia Saturday who claimed their property was being raided. Lackomar says the SMVM member declined to help and is cooperating with the FBI.

[smokeberly]

More than likely they were aressted on federal firearmas charges and/or Tax evasion though why the ATF wouldn't be involved then....don't know.

[Prealiitellg]

Good. Militiamen want to defend the people, they can join the National Guard, police, or Border Patrol (for those so frightened of illegal immigrants).

Building mobs and posses is just an all around bad idea. Many are nothing better than gangs enforcing their own versions of the law.

[JRixlcvF]

Lord, but I have a problem dealing with this subject.

First of all, not a single reporter knows WHY the raids were conducted or WHY anyone was arrested. Just another example of the "open government" we were promised by OB.

Second, there is no other accusation against these groups other than naming them "militias" which makes them somehow evil and a threat to this nation. One of the things our Constitution says is a RIGHT is the right to gather peacefully for whatever reason we seek. Is that yet another attack on the founding document and basis of our way of life? It is also our RIGHT to bear arms, something a lot of so-called "militias" do. Were these picked out just because they had guns? Again, when does it stop? When they come into your bedroom to take away the firearm you have to protect yourself?

To me, the media has sensationalized something without knowing exactly what's going on. I think we all should wait until the facts are in.

[Zvssxstw]

The other weirdness is they were arrested on "sealed warrants." Don't know how that works. Next they'll be after the open-carry folks. The Second Amendment is the real target.

[nithhysfusy]

People, do your research. I wholely agree with the FBI and ATF on this one.

ADRIAN, Mich. - Nine suspects tied to a Christian militia in the Midwest were charged Monday with conspiring to kill police officers, then attack a funeral in the hopes of killing more law enforcement people, federal prosecutors said.

Members of the group called Hutaree are charged in the case, including its leader, David Brian Stone. The suspects included six people from Michigan, two from Ohio and one from Indiana, officials said.

Once other officers gathered for the slain officer's funeral, the group planned to detonate homemade bombs with projectiles, killing more, the newly unsealed court papers revealed.

The charges follow FBI raids over the weekend on locations in Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana.

The raids were prompted by Hutaree plans to stage "a covert reconnaissance operation for April which had the potential of placing an unsuspecting member of the public at risk," said Barbara McQuade, the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan.

According to investigators, the Hutaree view local, state, and federal law enforcement personnel as a "brotherhood" and an enemy, and planned to attack them as part of an armed struggle against the U.S. government. They were a bunch of homegrown terrorist militants seeking to kill police during a funeral. They can call themselves Christians all they want, they ain't.

[cjOTw7ov]

I thought you were an Atheist? Ever hear of the Crusades, and Christians killing in the name of Christ?

I agree with most of your post. However I think whenever the Crusades are mentioned, people need to keep in mind that the Muslims were the first invaders. The first crusade was an attempt to retake the Holy Land from the Muslims, who in turn had taken it from the Jews and gave them and Christians alike the boot out.

Also keep in mind that Christian literally means: follower of Christ.
Christ led no violent crusades, nor did he make pipebombs. These people are not Christian. They are misguided.

[sitescools]

I agree with most of your post. However I think whenever the Crusades are mentioned, people need to keep in mind that the Muslims were the first invaders. The first crusade was an attempt to retake the Holy Land from the Muslims, who in turn had taken it from the Jews and gave them and Christians alike the boot out.

Also keep in mind that Christian literally means: follower of Christ.
Christ led no violent crusades, nor did he make pipebombs. These people are not Christian. They are misguided.

I really think you need to crack open a few old world history books before you spout off anything about the Crusades. You'll be surprised to know that the Muslims and Jews fought side-by-side in Jerusalem to fend off the Franks in 1099.

Here's a brief brush ......

The Crusades were a series of religiously sanctioned military campaigns waged by much of Latin Christian Europe, particularly the Franks of France and the Holy Roman Empire. The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291. Other campaigns in Spain and Eastern Europe continued into the 15th century. The Crusades were fought mainly against Muslims, although campaigns were also waged against pagan Slavs, pagan Balts, Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars, Hussites, Waldensians, Old Prussians, and political enemies of the popes. Crusaders took vows and were granted penance for past sins, often called an indulgence.

