[Ltftujkg]

I have to take issue with this Effie.

I think it more proper to say symbolic of what is being told to the people by the media behind the bombing. I will admit I don't now or then know much about the politics, but I do remember being pressed upon us (or at least my understanding) was we were there to bring relief to the poor people by helping them attain a Democratic state. I can't say I remember knowing there were Christians in the middle east so I was always puzzled why we were helping nonchristians but I suppose all people should have a right to vote for their way of living.

I know nothing of the workings of my own government and am sure there are areas I don't want to know about. As much backstabbing as we have within it, I am hard pressed to understand how we get anything accomplished.

Now I know more about Orthodoxy and where we come from and where we need help, I am much more sympathetic to their plight. As much as people do not like President Bush right now, I fear future presidents will have less sympathy for and a propensity for more destruction outside US soil. I bow my head in shame for this as this is my country. But please believe the government is not necessarily representative of its people. We are vicitims of our liberal media.

Paul

Paul, there is absolutely no need to apologize for anything. If we all personally took responsibility for what our governments did, then none of us could hold our heads up high. After World War II when Greece and other countries in Europe were trying to recover, the wonderful people of the US dug deep into their pockets and saved many lives. These are the real people of the US and these are the people that I admire.

[soonahonsefalh]

Paul, the media and the people behind the bombing - and the people behind them - are all pursuing the same agenda. If the US really were promoting democracy in the world, things would be very different. But it is only promoting its hegemony in a thoroughly cynical way, and dressing its motives in the robe of promoting democracy is just the height of hypocracy.

[iroxmxinau]

I don't agree with this sentiment. Whether or not Kosovo is independent really doesn't matter. What matters is that there is peace and harmony, and that the Gospel can be declared there. There is an Albanian Orthodox Church, after all, and it could be quite possible given effort and prayer that the churches which used to have liturgies in Serbian will one day have them in Albanian. Is one really more important? Or does one group have the only "right" to the area? Come on, Serbs and Albanians have lived in the area for centuries. Instead of talking gloomily, we can try to work for something good--that Muslim Albanians will return to their roots in the Orthodox Church.

This would be a good joke, but for us Serbs it is not time to laugh.

That statement about piece and harmony and a Gospel, that looks like Jehovah’s Witness statement.

Furthermore, you don't have a clue what is going on in Kosovo and Metohia, how hard is for Serbs to survive every single day. Not to talk about nonsense that Serbs should shut down Serbian Orthodox Churches, then learn Albanian language and start going to Albanian Orthodox Church.
This is stunning.

[chuecaloversvv]

Needless to say, we (America) would not likely have bombed Serbia had it not been for Milosevic. Not that I am defending it, but let's not forget the person who was a leading cause of the carnage to begin with. Umm. Tounge in cheek here, but unless you REALLY know what you're talking about, say if you were actually IN THE COUNTRY since 1992 when Serbs were attacked by both Muslim Slavs and Roman Catholic Croats, solely based on their religion, I think it a little unfair for you to make those type of statements. Milosevic was NOT a good guy, but he was the leader of a country in a time of war. Bad things happen, and war is terrible terrible thing. But don't make assumptions based on what you saw on the one-sided and amazingly biased American media.

Coming from someone who knows. SERIOUSLY.

In Christ,
Tessa

[chuecaloversvv]

Mark 13:14-23

14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

[Freeptube]

Needless to say, we (America) would not likely have bombed Serbia had it not been for Milosevic.

Ok let's bomb Cuba too. Oops too late, the bad guy just resigned today.

Owen, I do not think America bombed Serbia. I do not think that God will tell all Americans during the Second Judgment "Why did you bomb Serbia?" Or maybe He will tell that. I do not know. What I know is that because there are bad guys we do not have to just nuke the entire country, or bomb the entire country. And I hope you know that Milosevic is dead now. But do not involve the entire America in the bad things that happen in the world, because I have met some of the most wonderful people ever in this country.

And the glorious days of Serbia are not over actually, as you seem to say. In the pain Serbia is ever more glorious since they are being glorified in Heaven from the pain they are going through.\

Andreas, I do not think Europe and the countries therein are 'oh so saintly'.

I would not blame the fault on governments. The fault is on me we should say. If I was not such a horrible sinner, there would have been much good in this world. Also if I were to become a saint maybe the people who execute the bad things would be deterred. Same as it happened with the Martyrs and the executioners. How many times the executioners, or the persecutors converted to Christianity because of the saints/martyrs and because their heart of course was opened to God? The one to blame is Satan.

