[AndyPharmc]

The BBC News website yesterday reported on a survey which suggests that 20 million people (42%) in the UK pray regularly, and 9 million (nearly 17%) pray every day. This seems encouraging at first, but it is not matched by church attendance which continues to fall. Which of two possible conclusions may be right? People have faith but are put off church because the Churches are not meeting their needs. Or, as one Christian leader said, the results of the survey merely show that the 'me generation' wants everything , even Christianity, to be on its terms, and faith is fine so long as no commitment is involved such as going to church. The Secular Society gleefully points out that the survey results show that the majority of people do not pray.

[immoceefe]

And the responses to these kinds of surveys are suspect at best. Church attendance surveys are typically off by a factor of 2x.

[acceraStoof]

The BBC News website yesterday reported on a survey which suggests that 20 million people (42%) in the UK pray regularly, and 9 million (nearly 17%) pray every day. This seems encouraging at first, but it is not matched by church attendance which continues to fall. Which of two possible conclusions may be right? People have faith but are put off church because the Churches are not meeting their needs. Or, as one Christian leader said, the results of the survey merely show that the 'me generation' wants everything , even Christianity, to be on its terms, and faith is fine so long as no commitment is involved such as going to church. The Secular Society gleefully points out that the survey results show that the majority of people do not pray.

I don't trust surveys that much, but we should remember that people pray for many reasons. A lot of them pray when they want something, health, money, etc. Prayer should be hidden and not made a spectacle of - if I had been asked I would have replied "no comment". Perhaps a lot of the people who were asked didn't want to reply.


"And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

But you, when you pray go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is on the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.
Matthew 6:5-6"

Effie

[AndyPharmc]

Yes, as Disraeli said, there are lies, damned lies - and statistics!

[acceraStoof]

The BBC News website yesterday reported on a survey which suggests that 20 million people (42%) in the UK pray regularly, and 9 million (nearly 17%) pray every day. This seems encouraging at first, but it is not matched by church attendance which continues to fall. Which of two possible conclusions may be right? People have faith but are put off church because the Churches are not meeting their needs. Or, as one Christian leader said, the results of the survey merely show that the 'me generation' wants everything , even Christianity, to be on its terms, and faith is fine so long as no commitment is involved such as going to church. The Secular Society gleefully points out that the survey results show that the majority of people do not pray.

Andreas, I found the following article that seems to be connected to the above, although the author takes the whole thing one step further and says that 42% of the people polled consider religion to be harmful. Harmful for whom? Perhaps for certain governments which are slowly eroding the freedoms we enjoy and want us to be even more subservient that we already are. Religion means freedom. It means that we recognize only God as our leader and it means that we will fight for this freedom as our saints did in the past.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle2368534.ece

"The YouGov poll commissioned by John Humphrys, the broadcaster and writer, found that 42% of the 2,200 people taking part considered religion had a harmful effect.

“One reason might be the publicity attracted by a handful of mad mullahs and their hate-filled rhetoric,” writes Humphrys in his new book, In God We Doubt, an extract of which appears in today’s Sunday Times News Review.

Only 16% of those polled called themselves atheists; 28% believed in God; 26% believed in “something” but were not sure what; and 9% regarded themselves as agnostics - like Humphrys himself, who had a religious upbringing in Wales but calls himself a “doubter”. "

So sad! But everyone has a right to his own opinion. Some people even say that those who believe in God are self-delusional. What do these people believe in? What is the opposite of believing in a benevolent higher power? Perhaps, believing in nothing. Believing in nothing means what? That you are nothing, you came from nothing, you will return to nothing, so laugh, have fun, spend as much as you can, think of no-one but yourself, ruin our beautiful planet, bloody your hands with the deaths of millions of children who have died of starvation just so that you can stuff yourself with food that you don't really want or enjoy. No thank you!

[amberamuletuk]

You know what has ALWAYS bothered my about surveys and Polls... NO one ever, ever surveys me or polls me! How can any survey/poll result be complete when my opinon is left out?!

I find this to be quite annoying, and a major weakness in all surveys/polls.

In Christ,
Mary.