The Crusades originally had the goal of recapturing Jerusalem and the Holy Land from Muslim rule and were launched in response to a call from the Christian Byzantine Empire for help against the expansion of the Muslim Seljuk Turks into Anatolia. The term is also used to describe contemporaneous and subsequent campaigns conducted through to the 16th century in territories outside the Levant usually against pagans, heretics, and peoples under the ban of excommunication for a mixture of religious, economic, and political reasons.Rivalries among both Christian and Muslim powers led also to alliances between religious factions against their opponents, such as the Christian alliance with the Sultanate of Rum during the Fifth Crusade.

The Crusades had far-reaching political, economic, and social impacts, some of which have lasted into contemporary times. Because of internal conflicts among Christian kingdoms and political powers, some of the crusade expeditions were diverted from their original aim, such as the Fourth Crusade, which resulted in the sack of Christian Constantinople and the partition of the Byzantine Empire between Venice and the Crusaders. The Sixth Crusade was the first crusade to set sail without the official blessing of the Pope. The Seventh, Eighth and Ninth Crusades resulted in Mamluk and Hafsid victories, as the Ninth Crusade marked the end of the Crusades in the Middle East.

[fmrcurter]

I really think you need to crack open a few old world history books before you spout off anything about the Crusades. You'll be surprised to know that the Muslims and Jews fought side-by-side in Jerusalem to fend off the Franks in 1099.

Here's a brief brush ......

Ditto to you.
Research the Holy Land and the history of it. You will be surprised to see there is more to this than just Jerusalem.

After the death of the Islamic prophet Muhammad in 632, Muslim armies swept out of Arabia and, under the banner of jihad, conquered the lands that now form the heart of the Islamic world. In the Holy Land, the conquest of Jerusalem in 638 stood at the beginning of centuries of Muslim aggression; Christians in the Holy Land faced an escalating spiral of persecution. A few examples: early in the eighth century sixty Christian pilgrims from Amorium were crucified; around the same time the Muslim governor of Caesaria seized a group of pilgrims from Iconium and had them all executed as spies - except for a small number who converted to Islam. Muslims demanded money from pilgrims, threatening to ransack the Church of the Resurrection if they didn’t pay. Later in the eighth century, a Muslim ruler banned displays of the cross in Jerusalem. He also increased the special poll tax (jizya) that Christians had to pay (Muslims were exempt) as ordained by Qur’an 9:29, and forbade Christians to engage in religious instruction of their own children and fellow-believers.
Brutal subordination and violence became the rule of the day for Christians in the Holy Land. In 772, the caliph al-Mansur ordered Christians and Jews in Jerusalem to be stamped on their hands with a distinctive symbol. Conversions to Christianity were dealt with particularly harshly. In 789, Muslims beheaded a monk who had converted from Islam and plundered the Bethlehem monastery of St. Theodosius, killing many more monks. Other monasteries in the region suffered the same fate. Early in the ninth century the persecutions grew so severe that large numbers of Christians fled for Constantinople and other Christian cities. Fresh persecutions in 923 saw more churches destroyed, and in 937, Muslims went on a rampage in Jerusalem on Palm Sunday, plundering and destroying the Church of Calvary and the Church of the Resurrection.
After a period of Byzantine resurgence, in 1004, the sixth Fatimid Caliph, Abu ‘Ali al-Mansur al-Hakim (985-1021) turned violently against the faith of his Christian mother and uncles (two of whom were Patriarchs) and ordered the destruction of churches, the burning of crosses, and the seizure of church property. He moved against the Jews with similar ferocity. Over the next ten years thirty thousand churches were destroyed, and untold numbers of Christians converted to Islam simply to save their lives. In 1009, al-Hakim gave his most spectacular anti-Christian order: he commanded that the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem be destroyed, along with several other churches (including the Church of the Resurrection). The Church of the Holy Sepulcher, rebuilt by the Byzantines in the seventh century after the Persians burned an earlier version, marks the traditional site of Christ’s burial. Bizarrely, the church had served as the model for the Al-Aqsa Mosque. The Caliph al-Hakim commanded that the tomb inside be cut down to the bedrock. He ordered Christians to wear heavy crosses around their necks (and Jews heavy blocks of wood in the shape of a calf). He piled on other humiliating decrees, culminating in the order that they accept Islam or leave his dominions.
The erratic caliph ultimately relaxed his persecution and even returned much of the property he had seized from the Church. Some of al-Hakim’s changed attitude probably came from his increasingly tenuous connection to Islamic orthodoxy. In 1021, he disappeared under mysterious circumstances; some of his followers proclaimed him divine and founded a sect based on this mystery and other esoteric teachings of a Muslim cleric, Muhammad ibn Isma’il al-Darazi (after whom the Druze sect is named). Thanks to al-Hakim’s change of policy, which continued after his death, in 1027 the Byzantines were allowed to rebuild the Church of the Holy Sepulcher.
Nevertheless, Christians were in a precarious position and pilgrims remained under threat. In 1056, the Muslims expelled three hundred Christians from Jerusalem and forbade European Christians from entering the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. When the fierce and fanatical Seljuk Turks swept down from Central Asia, they enforced a new Islamic rigor making life increasingly difficult for both native Christians and pilgrims (whose pilgrimages they blocked). After they crushed the Byzantines at Manzikert in 1071 and took the Byzantine Emperor Romanus IV Diogenes prisoner, all of Asia Minor was open to them - and their advance was virtually unstoppable. In 1076, they conquered Syria; in 1077, Jerusalem. The Seljuk Emir Atsiz bin Uwaq promised not to harm the inhabitants of Jerusalem, but once his men had entered the city, they murdered 3,000 people. The same year the Seljuks established the sultanate of Rum (Rome, referring to the New Rome, Constantinople) in Nicaea, perilously close to Constantinople itself; from here they continued to threaten the Byzantines and harass the Christians all over their new domains.
The Christian Empire of Byzantium, which before Islam’s wars of conquest had ruled over a vast expanse including southern Italy, North Africa, the Middle East, and Arabia, was reduced to little more than Greece. It looked as if its death at the hands of the Seljuks was imminent. The Church of Constantinople considered the pope a schismatic and had squabbled with him for centuries, but the new Emperor Alexius I Comnenus (1081-1118), swallowed his pride and appealed for help. And that is how the First Crusade came about: it was a response to the Byzantine Emperor’s call for help. http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Persec...of_non-Muslims