[CIAFreeAgent]

Needless to say, we (America) would not likely have bombed Serbia had it not been for Milosevic. Not that I am defending it, but let's not forget the person who was a leading cause of the carnage to begin with.

Owen, that just isn't so. Milosevic was bad enough news, but he was no monster -- and he did no worse than Serbia's enemies were doing. The fact is, everybody involved in that early '90s chaos has war crimes on their hands, including the United States. Serbia has been made the scapegoat, that's all. And, for the record, I am not a Serb, I am not in a Serbian jurisdiction, and I have no close Serbian connections of any kind ...

[chuecaloversvv]

The fact is, everybody involved in that early '90s chaos has war crimes on their hands, including the United States. AMIN!

and I have no close Serbian connections of any kind ...
YOU DO NOW, MAN!

In Christ,
Tessa

[immoceefe]

Look, the bombing of Serbia was one of the worst things the U.S. has done since WWII. It was done without Congressional authorization. It was done without UN authorization. It was supposedly a NATO deal. But let's not get into the moral equivalency argument here. Milosevic caused a lot of the problems. He was a communist who then became a nationalist in order to hold onto absolute power. He was a thug. From an American perspective, you have a phony nation to begin with that was only held together through totalitarianism, and when that began to crack, you had people killing each other right and left. "Bosnia" is likely to blow up again, and a lot of Americans believe we were suckered into it by the Europeans who often want us to do their dirty work for them. As for ORthodoxy, 99% of the American people have never heard of Orthodoxy and are clueless, absolutely clueless, that that even is in issue. As for the so-called Muslims in the region, they hired a high powered public relations firm on Madison Avenue which convinced Congress and the American people that they were the victims. And Americans love to come to the aid of victims. These are all factors in the equation. As for the future, Americans are not going to get involved militarily anymore in the region, at least we are not going to get involved in any more shooting. And the Serbian Orthodox are going to have to deal with the fact that migration has taken over in Kosovo. It's not the same place it was 500 years ago. If they were really smart, they would fund an American documentary team to come over and do a very high quality documentary on the problem, and show it repeatedly on American cable TV, instead of whining -- do something smart to effect public opinion. I met with a number of Serbs in the U.S. who told me there was going to be a war in Kosovo that would make Bosnia look tame by comparison, and when I suggested a documentary, I got blank stares. It's like, gee, if we actually did something positive, we wouldn't be able to whine and complain anymore.

[biannaruh]

Alec, let's not forget Milosevic's rally in 1989 at Kosovo Pole on the 600th anniversary of the Serbian defeat by the Ottomans. Many were of this opinion after Marshall Tito's death in 1980: "Give it ten years at the most before the region will tear itself apart again". A bitter prediction, but sadly accurate. It has never taken much for the Balkans to break out into violence over the centuries ..... and will continue to do so until each generation stops teaching their hatreds to their children. This, to me, is the only lasting way out of the perennial cycle of violence and misery in the region, or in any other part of the world where ethnic, tribal, religious strife is rife.

[xochex]

There is many Albanian muslims in greece also 90percent of F.y.r.o.m is Albanian so what then.
Get enough heads in parliarments of countries and declare independence its a load of rubbish Greece is clearly under threat fromTurkish rule and it seems to me there is a big plan by USA government to help muslim Albania which is alies with Turkey to populate the Balkan region with muslims like they have Cyprus, and eventualy attack orthodox people and eradicate our faith.

My comments are not towards American people but the gorvernment.

God Bless our Orthodox brothers and all humanity for we are Gods children.

[Ltftujkg]

Mark 13:14-23

14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

Thank you for posting the above, Tessa. I can only repeat what I have already said - May God help us all. This outright disregard for the UN in the last few years, when it's decisions go against economical interests, means that world safety has entered a new phase. If we don't like what the UN decides then we just ignore it and do what we want.

According to international law, Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence on Sunday was an illegal action. It violates UN Security Resolution 1244 (1999).

"United Nations
(est. 1945). President Franklin D. Roosevelt foresaw the need for “Four Policemen”—the United States, the Soviet Union, Britain, and China (France was added later)—to order the post–World War II world and repel all attempts at aggression and violence."


