[jeaccatty]

How can we possibly show love if we constantly say, I can't participate with you because I am Orthodox or because I am fasting?

Just last week, we had a visiting hieromonk, who was very adamant about the necessity, when traveling, to eat what you are served without objection or fuss. As an example, he said, that if he were offered a steak while on his trip, he would eat it (whether or not it was a fast day and regardless of the fact that he is a monastic and therefore never eats meat). This, he said is a simple rule of accepting hosptiality in love which is more important than legalistically keeping to a rule.

And I must say that Fr N is not a "modernist" or "liberal" by anyone's definition. Having known him personally for few years and knowing his family for many more than that, there is no way that he would even suggest compromising on matters of the faith.

Thus if an Orthodox Christian were visiting family (or anyone else for that matter) on a fasting day, he should eat what is served without even the hint of protest.

Fr David Moser

[Enjknsua]

Fr. David,

If you please, I gladely accept what you say here as I love a good t-bone any day of the week, but how does breaking our fast to those who are "watching" us show to them we are serious about our faith? If something as simple as food is set aside just beause it is put in front of us, how more easily are all the other faith practises we have put aside? How do I tell them I can eat your steak, but I can't take your communion? This seems contradictory.

With any meal, there is usually, always lenten dishes served (unknowningly) by the host. I was more supporting eating these items and perhaps pushing around with my fork the nonlenten parts of the meal so as to not be so obvious I was not eating them.

I can't see telling my host I love you, I'll eat your nonlenten food anyway. (of course this would never come out of my mouth) Whenever I go to family who knows I am fasting and they are respectful of it, I get an inner "fear" when they put something nonfasting in front of me. I wonder to myself, do I eat or not? I always do as I am such a glutten and this is an easy excuse to not offend.

Confused

Paul

[immoceefe]

Dear Alice,

Thanks for pointing out that many converts may be because of marriage. It makes sense. But as for Episcopalians, when you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.

[BliliBoopsy]

Dear friends,

I as well have heard of God-bearing monastics who have taught the same thing as you have mentioned, that is, breaking the fast rule when you are a guest and someone offers you a non-lenten meal. The reasoning behind it is that fasting is primarily an ascetic practice which assists in mastering one's passions, thereby fostering obedience and submission to the will of God, which in summation is mercy and love for own's neighbor. Ultimately, the goal is mercy and love for our neighbors. So while following certain dietary practices may be beneficial in terms of spiritual development, if instead it causes scandal and disharmony between loved ones, than it has served little good purpose and becomes instead an impediment rather than a useful tool.

It must be added that breaking the fast for even such a noble reason as to not cause offense to one's neighbor carries with it great risks and invites temptation. What can sometimes happen, (as I know from my own experience), is that the love can be misdirected away from one's neighbor and rather directed towards the passions, so that opportunities are relished and sought after simply as an excuse to slacken our ascetic training and indulge in our own desires. This is why it requires great spiritual discipline to be able to do such a thing. I know that keeping the Nativity fast the day after Thanksgiving is one thousand times more difficult if I ate turkey the day before.

So just as every athlete trains differently according to the measure of their abilities, likewise fasting and the breaking of fasts should be discussed with one's own spiritual father as such a matter such as this heavily involves pastoral guidance and economia.

In Christ,
Antonios

[9mm_fan]

Fr. David,

If you please, I gladely accept what you say here as I love a good t-bone any day of the week, but how does breaking our fast to those who are "watching" us show to them we are serious about our faith? If something as simple as food is set aside just beause it is put in front of us, how more easily are all the other faith practises we have put aside? How do I tell them I can eat your steak, but I can't take your communion? This seems contradictory.

It is pretty simple, but not always easy. Fasting is exercise. Sometimes it is hard to maintain an exercise regime when you are traveling. We must maintain a balance. Some people are better at maintaining their exercise than others. If you can tell your relatives that you are not eating any meat and they have to prepare an entirely different meal for me and are willing to do so that is one thing. But it may mean that they have to go out and buy things they don't normally buy. If you can choose to avoid meat and only eat the vegetables and side dishes, then by all means do so. But if everything on the table has either meat or dairy in it, in some situations saying 'I can't eat your food" can be insulting. And saying "you must accommodate me and my needs" has its own issues. You deal with it as best you can given the situation, and this is merely an acknowledgement that we all deal with situations somewhat differently. Don't be confused. Don't be demanding of anyone except yourself. If accommodations can be made beforehand then by all means make them. If if you find yourself in a situation where there are few choices, make the one that involves mercy and not giving needless offense, letting your conscience and not your pride be your guide.

Does that help?

Herman

[Enjknsua]

Does that help?

Herman

Yes, thank you Herman; but I am still going to eat the t-bone if given the opportunity.

[jeaccatty]

I can't see telling my host I love you, I'll eat your nonlenten food anyway. (of course this would never come out of my mouth) Whenever I go to family who knows I am fasting and they are respectful of it, I get an inner "fear" when they put something nonfasting in front of me. I wonder to myself, do I eat or not? I always do as I am such a glutten and this is an easy excuse to not offend.

Herman did certainly have a good reply to this. This post may not be quite so practically applicable, but let me add a thought. How is it that your host knows you are fasting? If someone invites you to a meal and asks if you have any dietary restrictions, it is quite simple to say, "Oh yes, that is a vegetarian day for me" or something similar. If the host doesn't ask then it is not worth mentioning. In either case it is good simply to accept what is offered without comment or explanation (except, of course, to compliment the chef on a tasty dish!) and with gratitude to God for all that He provides.

My family (not Orthodox) are aware that we do fast, but they don't keep track of what days are fasting and which aren't (and I wouldn't expect them to). Sometimes when we are visiting, they might ask in which case I will say that "yes this is a fasting day" of "no, anything's fine" Most of the time they don't ask or if they do they don't always remember and then I simply accept what I am given, with thanks.

I figure if my keeping the fast is something that is sufficiently significant to them that they ask, well then that's fine but otherwise I don't make an issue of it.

Fr David Moser

[Freeptube]

Paul I did not mean the reply about fasting but about celebrating non-Orthodox feastdays with non-Orthodox families and Christian feasts with non-Orthodox families.

In regards to eating whatever the hosts offers you this is a completely different theme and I totally agree even if they give salt and bread we must eat and not shame our host and put down the hospitality. That's a no-brainer.

But my question was what makes a Protestant/RC family, or friends better than any other kind of family like the ones who are Pagan, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and so on? There is this couple who are very good friends of us. They have gone out of their way to help us and they are so very dear to us. They are Jewish and they have invited us for Passover over the last years. We did not attend (but of course get together during the rest of the year). So are families, or friends who are non-Christian a second class family/friends in comparison to non-Orthodox Christian families? And are we without love because we could not make a non-Orthodox religious dinner?

[Enjknsua]

My family (not Orthodox) are aware that we do fast, but they don't keep track of what days are fasting and which aren't (and I wouldn't expect them to). Sometimes when we are visiting, they might ask in which case I will say that "yes this is a fasting day" of "no, anything's fine" Most of the time they don't ask or if they do they don't always remember and then I simply accept what I am given, with thanks. Thank you Fr. David. This is my family as well. I'm still going after that t-bone though.

[Anaedilla]

I would just add 1 Corinthians 10:27:
"If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake."

Sbdn. Anthony