[casinobonbone]

Aahh what we have here is a wikii authority. yupe. Plus, someone who can't read what I said about the crusades in the first place.........geesh, some people's children...go to bed now junior!

[Smittoh]

Just reviewing a few of the militia forums tonight and seems like everyone is checking the wood piles for "rats" and the ammo is being counted.

Sounds like all went on alert. Interesting since there are several State Militia groups who were form as a result of several actions in the course of America's history.

Be interesting to see what comes out of this group trial since most Michigan people pride themselves on their individual rights.

[abOfU9nJ]

I thought you were an Atheist? Ever hear of the Crusades, and Christians killing in the name of Christ? Ever hear of posting a link to your "News". Of course you have, and I have started following this particular story. Killing is a crime, unless it is in self defense, or defense of the helpless, or sanctioned by the Government. However, Militia's are covered as part of the Second Amendment, not to overthrow the Government or Constitution, but to allow people to prepare to defend our Country from Tyranny. It has nothing to do with what we now know as the "National Guard". Many Militia's help their communities as First Responders, Volunteer Fire Departments, even Law Enforcement. So if we want to paint them all with a big brush as a bunch of inbred hillbillies who hate the Government, I would say we were missing the mark.

Nope, I'm Agnostic. Also, never did say anything against militias in general, as I believe the other group mentioned in the news (which is on MSNBC, Fox, and CNN to name a few in almost the exact same form) did the right thing in cooperating with the FBI and not allowing the militants to hide out at their home during the raid. They have a purpose, but that purpose is not what many are trying to prepare for. As you said, its "defence of our Country from Tyranny". Like it or not, what our government is doing is not tyranny. There are provisions provided in the makeup of the government to remove all the problem people. But nobody exercises them (voting them out, eh?). Nobody stands up to take their place, as there's more money to be made speaking loudly and carrying a feather (Palin) than doing as the quote originally goes.

Just reviewing a few of the militia forums tonight and seems like everyone is checking the wood piles for "rats" and the ammo is being counted.

Sounds like all went on alert. Interesting since there are several State Militia groups who were form as a result of several actions in the course of America's history.

Be interesting to see what comes out of this group trial since most Michigan people pride themselves on their individual rights.

Good for Michigan, when you threaten the lives of other people, in particular those who are there for the protection of the people and their rights, guess what? YOU LOSE THOSE RIGHTS.

Bring back harsher minimum punishments across the board. Enough PC "we don't want to inconvience them" bullshit.

[vvxtiopmx]

Nope, I'm Agnostic. Also, never did say anything against militias in general, as I believe the other group mentioned in the news (which is on MSNBC, Fox, and CNN to name a few in almost the exact same form) did the right thing in cooperating with the FBI and not allowing the militants to hide out at their home during the raid. They have a purpose, but that purpose is not what many are trying to prepare for. As you said, its "defence of our Country from Tyranny". Like it or not, what our government is doing is not tyranny. There are provisions provided in the makeup of the government to remove all the problem people. But nobody exercises them (voting them out, eh?). Nobody stands up to take their place, as there's more money to be made speaking loudly and carrying a feather (Palin) than doing as the quote originally goes.