[Seiblybiozy]

Only 16% of those polled called themselves atheists; 28% believed in God; 26% believed in “something” but were not sure what; and 9% regarded themselves as agnostics - like Humphrys himself, who had a religious upbringing in Wales but calls himself a “doubter”. " Dear Effie,

That's only 79%. What does that make the other 21%? Orthodox?

[acceraStoof]

You know what has ALWAYS bothered my about surveys and Polls... NO one ever, ever surveys me or polls me! How can any survey/poll result be complete when my opinon is left out?!

I find this to be quite annoying, and a major weakness in all surveys/polls.

In Christ,
Mary.

Completely agree Mary.

Effie

[popsicesHoupe]

That's only 79%. What does that make the other 21%? Orthodox?

I dug up the website for the outfit that ran the survey. The full percentages are:

22% - I believe in a personal God who created the world and hears my prayers
6% - I believe in a God who created everything but then left us to get on with it
26% - I believe in ‘something’ but I’m not sure what
5% - I would like to believe and I envy those who do, but cannot believe for myself
9% - I am an agnostic. I don’t think it is possible to know if there is God or not
16% - I am an atheist. The whole notion of a supernatural God is nonsense
10% - I’m really not sure what I believe and I don’t give it much thought
3% - Other
3% - Don’t know

Mike

[Jannet.K]

The BBC News website yesterday reported on a survey which suggests that 20 million people (42%) in the UK pray regularly, and 9 million (nearly 17%) pray every day. This seems encouraging at first, but it is not matched by church attendance which continues to fall. Which of two possible conclusions may be right? People have faith but are put off church because the Churches are not meeting their needs. Or, as one Christian leader said, the results of the survey merely show that the 'me generation' wants everything , even Christianity, to be on its terms, and faith is fine so long as no commitment is involved such as going to church. The Secular Society gleefully points out that the survey results show that the majority of people do not pray.

I think the second conclusion is correct. "...the Churches are not meeting their needs" is nonsense. The people are the Churches. If they want more of church, they have to put more into church.

[ronaldasten]

"And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

But you, when you pray go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is on the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.
Matthew 6:5-6"

Effie

Muslims were also included in this praying study! And there are a lot in the UK!
And this quote you bring about praying in a secret darkened back room or cellar, may suit for societies as the Jewish once was, where people prayed openly to get attendance by all.
My Father said to me to do my morning prayers when I didn't do them at home, to do them in the tramway, the tube or on the train when going to my job. So there I have to pray amongst men and although I am afraid every time this happens to me, the Lord never let me down. And most of the people just don't care about this.

About the Me-generation and the things they pray for, I can imagine what this will be but I don't think this is are prayers in a Christian sense! And not at all an orthodox sense!

Christos voskrese! Nicolaj

[gopsbousperie]

Dear Effie,

That's only 79%. What does that make the other 21%? Orthodox?

You probably won't get a direct answer for this question Paul. But it does pay good attention and meaning to words Fear not little flock Luke12:32. Please re-note the word "little".

IC XC
Karena

[acceraStoof]

Muslims were also included in this praying study! And there are a lot in the UK!
And this quote you bring about praying in a secret darkened back room or cellar, may suit for societies as the Jewish once was, where people prayed openly to get attendance by all.
My Father said to me to do my morning prayers when I didn't do them at home, to do them in the tramway, the tube or on the train when going to my job. So there I have to pray amongst men and although I am afraid every time this happens to me, the Lord never let me down. And most of the people just don't care about this.

About the Me-generation and the things they pray for, I can imagine what this will be but I don't think this is are prayers in a Christian sense! And not at all an orthodox sense!

Christos voskrese! Nicolaj

Nicolaj, I frequently pray in public places, especially before getting together with someone for coffee or something. It keeps me focused on the teachings of the Fathers and their instructions on how to behave with other people. But no-one notices because I pray silently. What do you do that attracts attention?
And why are you afraid?

Effie

[acceraStoof]

Dear Effie,

That's only 79%. What does that make the other 21%? Orthodox?

sorry Paul, I just saw your post.

The other 21% are those that say, mind your own business and leave me alone. I don't want to take part in your survey.

[Seiblybiozy]

I read in the Fathers that the verse to "go in your prayer closet and shut the door" is the closet of your heart and mind and the door is your mouth.