No country is safe, no matter how far away from the area of conflict. This is something that some countries ignore, feeling that distance provides safety. A Pandora's box has been opened in the Balkans. Thaci and his kind are financed partially by the gains of evil - drugs, white slavery, and gun running. This is the kind of government that is now considered suitable and that is recognized as being worthy of being recognized.


The above is nothing new, but the fact that this has now happened in our own backyard, and in an area where emotions run high, and the people are famed for their courage and love of country, means that a fire has been lit that will be very difficult to put out. But, perhaps, this is precisely the goal of those who wanted what happened on Sunday.

In addition to fanatical Muslims wanting their "greater Albania" , not the least of our worries is the fact that the few number of Orthodox monasteries remaining, and which at present are being guarded by UN forces, will surely be attacked again, just as they were in the past.

[soonahonsefalh]

Kosovo. It's not the same place it was 500 years ago. Nor is it the same place it was 37 years ago; in 1971, the Albanians were 67% of the population, not the 95% they are now.

[ronaldasten]

It is a shame for the countries who recognize the Kosovo as an independent state.

Shame on those who were willing to fulfil the expectations by some criminals initiated to have free space for their criminal businesses. The first money these terrorist made by plundering orthodox churches way off in the countryside, that they invested in weapons and drugs, and the money that way earned was invested in a terrorist organization called UCK, which sets the 'president'.

They started to waggle the people up and took for granted that the central government wouldn't allow them to do so. For they were already an autonomic province in Serbia at that time. So they started violence and took the many dead on both sides as a little price for achieving their goals.

It is a shame how so many can be so blind, knowing the facts and still be on the side of these terrorist separatists. They will come to ask for more!

It is a shame, and not even the state of Albania want to have them!

In Christ, Nicolaj

[Freeptube]

Owen what you say:

As for the so-called Muslims in the region, they hired a high powered public relations firm on Madison Avenue which convinced Congress and the American people that they were the victims. And Americans love to come to the aid of victims. These are all factors in the equation. As for the future, Americans are not going to get involved militarily anymore in the region, at least we are not going to get involved in any more shooting. And the Serbian Orthodox are going to have to deal with the fact that migration has taken over in Kosovo. It's not the same place it was 500 years ago. If they were really smart, they would fund an American documentary team to come over and do a very high quality documentary on the problem, and show it repeatedly on American cable TV, instead of whining -- do something smart to effect public opinion. I met with a number of Serbs in the U.S. who told me there was going to be a war in Kosovo that would make Bosnia look tame by comparison, and when I suggested a documentary, I got blank stares. It's like, gee, if we actually did something positive, we wouldn't be able to whine and complain anymore.

So they trust more in God. So what is the problem here? Whoever trusts Madison Avenue will find what they trust [although I do not wish that] and whoever trusts in God will find whatever they trust.

Listen also to what Andreas says because he is right:

Nor is it the same place it was 37 years ago; in 1971, the Albanians were 67% of the population, not the 95% they are now.

[Ltftujkg]

Nor is it the same place it was 37 years ago; in 1971, the Albanians were 67% of the population, not the 95% they are now.

One explanation for the above Andreas, is that Muslims have a lot of children, and also that a lot of Albanians, mostly relatives of those already living in Kosovo, migrated to Kosovo because of the desire to escape the strictest communist regime in Europe.

Something else that people might not know is that German troops had to protect the Serbs from the Albanians in Kosovo during WWII. The Albanians were German allies and took the opportunity to do some ethnic cleansing of their own - where was that woman from CNN then???? - and while in other parts of Servia the Yugoslavs were one of the strongest, if not the bravest and strongest resistance fighters against their German occupiers, their women and children had to be protected from the Albanians by their enemies. Quite ironic - I don't think anything similar has happened in other countries. During the NATO bombing, by the way, both American and Canadian WWII veteran associations strongly protested the bombing of a former ally, but to no avail. After all, what influence do former soldiers who have risked their lives for their country have? None.

What can we do? We can pray. Prayer is a powerful tool and if it is God's will, people will wake up, think for themselves for a change, and realize what is really happening in the world today.

Surely there are still some upright and moral men amongst these politicians, men who believe in God and in justice.

[JessiPollo]

Dear friends,

We've kept this thread open a little longer than we might, given that it is a major happening in the world, and significant. However, despite that significance in its own right, discussion of the political goings-on in Kosovo really isn't within the scope of this Discussion Community, and so I'm going to wrap up the thread, with thanks to all who have contributed.

INXC, Dcn Matthew