Good for Michigan, when you threaten the lives of other people, in particular those who are there for the protection of the people and their rights, guess what? YOU LOSE THOSE RIGHTS.

Bring back harsher minimum punishments across the board. Enough PC "we don't want to inconvience them" bullshit.

No one is faster than Seasons to throw away rights or take the word of the government. One of the detainees in the raids, "Pale Horse," who was enlisted Army, said last August on the Alex Jones channel that the feds would "try to plant a pipe bomb on me." Now it happens.

TheAlexJonesChannel August 17, 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rglWdkYlSPg

PDF of Idictment with "Pale Horse" as defendant D8
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/se.../0329stone.pdf

Set-up? Maybe maybe not. But whatever you do don't question the government. If no one did, Brandon Mayfield would still be rotting in jail with Seasons cheering on if the Spanish government itself hadn't stepped in and said they had the wrong guy. The feds acccussed him in the Madrid bombings and said the fingerprint was "100% verified." But judge Ann Aiken's said afterwards the information was largely "fabricated and concocted by the FBI and DOJ."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Mayfield

Or try Louis Greco in Boston who spent 15 years in jail and died there for a crime he did not commit, whose family was awarded part of a $100 million settlement last year. Greco was a World War II double Bronze Star, framed for murder. Judge Nancy Gertner said the FBI "encouraged perjury, and helped frame" four men for murder in the largesrt settlement in history.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...rongful26.html

Gertner said "No lost liberty is dispensable. We have fought wars over this principle. We are still fighting these wars."

Whatever you do, don't question the government, which is keeping us "safe," always believe Big Brother, repeat, you are getting sleepy, sleepy...

[Meowmeowz]

*yawn*

You're so full of shit sometimes, Ralphie. Now, where did I ever say "never question the government"?

What you're responding to is my reaction based upon the information available. This "Pale Horse" fellow can say whatever he wants. Are you saying that the ex-Marine convicted of killing his girlfriend could've said "they are gonna plant a gun on me" and you'd take his word for it? The man was probably trying to cover his ass in case he got caught.

Its funny that all you do is question, Ralphie, to the point at which if a government operated weather station told you it was raining, you'd stand outside in the downpour for hours trying to prove it isn't.

Your problem is you never question. If the government said the best grass was on the other side of that cliff you "baaa!" your way right over it, like a good little sheeple. But I love it when you call me Ralphie (wink).

[yatrahnualenu]

*yawn*

You're so full of shit sometimes, Ralphie. Now, where did I ever say "never question the government"?

What you're responding to is my reaction based upon the information available. This "Pale Horse" fellow can say whatever he wants. Are you saying that the ex-Marine convicted of killing his girlfriend could've said "they are gonna plant a gun on me" and you'd take his word for it? The man was probably trying to cover his ass in case he got caught.

Its funny that all you do is question, Ralphie, to the point at which if a government operated weather station told you it was raining, you'd stand outside in the downpour for hours trying to prove it isn't.

[enrisaabsotte]

Good for Michigan, when you threaten the lives of other people, in particular those who are there for the protection of the people and their rights, guess what? YOU LOSE THOSE RIGHTS.Bring back harsher minimum punishments across the board. Enough PC "we don't want to inconvience them" bullshit.

Just remember the charges were filed, arrests made, and the TRIAL has yet to start. Let's first see how this plays out before patting ourselves on our backs. I have a feeling that a few of the charges will be dismissed for some reason or another.

[HsSp82U8]

Your problem is you never question. If the government said the best grass was on the other side of that cliff you "baaa!" your way right over it, like a good little sheeple. But I love it when you call me Ralphie (wink).

You really have a problem paying attention, plenty of us here (Seasons included) question the government, and politicians, political movements, a great deal...just because we dont jump on the ether-train to Ralphy-land does not mean that people who disagree with you never question.

They just have enough sense to know you are full of crap.

[sanddrareyk]

Just remember the charges were filed, arrests made, and the TRIAL has yet to start. Let's first see how this plays out before patting ourselves on our backs. I have a feeling that a few of the charges will be dismissed for some reason or another.

Probably some for plea bargains. Which start to get ridiculous when you think of how many terrible crimes get minimal sentences just cause the guy confessed when the evidence was already solid enough to convict.