So regardless of where you are, you can pray. We are not commanded to pray well, just pray continually.

Paul

[AnimeThat]

I think the second conclusion is correct. "...the Churches are not meeting their needs" is nonsense. The people are the Churches. If they want more of church, they have to put more into church.

I actually think that "Churches are not meeting their needs" is right on the money. The needs are no longer Christian. This weekend there was an article in the Globe&Mail - Canadian national newspapers - about rates of parish closures in Canada (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...obeSportsGolf/). Over thye past decade 10-12% of Catholic, Anglican, United and Presbytarian parishes closed for the lack of support. Last bits of traditional liturgical practices (Anglicans) are being dispatched - "priests" rather engage in exploring spirituality with their flocks. (What this means I once heard on a radio talk-show and it nearly made me vomit). Those that hang on to some sense of tradition do so largely because of historical significance and/or large endowments. There was also a bit there about an Anglican priest in Toronto who to keep his parish afloat conducts "blessing-of-the-animal services" and said he would bless anything presented to him at the liturgy. Very sad.

Yura

[immoceefe]

Yet many of the more demanding protestant churches in America are growing rapidly. Theologically bizarre many of them, yet they demand things of their flock that we do not. The Churches that are in a state of decline are the worldly churches that talk politics a lot, and spend a lot of effort scolding society for its sins, but they never use the "s" word internally. They are smarmy in their attitude of moral superiority.

The concept of the Church not meeting our needs can be interpreted a number of ways. In the Way of the Pilgrim, the man goes on a pilgrimage because the Church is not meeting his needs. I need a good kick in the rear, frequently. The Church should call us to a state of sorrow for our sins, should goad us into a strong desire to repent and to change our sinful ways, should teach us how to practice the virtues, and be far less interested in institutional matters.

It is true that many feel good churches are growing in America. But many of them are more demanding of their flock than we are. They push tithing and getting involved in helping the poor. I have a cousin whose protestant (Methodist) church is very involved in a foster parenting program. He is theologically as confused a Christian as I have ever met. But he is extremely attracted to a church that makes demands on him. The Church is meeting his need to serve God in some meaningful way by helping others who are in dire need.

[Asianunta]

But many of them are more demanding of their flock than we are. They push tithing and getting involved in helping the poor. I have a cousin whose protestant (Methodist) church is very involved in a foster parenting program. He is theologically as confused a Christian as I have ever met. But he is extremely attracted to a church that makes demands on him.

Wow! These people must be very humble, because those demands are too much for someone like myself, who likes freedom. God respects individual freedom. And people should not be pressured. Like Geronda Porphyrios advices. He says that even for himself he took this approach because from pressure he said some evil will surface somewhere else.

[acceraStoof]

I actually think that "Churches are not meeting their needs" is right on the money. The needs are no longer Christian. This weekend there was an article in the Globe&Mail - Canadian national newspapers - about rates of parish closures in Canada (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...obeSportsGolf/). Over thye past decade 10-12% of Catholic, Anglican, United and Presbytarian parishes closed for the lack of support. Last bits of traditional liturgical practices (Anglicans) are being dispatched - "priests" rather engage in exploring spirituality with their flocks. (What this means I once heard on a radio talk-show and it nearly made me vomit). Those that hang on to some sense of tradition do so largely because of historical significance and/or large endowments. There was also a bit there about an Anglican priest in Toronto who to keep his parish afloat conducts "blessing-of-the-animal services" and said he would bless anything presented to him at the liturgy. Very sad.

Yura

Yura, the Orthodox Church also has blessings for whatever humans use, even cars. Why is it OK when Orthodox priests do this and sad when Anglican priests do it?

Effie

[AnimeThat]

Yura, the Orthodox Church also has blessings for whatever humans use, even cars. Why is it OK when Orthodox priests do this and sad when Anglican priests do it?

Effie

Effie, perhaps I misinterpreted the article but I understood is as a service for animals (animals are presented at the Liturgy, which is a sacrilege). We do not present animals at the Liturgy and do not bless them in a sense of them being the object of the blessing. When we bless cars, houses, animals, etc the blessing is received by ourselves for God-pleasing use of these things.
If I am wrong on this, somebody please correct me.

In the Lord, Yura